991.2 GTS

[SteveJC]

On the configurator it looks like the Sport Design Package as gone ?, I had noticed that no one else had specified it but thought it added a slightly different look to the rear.
Have to agree with PCCB's Clive.

 

[Gorsh]

Not at all - Clive is a very good mate and has contributed hugely to this forum over the years! (Check out the 997 Technical section!) Don't always agree but that's all part of the fun.[]

Fair enough - I have seen some good posts from Clive too, so I'm sure his contributions are valued.

My problem is that I'm new to 911's trying to get proper valid real life advice to choose options on a new car, and quite frankly he's not helping - he said PDCC was brilliant earlier and would have it above RWS when he didn't know his facts, then a throw away comment about having PCCB's above both those options. He's got a few posts in this thread and quite frankly I don't know what to believe any more - I thought this forum was supposed to help potential owners - not hinder them?
Just a little confusing and not helpful to me trying to learn what's best - but I'm new here and he's not so I suppose I'd better shut up. I will look for advice elsewhere seeing I can't be sure if what is said here is correct and good advice.

 

[Gorsh]

On the configurator it looks like the Sport Design Package as gone ?, I had noticed that no one else had specified it but thought it added a slightly different look to the rear.
Have to agree with PCCB's Clive.

Someone on PH said it's supposed to be available again later in the year - not sure why it's withdrawn, new design coming maybe?

 

[Lancerlot]

Fair enough - I have seen some good posts from Clive too, so I'm sure his contributions are valued.
My problem is that I'm new to 911's trying to get proper valid real life advice to choose options on a new car, and quite frankly he's not helping - he said PDCC was brilliant earlier and would have it above RWS when he didn't know his facts, then a throw away comment about having PCCB's above both those options. He's got a few posts in this thread and quite frankly I don't know what to believe any more - I thought this forum was supposed to help potential owners - not hinder them?
Just a little confusing and not helpful to me trying to learn what's best - but I'm new here and he's not so I suppose I'd better shut up. I will look for advice elsewhere seeing I can't be sure if what is said here is correct and good advice.

Gordon,
When you come on here asking for opinions, you should not be disappointed when you receive them. We all use our cars in different ways. You want to transport your grandchildren. You wanted some input on PDCC and RWS. I said I would have both, but if I had to choose, I would go for PDCC. This was to illustrate it's importance, in my mind, as a road-holding feature.

If you don't have both, then I would drop RWS and go for PCCB's instead. This might have been quite unhelpful to you, but was offered in good faith and I would have hoped it would have been received in the same spirit.
Regards,
Clive

 

[Gorsh]

Gordon,
When you come on here asking for opinions, you should not be disappointed when you receive them. We all use our cars in different ways. You want to transport your grandchildren. You wanted some input on PDCC and RWS. I said I would have both, but if I had to choose, I would go for PDCC. This was to illustrate it's importance, in my mind, as a road-holding feature.

If you don't have both, then I would drop RWS and go for PCCB's instead. This might have been quite unhelpful to you, but was offered in good faith and I would have hoped it would have been received in the same spirit.
Regards,
Clive

Thanks for answering Clive,
I do appreciate opinions given and try to consider them properly. But your opinion that PDCC is more worthwhile than RWS is I'm afraid not a valid point as nobody has driven a 991 with PDCC that didn't also have RWS, so when you can say PDCC is the one to go for it's a nonsense as it can't be ordered without RWS (you don't seem to understand that fact). So what am I supposed to believe when the point you make is not valid? As for PCCB's I know they are excellent but why you would place their importance above comfort and handling for a road car is a puzzle to me - however, I'm not going to argue the point as it is your opinion - but I will say that I definitely don't want or need them as the steel brakes are more than satisfactory for road driving.
Clive - so far as I'm concerned consider yourself on a yellow card!!! (I'm joking of course!)

This thread contains some excellent information and it has been helpful, but from now on it's down to me regarding the options discussed. I may think of something else in due course and come back to ask further specific questions.

I value my membership of PCGB and look forward to following the discussions on this forum in future.

 

[Archied]

I've included where I'm at for my Targa 4 GTS build. (I understand the weakness of the Targa over C2 and C4 models but Im looking for open air driving (have 997 GTS Cabrio) & cabrio just that bit too open for me now.) I tried to keep it under 120k and had in mind a more sporty mini GT theme. On the PDCC issue there is a great youtube video that shows 3 cars at Porsche tracking with various chassis set ups. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPTlryNBn6Y I used that to conclude that I don't need PDCC but will have RWS and PDK. I think RWS and power sterring + makes life easier in the odd tight spot we get ourselves into in town or out and about in the countryside. Seat wise Im still not 100% happy with sports + seats as ill use car for longer trips and in town. So a seat that is somewhat roomier would work for me, alas the configurator cant provide me with that unless I go the leather interior route which as its a GTS I'd prefer not to do. Ideally Id like the 14 way sports seats with the GTS alcantara package. I have not picked the GTS Interior package as I think its too much for more logos etc and double stitch once you consider most will have picked the GTS alcantara package already. Most of all I'm looking forward to having more torque lower down, I know that's not a view or feature the purists prefer and I accept that but even getting the chance to surge more often each day on a daily drive will be fun. For those with parking permits that are priced via emissions , its worth taking a look at the new cars output. My permit will be at least 50% cheaper. Who knew a brand new Porsche GTS would keep those of a greener persuasion happier. Its interesting to note that Porsche think the 991 GTS.2 will be a car bought by a GT3 owner for a more every day drive. What is still on the cusp of being selected? Front axle lift for sure. PASM Sport version is a further 10mm lower than prior GTS PASM. So far I cant see a skid plate for front lip online. I use lift on my other car regularly and at service I looked under the car up on the lift and the rash under the front trim was eye opening. New to forum and think civility and interest in the detail of the cars we own and would like to own is what sets this forum apart.

Total Price*
£ 119,495.00




Exterior Colour GT Silver Metallic U2 £ 801.00


Convertible Top Black 1V £ 0.00


Interior Colour GTS Alcantara® package GW £ 2,298.00


Exterior


ParkAssist (front and rear) with reversing camera 638 £ 689.00
Transmission / Chassis Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250 £ 2,817.00


Power steering Plus 658 £ 179.00


Rear-axle steering 470 £ 1,530.00


Wheels


20-inch 911 Turbo S wheels 449 £ 0.00
Interior


Cruise control 454 £ 219.00
Speed limit display 631 £ 284.00


Automatically dimming mirrors with integrated rain sensor P13 £ 372.00


Sports seats Plus (4-way, electric) P05 £ 0.00


Seat heating 342 £ 320.00


Floor mats 810 £ 122.00


Silver Grey seat belts Exclusive XSH £ 275.00


Interior Carbon


Interior package carbon (including door trim strips) Exclusive EKG £ 482.00
Audio / Comm.


BOSE® Surround Sound-System 9VL £ 963.00

 

[ralphmusic]

Another RWS and PDCC video here

It is an interesting area for me as I have fitted a tuneable active suspension controller to my 981 Cayman, replacing the PASM system.

 

[Monty911]

I do not participate in track days etc. But I must say that the PDCC appears to improve the ride on our poor British roads. I have only tried a 991.1 4s Targa without PDCC against my 991.1 4s Targa, and not back back. I bought the one with PDCC, at a great deal more, but it felt so much better.

i think you need to drive the two back to back.

 

[lowndes]

Personally, I would ditch both of those options in favour of PCCB's. There's no substitute for decent stopping power! []
Regards,

Clive

[FONT=calibri"]Clive
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]I have never managed to get close enough when following you to see if you actually use the brakes or not. [].
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]However, presumably once the pedal force is sufficient to trigger ABS, the stopping effect is much the same as between steel and PCCB, albeit in repeated applications fade with PCCB may be reduced.[FONT=calibri"] [FONT=calibri"]That having been said, Porsche design requirement that braking 60 to 0 has to be done in half the 0-60 time means all models have serious stopping power and some very serious indeed.
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]What I do like about PCCB is reduced unsprung weight, non rusting; minimal dust and in road use a very long life. The downside risk being care needed to avoid damage when removing centre lock wheels.
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]Nick

 

[Gorsh]

[/quote]
[FONT=calibri"]Clive
[FONT=calibri"]I have never managed to get close enough when following you to see if you actually use the brakes or not. [].
[FONT=calibri"]However, presumably once the pedal force is sufficient to trigger ABS, the stopping effect is much the same as between steel and PCCB, albeit in repeated applications fade with PCCB may be reduced.[FONT=calibri"] [FONT=calibri"]That having been said, Porsche design requirement that braking 60 to 0 has to be done in half the 0-60 time means all models have serious stopping power and some very serious indeed.
[FONT=calibri"]What I do like about PCCB is reduced unsprung weight, non rusting; minimal dust and in road use a very long life. The downside risk being care needed to avoid damage when removing centre lock wheels.
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]Nick
[/quote]


I bet some people spend the £5k on them just because they like the yellow calipers! If they were about half that price they might be worth having.

 

[BigCat]

Personally, I would ditch both of those options in favour of PCCB's. There's no substitute for decent stopping power! []
Regards,

Clive

[FONT=calibri"]Clive
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]I have never managed to get close enough when following you to see if you actually use the brakes or not. [].
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]However, presumably once the pedal force is sufficient to trigger ABS, the stopping effect is much the same as between steel and PCCB, albeit in repeated applications fade with PCCB may be reduced.[FONT=calibri"] [FONT=calibri"]That having been said, Porsche design requirement that braking 60 to 0 has to be done in half the 0-60 time means all models have serious stopping power and some very serious indeed.
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]What I do like about PCCB is reduced unsprung weight, non rusting; minimal dust and in road use a very long life. The downside risk being care needed to avoid damage when removing centre lock wheels.
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]Nick

Well I could not have put that better.
My new Carrera 4GTS will have PDCC, RWS and PCCB however (at the moment) I have opted to go with the Standard PASM rather than the Sport PASM with its 20mm reduction and harder springs compared to 10mm. I think our UK roads are so dreadful the additional 10mm reduction and harder suspension would result in a very uncomfortable ride and therefore a big mistake. I said at the moment just in case ??

 

[Lancerlot]

[FONT=calibri"]However, presumably once the pedal force is sufficient to trigger ABS, the stopping effect is much the same as between steel and PCCB, albeit in repeated applications fade with PCCB may be reduced.[FONT=calibri"] [FONT=calibri"]That having been said, Porsche design requirement that braking 60 to 0 has to be done in half the 0-60 time means all models have serious stopping power and some very serious indeed
[FONT=calibri"]What I do like about PCCB is reduced unsprung weight, non rusting; minimal dust and in road use a very long life. The downside risk being care needed to avoid damage when removing centre lock wheels.
[FONT=calibri"] [FONT=calibri"]Nick

Nick,
Stock brake diameters on Carrera S are 380mm and 350mm, whereas PCCB's are 410mm & 390mm, so yes there is an improvement in stopping power. Not only that, but as you will know yourself, PCCB's have a nicer feel, better initial bite and instil greater confidence IMHO - but what do I know? []
Regards,
Clive

 

[unclewinks]

We don't no much do we clive ??
Anyway what's a bit of brake fade amongst friends??

 

[ralphmusic]

Nick,
Stock brake diameters on Carrera S are 380mm and 350mm, whereas PCCB's are 410mm & 390mm, so yes there is an improvement in stopping power. Not only that, but as you will know yourself, PCCB's have a nicer feel, better initial bite and instil greater confidence IMHO - but what do I know? []
Regards,
Clive

Good to hear Porsche is finally fitting reasonably sized iron disks. My late 997GTS had just 330mm fronts and I got through 3 sets in one year's track work.

 

[lowndes]

Nick,
Stock brake diameters on Carrera S are 380mm and 350mm, whereas PCCB's are 410mm & 390mm, so yes there is an improvement in stopping power. Not only that, but as you will know yourself, PCCB's have a nicer feel, better initial bite and instil greater confidence IMHO - but what do I know? []
Regards,
Clive

[FONT=calibri"]Assuming you haven’t run into something solid, and setting aside wind resistance, the main retardation to the vehicle is delivered via the contact patches. Once you have reached their ultimate capacity any amount of braking force exerted on the disc is not going to make any difference. So if steel brakes will lock the wheels then you already have enough pedal power.
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]However how those force messages are delivered through your foot (left or right as the case maybe [] ) is a bit different as between steel and PCCB. Funnily enough one of my main complaints about 991 v 997 TS was that at very low speed it was quite difficult to modulate the PCCB with their 410 rotors, almost overbraked one might say. On the move however with a bit of a head of steam PCCB are wonderfully reassuring in their progressiveness and consistency. We seem to be in complete agreement on that.
[FONT=calibri"]
[FONT=calibri"]The other unspoken corollary to all of this is that PTV is busy wearing out your rear discs be they steel or PCCB though the difference is only felt in the wallet. []

 

[Archied]

I was in the local Porsche dealer here in the USA and they had next to each other a 991 with PASM and a 991 with PASM Sports. The service manager said the cars came off the same transport but that the car with PASM sports scraped the exit treads when being reversed off the loader. I took 2 quick shots of the wheel profile to show the clearance etc, photos are not well lit but in real life the extra clearance is easily observed. They also had a 918 in classic porsche grey ($65,000 option) and 3 911R's. I sat in the various seats and sports plus was the best for me so I'm glad I've put that to bed now. Service manager had just finished with a client who has ongoing issues with PCCB squeel on his 991 turbo. Seems its a known porsche issue but not with a ready solution, he told me it was the one downside of the PCCB that some encounter.

 

[Archied]

Here is the 918 and 911R for fun.

On post prior the lava orange car is PASM and the black car PASM Sports.

 

[Lancerlot]

Agree wholeheartedly Nick, ABS is your friend here. PTV wears rear pads (13K miles in my old Turbo S) and with replacement PCC discs at £3k each, regular checks and early pad replacement are advisable. I changed mine at 50% wear.

A downside - PCCB's are noisy and squeal intermittently. Porsche seem more prone than other marques for some reason. But it's a small price to pay for ultimate braking performance. []
Regards,
Clive

 

[Gorsh]

Something different - colour choice.

I may be wasting my time as it's so much a personal choice, but I'd like to know if anyone has got, or has seen a 991 in Graphite Blue. What do you think of it please?
I'm really struggling to 'settle' on a colour, keep changing between Guards, GT Silver and Agate. Other colours are nice, but it's those three I'm dithering over, plus there is a question mark over Graphite Blue. The configurator doesn't show any of these colours properly - Porsche should include all colours in their photo gallery of each model which would give a better idea what they look like.
Gordon.

 

[GJN]

Hi Gordon - colour is a real personal thing, so you have to go with what you like best, below is a link to an article with the first drive of a 991.2 4 GTS. Review is a bit bland, but does have some pictures of the car in graphite blue. My last car was guards red and it was very attractive/striking to look at. Based on the pics below, I'd say it was significantly nicer than the graphite blue, but as noted - personal preference.

The red is stunning, but looks best when gleaming, and in British weather gets dirty quickly. While I love washing the car, with red you need to do it very regularly (which in Scotland meant almost after every use!). I also saw a carmine red car in the flesh next to my last gaurds red car, and while mine was nice - the carmine was really special looking. Best thing to do is go on youtube and look up 991's being delivered/test driven in various colours, this will give you a better indication as the configurator is not the best way to chose. Red also attracts a lot of attention, all positive in my experience. People were always stopping me to ask about the car, and had kids waving etc as it is quite a striking look, particularly with the black. Silver is a bit more subtle but all depends on what you want. Red looks best on a sunny day, but when it's grey/grim outside I always felt it didn't fit quite right. Depends on what you'll use it for.

Hope this helps, choosing is part of the fun!

http://www.pistonheads.co...amp;utm_campaign=Enews Bulletin&utm_content=PHDS - ENews Bulletin (02.02.2017)::Main_1_1&utm_source=20170202