Cayman 718 GPF Failure

[Wrightrubber]

Hi Everyone,
I have a 2019 Cayman 718, I have owned it for 13 months and purchased it from a Porsche Dealership as a Porsche Approved Pre-Owned Vehicle with 2 year warranty. I had an engine control fault come up on the dash, I contacted my local OPC and they informed me a long as the message is orange and the car is driving normally everything would be ok and to book it in for them to have a look at it as it was probably a sensor. I booked it in and they called me to tell me it was a PPF or GPF (Petrol Particulate Filter/Gasoline Particulate Filter) failure, they had tried to save it (how, I don't know) but they said it needs replacing at a cost of £5800.00 and it is not covered under warranty. Surely it shouldn't have failed so soon, it's coming up for 4 years old and has covered 17,000 miles. Has anyone else experienced this failure before or can anyone offer some help or advice. Thanks, Mark

 

[COD981]

Assuming it has a full opc service history with no gaps then I would contact porsche gb customer services and request a goodwill contribution, the opc should have really done this on your behalf but

Hope you get a reasonable result

 

[ralphmusic]

Assuming it has a full opc service history with no gaps then I would contact porsche gb customer services and request a goodwill contribution, the opc should have really done this on your behalf but

Hope you get a reasonable result

I am not sure this is correct, is the exhaust system specifically excluded under the approved warranty or is the Centre warranty manager being difficult?

I have had an exhaust back box replaced under warranty (albeit manufacturer 3 year) so I’d expect approved warranty to have the same scope save for the no mods, Porsche service etc conditions.

I’d get a meeting with the Centre warranty manager, they often hide upstairs and message customers through the front of house service reception people. If the warranty manager is able to point to wording that explains why it is not covered, I’d expect the warranty manager to be explaining the lengths they are going to in getting the maximum goodwill payment from Porsche GB.

 

[Scrounger]

WOW. £5800!! I bet there's a big chunk of that labour. Just for info, the GPF and CAT are in the same unit and looking at the cost for the part alone is £2350. You could probably get an indie to do the work for a lot less than the OPC but would then probably invalidate the remainder of your warranty.

I agree with COD981 that a call to Porsche customer services may be worthwhile.

Dan

 

[Scrounger]

I've just had a look at the Porsche approved warranty page, link below

https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/porscheservice/vehicleinformation/approvedwarranty/

and to quote:

The following components are not covered, if they must be repaired or replaced for reasons of ageing or regular wear and tear:

• Wiper blades
• Tyres
• Brake pads and brake discs
• Shock absorber
• Clutch disc and clutch pressure plate
• Drive belt including tensioning guide rails and roller
• Spark plugs
• Batteries
• PDCC reservoir
• Coolant
• All light bulbs (excluding Xenon and LED-lamps)
• All filters, fluids, oils and greases
• However, I would not class a GPF on a car that's only 4 years old with 17k on the clock as suffering from aging or normal wear and tear. GPFs 'should' last somewhere in the region of 100,000 miles and if your car was at 80k for example, then there may be some course for negotiation however, I'd throw it back at the Service manager quoting the page above.

 

[Wrightrubber]

Thank you for the replies. The OPC is trying to negotiate with Porsche GB for a goodwill contribution but this has been going on for over a week now. My argument is that it is not normal wear and tear and it has failed prematurely, like 'Scrounger' has stated the unit should last approx. 100K miles, therefore it needs replacing at no cost to me. I have spoken to several Independents and they inform me they have never changed one. Looks like I might have a battle on my hands, will let you know how I get on!!

 

[Neil Chadwick]

Not sure if it helps, but I know someone that had two exhaust related extended warranty claims on a 981S. Claiming that a GPF is the same as an oil or air filter is ridiculous as its a non-maintenance part. Do you know if it has collapsed/rotted or just wont 'talk' to the car anymore?

 

[Motorhead]

Mark,

Those with diesel engine cars will be aware of the pitfalls of those fitted with particulate filters [ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/diesel-particulate-filters/#:~:text=So%20it%20is%20advised%20that,an%20alternative%20form%20of%20regeneration. ] and the same will apply to petrol engines.

The problems seem to arise when the vehicle is used predominately for short, low speed journeys, and the recommendation is that these should be interspersed with the occasional 30+ minute run at a higher speed to burn-off the accumulated soot. I would guess that your dealer has tried the forced regeneration route, which unfortunately has proved to be unsuccessful, meaning that a replacement GPF is required.

Quite why a GPF isn’t covered by the Extended Warranty when it would seem that a catalytic converter is covered remains a mystery to me [isn’t a cat a type of “filter”?], but who knows with these insurance-based warranties? I think your only course of action is to continue to lobby Porsche GB for a goodwill contribution on the basis that the GPF shouldn’t have failed after only 4-years/17,000 miles, implying a material or manufacturing fault.

Good luck!

Jeff

 

[Wrightrubber]

Hi Neil

Thanks for the reply, the OPC haven't told me the condition so not sure what has happened to it. Porsche GB are currently asking for more information from the OPC.

 

[Wrightrubber]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for the reply, I very rarely use it on short, low speed journeys, if they are classing it as a wear and tear part, then it has had no wear and has failed prematurely. I have spoken with the OPC today and it still hasn't been resolved with Porsche GB. I purchased it in good faith with the peace of mind it had a 2 year warranty!! Regards, Mark

 

[ralphmusic]

Mark,

Those with diesel engine cars will be aware of the pitfalls of those fitted with particulate filters [ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/diesel-particulate-filters/#:~:text=So%20it%20is%20advised%20that,an%20alternative%20form%20of%20regeneration. ] and the same will apply to petrol engines.

The problems seem to arise when the vehicle is used predominately for short, low speed journeys, and the recommendation is that these should be interspersed with the occasional 30+ minute run at a higher speed to burn-off the accumulated soot. I would guess that your dealer has tried the forced regeneration route, which unfortunately has proved to be unsuccessful, meaning that a replacement GPF is required.

Quite why a GPF isn’t covered by the Extended Warranty when it would seem that a catalytic converter is covered remains a mystery to me [isn’t a cat a type of “filter”?], but who knows with these insurance-based warranties? I think your only course of action is to continue to lobby Porsche GB for a goodwill contribution on the basis that the GPF shouldn’t have failed after only 4-years/17,000 miles, implying a material or manufacturing fault.

Good luck!

Jeff

If a catalytic converter is covered, perhaps the warranty document has not been updated recently (last 5+ years) to include them

 

[AndrewCS]

If a catalytic converter is covered, perhaps the warranty document has not been updated recently (last 5+ years) to include them

Aye, the GPF and CAT are a combined, single unit ...

 

[PHB1969]

https://www.whatcar.com/advice/buying/what-is-a-petrol-particulate-filter-and-how-does-it-work/n19953#

This is an extract from the above article:

According to manufacturers, cars with petrol particulate filters shouldn’t need to regularly be driven at higher speeds for short periods like diesels to stop them from getting clogged up with soot.

This is because petrol particulate filters aren’t prone to getting blocked up like diesel particulate filters because petrol engines heat up quicker and run hotter than diesel engines, so more of the soot that’s collected in the filter is burnt off. Additionally, Porsche says that the electronic control units in its cars will detect when soot particles occasionally need to be burned off and automatically increase the exhaust gas temperature to do this.

I looked at buying a diesel Evoque as one of our cars, my wife’s journey to work is c 15 miles each way, so not really far enough to get to temperature to avoid DPF issues (based on what I had read on the Evoque forum). I believe that with the DPF which get blocked, there are 3rd party companies that can “unblock” them— if Porsche don’t support the warranty claim then maybe that would be an option - however like many I don’t see why it wouldn’t be covered.

If the GPF is actually prone to blocking, what I don’t understand is why there is no light / message to tell you that it needs to regen (and why there isn’t an indication that it is getting blocked). I would also be slightly worried regarding my car - it’s low mileage (3600 miles in coming up to 3 years - 2.5 GTS - and I’ve worked from home for the last 3 years!) however most journeys are 40-50 miles minimum and tend to be spirited so hopefully not the type of use that could cause any blockage……but who knows???

 

[Wrightrubber]

Hi PHB1969,

Very interesting, thank you for the information. Regards, Mark

 

[Neil Chadwick]

I do hope they have taken the exhaust off and had a look at it rather than it just being a diagnostic test. As others have said , hard to imagine its a clogged up or collapsed unit in a car of that age unless there is a manufacturing fault. Anyone with a diesel will likely have experience of DPF related issues. I have a 2019 Vauxhall Vivaro van that has registered 3 DPF linked faults so far with none of them actually being the DPF on inspection. Usually a sensor.

Also , on my 4.0GTS the cat is heated on start up for a couple of minutes , presumably to help the GPF , do the Turbo cars have the same feature?

Neil

 

[Ryan9729]

Well this is really rubbish of Porsche I must say, I've always had reservations on the PPF/GPF on cars but thought the higher temperatures and cleaner burn would alleviate some of the issues commonly seen on Diesel engines. It's well known that PPF/GPFs are not good for engines (and not just the sound) but the 4.0 NA engines constantly pull ignition timing due to the restriction of the filters and the ECU strategy to keep them 'happy', once removed even with no tuning (except to turn off the PPF function) this increases the power output by c20-30WHP and the ECU will no longer pull timing.

This would be further exasperated on a turbo car, the ECU has two strategies at odds with one another, one for quick spool and maximum performance the other to keep the PPF happy, the reduced flow with also adversely affect the spool of the turbo too.

So what am I getting at, if push comes to shove and there is no recourse from the OPC what I would do it get a fabricator to open the system, remove the filter, close it back up and then switch off the monitoring system. I know this will invalidate the warranty, but how good is it anyway!? It'll also be quite a bit cheaper.

I do hope you get the resolved the right way though and that being Porsche admitting this is not a wear item and should be replaced under warranty, keep us all updated.

Good Luck!

 

[Wrightrubber]

Thank you Ryan, will keep you posted!

 

[Ryan9729]

Another option could be getting the OPC to contribute to a used GPF/OPF, there are plenty about around the £1200 mark. They are not normally a service item so could be worth an ask.

 

[Wrightrubber]

Another possibility, thanks Ryan.

 

[Wollemi]

That’s really bad news

the only thing I have heard of in relation to GPF failure is if the wrong specification oil is used. Cars without GPFs use Porsche A40 spec oil (Eg Mobil One Gold Top). GPF equipped cars use C40 spec oil (eg Mobil One Green top).

Apparently using the older A40 oil will destroy the GPF. IT’s not impossible that someone put the wrong oil in. An OPC did try to sell me some gold top Mobil One for my GPF equipped car. Have a look at service receipts and check that the correct spec oil was used in your car; if not you could well have a claim against whoever serviced the car.