Oldbiddy
PCGB Member
Totally agree!
Cayman 718 GPF Failure
- Thread starter Wrightrubber
- Start date
Wrightrubber
PCGB Member
Well, I have had a conversation with Porsche GB yesterday to challenge what they had put in writing to me, which was: 'We are writing to confirm that the GPF is indeed listed on the exhaustive wear and tear list for the extended warranty' I asked them to provide evidence of this exhaustive list where it states the GPF is not covered. They sent me this:
Below is an exhaustive list of items commonly subject to wear and tear, which if fail due to wear and tear will not be covered by Your Policy:• Wiper blades• Tyres• Brake pads and brake discs• Shock absorber• Clutch disc and clutch pressure plate• Drive belt including deflection and tensioning roller• Spark plugs• Batteries (incl. high-voltage batteries)• Expansion tank PDCC• Refrigerant• All bulbs (excluding Xenon and LED lamps)• All filters, fluids, oils, and greases.
They said it is a filter and all filters are not covered!!
I said that a reasonable person would read that as - All Filters, Fluids, Oils and Greases as consumable filters such as Air, Oil, Pollen and would be subject to checks and replacement at service.
The GPF is not a consumable filter, it is not checked at any service interval and if it is to be classed as a wear and tear item you cannot replace it without replacing the catalytic converter. The GPF doesn't have an individual part number, the catalytic converter has a part number which includes the filter!
The crux of the matter is the Filter Warning Light that tells the driver it requires a regeneration DOES NOT WORK!
Can the Club please ask Porsche, through the committee to confirm that this Filter Light is present on the dash and will illuminate as it should when a regeneration is required, because to date nobody has seen it and this is fundamental in solving this situation that Porsche seem to think is our problem!
Mark
Below is an exhaustive list of items commonly subject to wear and tear, which if fail due to wear and tear will not be covered by Your Policy:• Wiper blades• Tyres• Brake pads and brake discs• Shock absorber• Clutch disc and clutch pressure plate• Drive belt including deflection and tensioning roller• Spark plugs• Batteries (incl. high-voltage batteries)• Expansion tank PDCC• Refrigerant• All bulbs (excluding Xenon and LED lamps)• All filters, fluids, oils, and greases.
They said it is a filter and all filters are not covered!!
I said that a reasonable person would read that as - All Filters, Fluids, Oils and Greases as consumable filters such as Air, Oil, Pollen and would be subject to checks and replacement at service.
The GPF is not a consumable filter, it is not checked at any service interval and if it is to be classed as a wear and tear item you cannot replace it without replacing the catalytic converter. The GPF doesn't have an individual part number, the catalytic converter has a part number which includes the filter!
The crux of the matter is the Filter Warning Light that tells the driver it requires a regeneration DOES NOT WORK!
Can the Club please ask Porsche, through the committee to confirm that this Filter Light is present on the dash and will illuminate as it should when a regeneration is required, because to date nobody has seen it and this is fundamental in solving this situation that Porsche seem to think is our problem!
Mark
100% with you on this Mark -
My understanding is that the CAT is not a wear and tear item , again this needs Porsche clarification.
If it is the case that the CAT is covered under warranty how can a filter within a filter not be ?
How do you then confirm which filter is failing if technically it’s one item.
3 simple questions need to be answered -
1. Where are the soot level lights on the dash and do they actually work ?
2. Why are the GPF filters failing it’s quite clear it’s either got to be a manufacturing failure with the part or are they actually not full and the software programme is failing ?
3.Why are the warranties clearly different based on country even though the car comes from the same factory in Germany ?
Oh sorry one more question -
Why is such a Brand loyal customer base having to work so hard for the truth…….?
Over the last 16 pages of this topic there is clearly enough information from owners to get the answers and solution needed
Wrightrubber
PCGB Member
Spot on Paul!
I first posted on this subject on 29th May 2023, nearly 17 months ago and we are still looking for the answers, are Porsche just hoping it goes away? Dave has provided so much technical information and helped lots of owners get out of a very worrying situation when you are told it's going to cost £7500 and it's your fault for not driving it properly (I was told if your journey is less than half an hour don't use the car it's doing it no good!!)or putting the wrong oil in! They are replacing the filters without any explanation and technical solution to the problem, which means that owners are faced with dealing with the same problem in the future, by just replacing the filter it is not solving the problem. The worrying thing is as more and more cars come forward, and they will, it's going to be a much bigger problem.WE NEED SOME ANSWERS.
I first posted on this subject on 29th May 2023, nearly 17 months ago and we are still looking for the answers, are Porsche just hoping it goes away? Dave has provided so much technical information and helped lots of owners get out of a very worrying situation when you are told it's going to cost £7500 and it's your fault for not driving it properly (I was told if your journey is less than half an hour don't use the car it's doing it no good!!)or putting the wrong oil in! They are replacing the filters without any explanation and technical solution to the problem, which means that owners are faced with dealing with the same problem in the future, by just replacing the filter it is not solving the problem. The worrying thing is as more and more cars come forward, and they will, it's going to be a much bigger problem.WE NEED SOME ANSWERS.
But quickly after those, you need the solution.
Perhaps Porsche do not yet have one, so they will delay to buy the time to develop the fix.
But first you do need to fully understand the failure mode.
Why would anyone buy a post 2019 Cayman if they are aware of this issue?
Perhaps Porsche do not yet have one, so they will delay to buy the time to develop the fix.
But first you do need to fully understand the failure mode.
Why would anyone buy a post 2019 Cayman if they are aware of this issue?
The Check particle filter warning is not a light on the main instrument display when you switch on.
It should display in the Multi-function display only when there is an error.
The image below is from https://manual.porsche.com/#/wpi/982-2024-20230619-10-RDW-1.0.3/en_GB/warnings/show/topic.
Hi Ian
Without Prejudice
The hand book is well written explaining what happens when a high soot value needs driver intervention.
It's a shame the car doesn’t put on the light, or a message. In all the cars I have dealt with, in the last year no light or message has been seen.
We have unfortunately at the moment a major emission function error on the cars we are dealing with.
We are expecting the soot warning light to work, Porsche technical are insisting it should work, but sadly it doesn't.
But when we look at the soot calculated and measured values, there never seems to be much in, most of the time you only see a reading in the measured section and thats usually 0.00 %.
The only sensor that can trigger a regeneration is the differential pressure sensor and that always shows a very low differential pressure readings.The regeneration will only happen with high soot levels and high readings.
Yet we are being told the exhaust is blocked. A blocked exhaust would show alot higher differential pressure readings.
The only light that warns the driver of an issue is the engine warning light.
This comes on with a permitted to drive message, and a visit to the dealer, if the fault code is P242F , then a potential bill of £7,500.00 is discussed.
We then have to fight with the dealers and Porsche technical to get them to cover this cost, on the grounds this is a manufacturing defect, which can take us months.
This trouble code is nothing to do with soot, its the oil ash/loading thats reached 100%, and when it comes on its to late to save the GPF.
Which is absolutely ridiculous bearing in mind the low mileages covered on these cars.
We have asked all the Porsche service departments who have dealt with our cars to show us this light working, still waiting, its been a year now.
Sorry for going on but all this information is crucial to our argument that something is sadly wrong with our cars.
We just need an acknowledgement from Porsche Cars that they are looking into this problem on their cars, and we don't need to worry.
Dave
Without Prejudice
The hand book is well written explaining what happens when a high soot value needs driver intervention.
It's a shame the car doesn’t put on the light, or a message. In all the cars I have dealt with, in the last year no light or message has been seen.
We have unfortunately at the moment a major emission function error on the cars we are dealing with.
We are expecting the soot warning light to work, Porsche technical are insisting it should work, but sadly it doesn't.
But when we look at the soot calculated and measured values, there never seems to be much in, most of the time you only see a reading in the measured section and thats usually 0.00 %.
The only sensor that can trigger a regeneration is the differential pressure sensor and that always shows a very low differential pressure readings.The regeneration will only happen with high soot levels and high readings.
Yet we are being told the exhaust is blocked. A blocked exhaust would show alot higher differential pressure readings.
The only light that warns the driver of an issue is the engine warning light.
This comes on with a permitted to drive message, and a visit to the dealer, if the fault code is P242F , then a potential bill of £7,500.00 is discussed.
We then have to fight with the dealers and Porsche technical to get them to cover this cost, on the grounds this is a manufacturing defect, which can take us months.
This trouble code is nothing to do with soot, its the oil ash/loading thats reached 100%, and when it comes on its to late to save the GPF.
Which is absolutely ridiculous bearing in mind the low mileages covered on these cars.
We have asked all the Porsche service departments who have dealt with our cars to show us this light working, still waiting, its been a year now.
Sorry for going on but all this information is crucial to our argument that something is sadly wrong with our cars.
We just need an acknowledgement from Porsche Cars that they are looking into this problem on their cars, and we don't need to worry.
Dave
michaeldowgill
PCGB Member
Had my new Cayman Style Edition since June 23 from Porsche Leeds. I have now covered 10,000 miles and never seen the GPF warning light in the Multi-Function display. I would have expected to see it as I have been in several long traffic queues. I'm convinced it's not working. The only strange thing I get now and again is the additional acoustic signal sounds which accompany certain warning and information messages. No messages or symbols appear on the Multi- Function display. Maybe it's the GPF initial warning?
Not read all the pages on this thread so this maybe an “go read it” question but is there any engagement or input from the register secretaries or other associated members. ?
I think this merits some PCGB “official” input.
It’s a very active, interesting and concerning thread and topic.
Are there details on the PCGB database that the officials can access to poll membership to see if anyone has any input on the questions raised here. ?
I think this merits some PCGB “official” input.
It’s a very active, interesting and concerning thread and topic.
Are there details on the PCGB database that the officials can access to poll membership to see if anyone has any input on the questions raised here. ?
Morning Michael,
What year is your car please, and engine size, and does it have full dealer services
Thanks Dave
What year is your car please, and engine size, and does it have full dealer services
Thanks Dave
michaeldowgill
PCGB Member
Right Dave. My car is year 2023 purchased new in June 14th 2023. The first service is due in June 2025. The only time I visited Porsche Leeds was to have a tyre replaced and they said everything was correct with the car.
michaeldowgill
PCGB Member
Forgot to say it's a 2 litre.
Paul,
Although this post emanated on this forum, with 19k+ views you’d have to think that many of these were Boxster owners, but I don’t know if John has had any formal contact with Tracy on this matter.
However, both John and Dave have been in contact with PCGB officials, but I don’t know if any progress has been made in approaching Porsche GB to resolve this issue. Hopefully we’ll get some feedback soon from them.
Jeff
Morning Jeff,
I have only had conversations with John, regarding our dealings with owners, Dealers, and customer care.
Would really like to speak to somebody at Porsche Technical, we need some answers.
Actually spoke to John last night who is pushing are case to Porsche Cars
Dave
I have only had conversations with John, regarding our dealings with owners, Dealers, and customer care.
Would really like to speak to somebody at Porsche Technical, we need some answers.
Actually spoke to John last night who is pushing are case to Porsche Cars
Dave
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the info, I think if you are concerned about your car, the only thing you can do is speak to Porsche Leeds and get them to check your GPF oil / ash loading.
They can show you the results on their diagnostic screen, you could take a photo and then send it to me.
Iam very sorry that our posts are causing people to worry about their cars, but at the moment we are very busy trying to sort out 2019 car issues.
Yesterday I spent alot of time drafting a letter to Porsche Technical trying to get them to reverse a decision not to cover the cost of replacing a GPF filter they say is faulty.
The main part of my letter was showing data from GPF reports showing incorrect temperature and % readings, without this information we would have no chance to challenge them.
Dave
Thanks for the info, I think if you are concerned about your car, the only thing you can do is speak to Porsche Leeds and get them to check your GPF oil / ash loading.
They can show you the results on their diagnostic screen, you could take a photo and then send it to me.
Iam very sorry that our posts are causing people to worry about their cars, but at the moment we are very busy trying to sort out 2019 car issues.
Yesterday I spent alot of time drafting a letter to Porsche Technical trying to get them to reverse a decision not to cover the cost of replacing a GPF filter they say is faulty.
The main part of my letter was showing data from GPF reports showing incorrect temperature and % readings, without this information we would have no chance to challenge them.
Dave
michaeldowgill
PCGB Member
Thanks Dave. I traded in my 2019 Cayman T 2 litre and I was getting the the same acoustic sounds with no messages on the Multi- Function display. I just wondered if anybody else is getting this warning but no messages. I now carry out the procedure to clean the GPF as described in the manual when I get these warning tones.
Michael.
Michael.
Hi Michael,
These acoustic sounds have been mentioned before, you could ask the service department if you take in your car for the GPF check.
If you have been doing regeneration runs yourself the oil / ash loading should be okay.
If you would like me to send you a GPF report please give me a ring on 07769 590119
Dave
These acoustic sounds have been mentioned before, you could ask the service department if you take in your car for the GPF check.
If you have been doing regeneration runs yourself the oil / ash loading should be okay.
If you would like me to send you a GPF report please give me a ring on 07769 590119
Dave
Michael,
Like Dave I remember the acoustic sounds being mentioned on here, but looking back I note that it was yourself who asked the question back in August [post #202]
. However, I don’t recall anyone else posting on this occurrence, although Dave may have come across it with the owners’ he’s assisted.
Jeff
Like Dave I remember the acoustic sounds being mentioned on here, but looking back I note that it was yourself who asked the question back in August [post #202]
. However, I don’t recall anyone else posting on this occurrence, although Dave may have come across it with the owners’ he’s assisted.Jeff
Club Representatives -
As Dave’s last paragraph suggests a statement from the club updating its members on the progress to date on this matter with Porsche GB is all I think it’s members are looking for at this point.
It’s been nearly 3 weeks since there was a mention of the committee engaging Porsche and it’s been radio silence since..
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