Menu toggle

Cayman 718 GPF Failure

Thanks Mark and Paul for your support.

Porsche need to listen to their customers and support them, after all these cars are expensive and they need to help restore confidence and faith in their vehicles.
 
Wrightrubber said:
Hi all
I sent a letter to Porsche Germany to complain that the GPF not being covered under the extended warranty because they class it as a wear and tear part was an 'unfair term' because it is not a serviceable component. They just sent the letter to Porsche GB to deal with, basically they are not interested.
I have attached Porsche GB response, they say that the GPF is listed on the exhaustive wear and tear list for the extended warranty.... not on my copy of the warranty exclusions, I have asked them to send me a copy of the section that details the GPF exclusion.
Regardless there is NO light on the dash to tell the driver it needs a regeneration, let them explain that to the Ombudsman
Click to expand...
Based on the written response from Porsche GB regarding the warranty claims, a good starting point for when the owners club finally engage with them would be to ask the following questions -

-What criteria is used by the Porsche centre to diagnosis/define "Wear and Tear" ?
-What determines a Manufacturing Defect ?

Based on both my experience and knowledge of this issue a true root course has never been established as yet, and any investigation actions are limited so the answers to both the above points would hopefully give us the insight we all need.
 
The early 718 (2016-2018) didn't have a GPF fitted, could it be that when they fitted the GPF to 2019 cars they were still using the same dash as the 2016-2018 models hence there was no filter light as it wasn't required on the earlier cars????
 
Hi Mark,

Enclose a photo of your dashboard, unfortunately your video would not send.

Has we can all see, we are missing the amber particulate filter warning light.

You would expect to see this warning light when you turn on the ignition, all the other lights come on including the EML light.

Remember this light is mentioned in the drivers manual, with a very detailed instruction on what to do if it comes on.

We have offered a reward to anyone who can supply a photo of our missing warning light.

I have researched other manufacturers with a GPF fitted and they all have the amber warning light on the dashboard.

Dave
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20241003_082923_WhatsApp.jpg
    Screenshot_20241003_082923_WhatsApp.jpg
    767.8 KB · Views: 25
Perhaps it is after all a manufacturing fault in that the warning light fails to come on and that in turn will affect the drivers inability to carry out the necessary and remedial instructions as per the manual.
 
Amongst all the confusion there is a body of evidence building up to the effect that the blocked GPF could be a mis-diagnosis. When the CEL comes on there is no other indication that the GPF is faulty - the car runs OK. Given the values on some of the reports it is quite likely that the calculations could simply be wrong, and in some cases replacing such as the Differential Pressure sensor could lead to a different solution.

Nick Taylor will bring this matter to the attention of Porsche GB, with the objective of clarifying what is going on.
 
Wrightrubber said:
The early 718 (2016-2018) didn't have a GPF fitted, could it be that when they fitted the GPF to 2019 cars they were still using the same dash as the 2016-2018 models hence there was no filter light as it wasn't required on the earlier cars????
Click to expand...

Mark,

Maybe this represents a way in for you. Why not approach your dealer and challenge them to show you in person that the GPF light illuminates when you turn-on the ignition, just like all the other warning lights? If it doesn’t … QED! Then it’s over to them to explain the anomaly.

Even if it’s not illuminated, can you actually detect the presence of the warning light in the display?

Jeff
 
Hi Jeff
I have pushed it back to Reading to prove to me there is a filter light and also to show me the section in the extended warranty where the GPF is listed in the exhaustive list of wear and tear components. I called them on Thursday as I hadn't heard back from them and they informed me they had pushed it back to technical for the filter light and warranty for the wear and tear. I await their reply. My relationship with my local OPC is getting a little fractious, they have been arrogant, ill informed and very dismissive.

Regards
Mark
 
JohnCRS said:
Amongst all the confusion there is a body of evidence building up to the effect that the blocked GPF could be a mis-diagnosis. When the CEL comes on there is no other indication that the GPF is faulty - the car runs OK. Given the values on some of the reports it is quite likely that the calculations could simply be wrong, and in some cases replacing such as the Differential Pressure sensor could lead to a different solution.

Nick Taylor will bring this matter to the attention of Porsche GB, with the objective of clarifying what is going on.
Click to expand...
Hi John,
Do we have any time lines on the meeting with both Nick Taylor and Porsche GB.

Regards

Paul
 
Hi John,

Without Prejudice

How's it going with Porsche Club, we are getting slightly frustrated at the lack of progress with Porsche GB.
I have been on this issue for nearly a year, and presented enough evidence to confirm we have a problem on all the cars we have dealt with.

We are used to the wait when dealing with Porsche and their dealers, and quite frankly this situation is ridiculous.

We have proven that on all the cars we have dealt with, none of them have a working emission particulate warning light. That should come on when the soot load is high.
Again it's function is fully detailed in the drivers Manual.

We have asked all the dealers concerned, why hasn't the light come on, to date, the only answer we get, is it should come on.

Well it didn’t come on, and the warning light symbol is not on the dashboard when you turn on the ignition when all the other warning lights are displayed.

Customers ask the same question to Customer Care, they speak to Porsche technical, they say it should come on.

All they need to do is go to a 2019 car and turn on the ignition.

The diagnostic information we are seeing from the Val reports we have seen, suggest that things are not as they should be.

We have asked all the dealers how the oil / ash measured value is calculated, still waiting.

We have on record 3 cars that have had new GPF filters fitted, and the dealers found it difficult to reset the oil / ash measured value to 0.00%.

Again we have asked the dealers how did they finally reset the value, still waiting.

We are now in a situation that the dealers are not allowing any diagnostic information to go out, a memo from Porsche, why not.

I spoke with independent Porsche Specialist today, who had to buy back a vehicle with this GPF fault.

If this was happening in Canada, or the States, it wouldn't be such a task to get the dealers to cover the repair 100%.

Has the cars over there have a 8 year, 80,000 mile Emission Design and Defects Warranty.

So Porsche Club, we need answers to these specific questions, starting with the most important question how could these cars be sold with an emission system warning light that on all our cars doesn't work, and continues not to work.

And is continuing not to work correctly even with a new GPF fitted by the dealers.

David
 
We have proven that on all the cars we have dealt with, none of them have a working emission particulate warning light. That should come on when the soot load is high.
Again it's function is fully detailed in the drivers Manual.

We have asked all the dealers concerned, why hasn't the light come on, to date, the only answer we get, is it should come on.

Well it didn’t come on, and the warning light symbol is not on the dashboard when you turn on the ignition when all the other warning lights are displayed.

Customers ask the same question to Customer Care, they speak to Porsche technical, they say it should come on.

All they need to do is go to a 2019 car and turn on the ignition.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this?

I have a late 2020 Cayman and no particulate warning light appears when the ignition is turned on. What I do get is the usual Check Engine Light (CEL) displayed in the Rev Counter area which then goes out when the engine starts.

If I am reading my Manual correctly the CEL should illuminate if the filter is blocked AND a specific warning light should accompany it but that should appear in the Multi Function Display rather than the Rev Counter area. The latter is not normally displayed when the ignition is turned on.

The manual is quite confusing so maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation.

But I 100% agree with the remainder of your post.
 
Hi Alan

Without Prejudice

The particulate amber warning light should come on when the soot loading is sufficient to warrant a driver regeneration.

Unfortunately we have never seen this light working, on all the cars we have tested, and it's not showing on the dashboard when you turn on the ignition.

I have researched lots of other manufacturers with GPF fitted and they have a working amber particulate warning light.

This light is has important as the EML light, to warn the driver of a possible situation that could result in a possible breakdown or a visit to the garage.

Porsche Dealers say that the soot warning light should come on at level 4
Which is a readings of between 64%-85%
Level 5 is 86%-99% and level 6 is 100%.
At 100% it's to late the EML light comes on.
But this just happens to be the ash loading in reality.

They cannot not do a regeneration at level 5 has you cannot regenerate ash.

There seems to be confusion over soot and ash values.

You carry out regenerations to clear soot, that then produces very small amounts of ash to build up in the filter over time.

These filters should not have a problem with ash at these mileages.

I would suggest to speak to your dealer and get them to show you your warning light working.

They could also do a quick check on your GPF and let you have a look at it's readings.

And also ask them what would be the DTC code, if this soot filter warning light came on.

I have tried to find this out but they will not speak to me.

I had confirmation last week from a specialist Dealer with a 2020 Cayman, he sent me a picture of his dash, showing no warning light present.

I wasn't going to say anything yet, but you have asked the question.

Enclose copy of the drivers manual, which adds to the confusion.

Please keep in touch

Dave
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20241014_221513_WhatsApp.jpg
    Screenshot_20241014_221513_WhatsApp.jpg
    811.3 KB · Views: 13
Hi Dave
As a potential 718 buyer I've been following this with growing anxiety. Could you tell me which year models are affected? Is it just MY2019? Are 2016-18 models unaffected by this problem? Many thanks for all your work on this.
Andrew
 
Hi Andrew
Pre 2019 cars do not have a GPF fitted, and we have just been working on model year 2019 cars this last year.
Regards
Dave
 
Hi Dave,

I appreciate that you’ve been concentrating on MY 2019 cars but do you know if the GPF warning light is displayed when the ignition is switched on for the post 2019 cars, including the F-6 4.0L?

Jeff
 
Hi Jeff,

Without Prejudice

Sorry, we are collecting information on these cars, and hoping that they will not suffer from any of the issues our 2019 cars seem to be having.

Obviously Porsche will not even speak to us, so we can only ask owners to confirm if the light is present when the ignition is switched on.

We have asked Porsche Technical to provide us with a photo of a dashboard showing this light working, hasn't happened yet.

If they could it would certainly stop all this negativity towards these cars.

After all, these cars are brilliant, it's just a shame that Porsche technical seem to be in the background, so to speak.

Thankfully I have on file a copy of an email sent to one of our drivers, that had a new GPF fitted this year, that was written as follows. This email was sent by Customer Care, this is one paragraph from the email.

The fault codes which were present during the investigation on your vehicle did allow the centre, and our technical and warranty teams to identify the fault.
The fault you experienced was due to a manufacturing defect.

I have the full Val report on this vehicle, and the only code in the engine management system was P242F (particulate filter ash load to high).

It's taken nearly a year to get this conformation in writing, bearing in mind our drivers have been told its their fault.

Wrong oil, and driving style have been the main excuses, for long delays in getting authorisation, customers having to chase the dealers for updates, and their cars being off the road for far to long.

We even had a dealer who said if the driver would mark them excellent on a customer survey, that would help to get authority guicker from Porsche to fit a GPF filter.

We are still waiting for that authority.

Sorry to go on, but we currently have 19 thousand views on this subject, so we need this fault on these cars fixing.

David
 
Motorhead said:
Hi Dave,

I appreciate that you’ve been concentrating on MY 2019 cars but do you know if the GPF warning light is displayed when the ignition is switched on for the post 2019 cars, including the F-6 4.0L?

Jeff
Click to expand...
Hi Jeff

I have a MY2020 Base Cayman.

The emissions control warning light (also called the Check Engine light) should appear in the Tachometer when the ignition is turned on and then disappear when the engine is started. That is assuming all is well. This corresponds to what I see on my car. (See page 121 - 122 of the manual and the image below).

Also see page 273 of the manual (and below) regarding other symbols/warnings/messages that should appear in the event of issues with the GPF depending on their severity. Page 272 also describes other messages and symbols associated with the Check Engine light that might also appear. As far as I am aware none of these lights/warnings/symbols shown on pages 272 and 273 should appear unless the emissions system has a problem. But I'm willing to be proved wrong.

manual_p121.jpgmanual_page_272.jpgmanual_page_273.jpg
 
alan718 said:
Hi Jeff

I have a MY2020 Base Cayman.

The emissions control warning light (also called the Check Engine light) should appear in the Tachometer when the ignition is turned on and then disappear when the engine is started. That is assuming all is well. This corresponds to what I see on my car. (See page 121 - 122 of the manual and the image below).

Also see page 273 of the manual (and below) regarding other symbols/warnings/messages that should appear in the event of issues with the GPF depending on their severity. Page 272 also describes other messages and symbols associated with the Check Engine light that might also appear. As far as I am aware none of these lights/warnings/symbols shown on pages 272 and 273 should appear unless the emissions system has a problem. But I'm willing to be proved wrong.

View attachment 2725View attachment 2726View attachment 2727
Click to expand...
Hi Alan,

As David has mentioned I would suggest going to a dealer to ask them to show you this warning light working, as we are yet to find anyone that has seen it.If they can that would tell us that Porsche had changed something between 2019 and 2020…
The scary thing for me is the radio silence from both Porsche GB and ultimately the Porsche Club which are apparently challenging Porsche GB on this topic.. ?
 
Last edited:
alan718 said:
Hi Jeff

I have a MY2020 Base Cayman.

The emissions control warning light (also called the Check Engine light) should appear in the Tachometer when the ignition is turned on and then disappear when the engine is started. That is assuming all is well. This corresponds to what I see on my car. (See page 121 - 122 of the manual and the image below).

Also see page 273 of the manual (and below) regarding other symbols/warnings/messages that should appear in the event of issues with the GPF depending on their severity. Page 272 also describes other messages and symbols associated with the Check Engine light that might also appear. As far as I am aware none of these lights/warnings/symbols shown on pages 272 and 273 should appear unless the emissions system has a problem. But I'm willing to be proved wrong.

View attachment 2725View attachment 2726View attachment 2727
Click to expand...

Thanks Alan. Interesting that the particle filter warning light isn’t shown in the display, and I assume that you don’t get it when the ignition is turned-on, even if all the other warning lights are illuminated? Although that did seem strange to me, I checked on my GPF-equipped GR Toyota and it’s the same, so apparently not necessarily unusual in vehicle circles.

It appears that the only time the filter warning light is illuminated is when there’s a problem, but as has been reported, unfortunately that isn’t happening.

Jeff
 
Hi Alan,

Without Prejudice

Thanks for the info, usually the engine management light is seperate to the GPF light.
Enclose a photo of a GPF light on a Kia 2019 model year, and it's handbook instructions when the light comes on.

This light comes comes on when the soot load is high and requires a driver regeneration.

On the Porsche vehicles we have seen the engine management light comes on to tell us the GPF is blocked with ASH, and needs replacing.

Slightly different in a wrong way.

Dave
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20241015_195351_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20241015_195351_Chrome.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 16
  • Screenshot_20241015_195447_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20241015_195447_Chrome.jpg
    629.4 KB · Views: 16
You must log in or register to reply here.

Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

Porsche
Lockton
Pirelli
Officially approved
Oracle Finance
WEX Esso
Collecting Cars
Back
Top