Cayman 718 GPF Failure

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi again Tony,

We have on file a technical ticket sent to a Dealer in response to a P242F ash load exceeded fault on one of our cars.

It asks the Dealer several questions regarding the checks on the memo.

Is the exhaust pressure sensor operating correctly, is the AOS ok, and are there any signs of oil in the intake and exhaust system. The usual service history etc.

It goes on to say this.

The description of the fault code is that the ash load is high, not that the particulate filter is blocked. Has the service history been checked and confirmed that the correct grade engine oil has been used ?.

Alot of our cars have had the warning light come on within the first year of being sold from the Dealers.

When we have investigated we have found that the oil ash % level was not checked on the 111 point check, and when we have asked the question why not, the answer has always been the warning light was not on, so they don't look.

Now, these Dealers are well aware of this fault, and have been for quite a few years.

Its unforgivable that they are aware of a pending fault that will hit these cars that they have just sold, and the repair is not covered on the extended warranty.

And we have also heard from our owners that they were never given a copy of the 111 point check.

Lets remember the importance of this 111 point check, it means the car has no faults when its passed on to the customer, in these cases it was only a nine and a half thousand pound fault.

No excuses, on this one.

We will at some point in the future put this document on the forum with our owners permission, if this miss diagnosis issue continues.

Dave and the team

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Sorry Jeff,

Totally agree

I think we now need to get this to the attention of the top man at Porsche, thats our next goal moving forward.

204 thousand views should open the door

Dave

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Morning all,

I just thought we should share with you all again page 5 in the Repair and Maintenance section of the Porsche PWIS
diagnostic tester.

This is where the adaptation for the differential pressure sensor and GPF should have been.

The only adaptations available are the throttle valve, and turbo VTG, (variable turbine geometry) adjuster 1.

If they had been there, it would have been a very simple job to reset these important emission components.

And Porsche wouldn't have had to replace the very expensive GPF filter that doesn't fix this fault.

Dave

 

[911hillclimber]

Interesting as ever.
Why did the factory 're-design' this filter and issue the new design for volume production as well as replacement of a 'faulty' filter?
Porsche engineers are not thick.
They would try to find the most economical, effective and lowest cost solution to resolve the issue and keep the customer for the present and future.

They must have felt they had resolved things, got it all homologated and issued after testing.

To build a deep line of resistance to engage with the problem must mean there is more to this story.

I hope your efforts will open this up, and get satisfaction for all involved.

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Morning Graham,

We have gathered so much information on this fault over the last 3.5 years proving that these GPF filters are not blocked, its unbelievable that Porsche and their Dealers are still not telling the truth.

Afterall our requests for a simple backpressure check to be carried out, we still have this point blank refusal. How can they get away with this, its a diagnostic check that would confirm if ash was present.

Its absolutely ridiculous that they can continue to say no.

They have admitted this fault was a manufacturing defect on their case number 8000244324. And are still trying to prove that the wrong engine oil, driving style, and service history are the causes of this ash buildup.

Paul's car journey was an absolute disaster for Porsche and their Dealer last year, in their efforts to fix his reoccurring ash fault, they fitted all these parts below.

1. One exchange GPF
2. A new GPF
3. 2 Differential pressure sensors
4. 1 new DME
5. An engine removal looking for internal oil consumption signs, none found
6. 1 new exchange engine fitted
7. 1 new Turbo

And finally an admission from the Dealer they couldn't fix this Ash fault and the Dealer bought back his car.

And finally our 17 cars that have had new modified GPF filters fitted, now have high ash load returning readings that make no sense at all.

The highest we have recorded is 79.85% after only 5 thousand miles covered.

How much more evidence do we need to stop this ridiculous situation.

We have one car on file that covered over 10 thousand miles after the Dealer said it needed replacing. The car was sold, and the car covered a further 5 thousand miles, before it was then replaced under warranty by another Dealer.

If the GPF filter was blocked how could it travel all these miles, simple it wasnt blocked.

Our owners of these cars should not be worrying about this light coming on when their MOT test is coming up.

Dave

 

[Hyla75]

Cyclemotor1958

If I may, the problem you face is not a technical or engineering one, but one of approach and persuasion. You have already assembled a thorough technical case that shows the official Porsche solution does not solve the problem and merely leaves their customers with an unnecesary £8-9k bill to pay. You dont need more technical evidence. Rather, you need to consider how to cut through the layers of inertia and defensiveness of a modern corporate bureaucracy.

Large companies like car manufaturers employ public facing non-technical interfaces in order to 'manage' away as many issues as they can. Think of your typical call centre for a company like BT. These public-facing folks are non-technical, and are in place principally to deflect and defend the company from enquiries and issues that will cost them money to engage with. The OPC network is used by Porsche in a similar fashion; they are staffed in the main by non-technical folks who do not come from engineering backgrounds and are severely limited in what they can and cant do. They're like the person in the call centre you speak to about your internet issues. They can follow scripts and carefully prescribed paths, but are not allowed to deviate from those. No amount of technical IT knowledge about broadband or routers or fibre provision etc is going to get you any further with these folks.

You are in the equivalent position with Porsche. You are trying to get the people at OPCs to go off-script and engage with the technical issues you've identified (eg doing a back-pressure check); they simply aren't going to do that. You need to focus on finding a way to circumvent the OPC and get your issue in front of someone who has the power to address it. Personal contacts with key individuals can do this, as can the spotlight of wider publicity.

Like many others, I applaud your incredible efforts to get to the bottom of this issue. But unfortunately, presenting more technical evidence to the people at OPCs isn't going to move the needle on this. You need to cut through to the folks at Porsche corporate with the power to do something.

Is there anyone amongst the owners you have helped who has experience of large corporates who would be prepared to help you with this?

 

[911hillclimber]

I think the above is a good summary of the balance of this situation today.

Finding the Dept or individual who has both the power AND the inclination to sort it is quite a task, and is the defense tactic in play here.

You would hope that this Club might be in a good position esp with Porsche GB, but this seems a dead-end. (?)
This makes it harder still.
Finding the person in Porsche GB must be the next step?

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Guys

If you remember I put our case to Porsche Stuttgart who passed me back to Porsche GB with a case number.

After many attempts trying to speak to them quoting my case number, they never got back to me.

Its obvious that our information collected over the last 3.5 years, contradicts and challenges their diagnostic protocol.

But our requests to do a backpressure check on these faulty cars is not unreasonable, and their refusal is nothing but an admission that if they did this check it would finally end this miss diagnosis disaster.

Your right regarding the need for more technical information, we don't need any more.

The only thing we are looking into is the adaptation of this ash % value using other diagnostic scanners.

The fact we can do this is a game changer, it confirms a software adjustment can temporary get rid of this software ash, that they insist is real.

I suggest we concentrate on the Dealer experience when this fault becomes a problem.

Afterall is seems the Dealers are being asked not to correctly diagnose this problem even though it costs the owner or Porsche to replace a GPF thats perfectly serviceable.

We will continue to help anyone who contacts us regarding this ash issue, with advice, and guidance, and you never know we might come across something that might put some more weight behind our campaign.

Fingers crossed

Dave

 

[Wrightrubber]

Hi Dave
If you remember, I contacted Porsche Germany when I was getting no help from Porsche GB.
Germany said because I had purchased the car in the UK, they referred me back to Porsche GB, so Germany were just as unhelpful as GB.
I asked for a meeting with someone from the technical team at Reading, a 5 hour round trip for me, only to be told they wouldn't meet with me because they were not customer facing!! They clearly don't want to engage and the club have not helped to facilitate this, which is disappointing!

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Mark

Wow, that seems a very along time ago, If I remember I was going to go with you, but sadly they said no.

I wonder if the Club could arrange with Porsche Technical to look at one of our faulty cars at their Reading workshop and carry out a backpressure check, in their presence.

This would finally prove to them that these modified GPF filters are not required.

Some good news, from the owner of the Boxster 718 that replaced his faulty differential pressure sensor and then adaptated his ash % value to zero.

He used another OBD2 diagnostic scan tool, and we are testing the results, I purchased one the other day, just in case.

He sent me a WhatsApp yesterday, hes touring round Europe and has just travelled 1500 miles, the cars running great and no warning lights on.

He will be checking the ash value at the weekend and will let us know the results.

This is brilliant news, our other three cars that had the ash adaptation done, using diagnostic scan tools, VCDS, Autel and Autologic all managed to get to around 500 miles before the P242F ash warning light came back on at 100%.

The Porsche PWIS diagnostic tester connected to the cars DME, cannot carry out this reset. Because the adaptation of the differential pressure sensor and the GPF are not in the repair and maintenance section.

Can't wait to see my friends ash reading.

Fingers crossed

Dave

 

[911hillclimber]

In the end, is finding a device that will re-set the car the solution?
Owners who are happy to plug-in and correct and Indie specialists alike would have the fix, and Fortress Porsche (in all it's guises) can go forth and sell more hi-tech cars.

Suppose such a re-set could be part of the Service schedule at an Indie, or something done by the owner pre MoT, or simply when the light comes on.

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Graham,

Yes we have already proven that alternative OBD2 scan tools can perform an Ash reset, (adaptation) that lowers the software ash reading which turns off the warning light and message.

This is done without the need to regenerate the GPF filter, which is what the Dealers have been doing for years.

We know from owner information that multiple regenerations have been carried out in there attempts to zero the ash.

Which then results in having to change the engine oil and filter.

This regeneration method to re set ash is mentioned in the internal Porsche memo, after all the other checks have been done.

So the cost of buying a suitable scanner tool is alot less than the Dealers charge to read the code P242F and tell our owners they need to find 9.5K to fit a GPF thats not blocked.

We will also be able to supply the information to carry out the re set, we just need time to find a suitably priced scanner that will do the job.

We will keep you informed has we go along.

Dave

 

[mikeg]

With regard to getting the attention of Porsche at a senior level, two suggestions:

- why not try a very senior person at VAG - executive.office@volkswagen.co.uk
- although the US don't have GPF's presumably the European markets do - have they had the same issues and if so what about contacting Porsche Club Deutschland for some advice on how to escalate ?