What boost do you run?

[barks944]

Yes indeed, does anyone have a kit made up to do this? Right I'm deffo going back. I'm running 20 degrees advance max at 1 Bar 18.5 degrees at 1.2 bar and 60 degrees IAT. I rekon there's another 20-40hp in there. Next run will be 1.2Bar with electronic boost solenoid, more advance above 4K rpm and some air flow through the intercooler

Edit: Just realised I'm running less ignition advance than the factory timing map....

 

[TTM]

I borrowed the pressure "kit" from my friend Sly who had ordered it from Lindsey among many other things. Not worth the money if you ask me, but it came in handy [8D]

 

[barks944]

I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to make one. What's the pressure range in the crossover pipe?

 

[TTM]

For 1.2 bar of boost, I have heard from people running KKK housings peak back pressures near 3 bar.
With my Garrett turbine, I haven't seen more than 1.5 bar yet.
A friend with a #8 housing but fitted with a modern 3K-BW turbine wheel gets 2.1 bar, also with 1.2 bar of boost.

Of course that is the static pressure since it's measured on the wall of the cross pipe.

 

[George Elliott]

For sure the IAT has got high Tom, and that will reduce the performance.
Its a credit to you that the engine management could maintain control in Arizona conditions, and also return respectable numbers.
Your setup is unusual - it seems to incorporate cutting edge features such as MAP, with a KKK number 6 (hybrid admittedly) hot side.
Can I predict you will shortly make 310hp at 1 Bar, hmmmmm.......340@1.2bar and.......if you can control 1.5 bar which I think you will.......370hp? (but I think this will require a 3" DP & Exhaust)
Keep up the good work
George
944t

 

[nick_968]

Without airflow your intercooler will just be acting as an inter heater! it's always hard to keep temps down at the dyno on turbo cars but the better dynos have really good fans pumping cool ambient air hard into the front of the car. Sounds like you have some good results there, keep up the good work!

 

[barks944]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

For sure the IAT has got high Tom, and that will reduce the performance.
Its a credit to you that the engine management could maintain control in Arizona conditions, and also return respectable numbers.
Your setup is unusual - it seems to incorporate cutting edge features such as MAP, with a KKK number 6 (hybrid admittedly) hot side.
Can I predict you will shortly make 310hp at 1 Bar, hmmmmm.......340@1.2bar and.......if you can control 1.5 bar which I think you will.......370hp? (but I think this will require a 3" DP & Exhaust)
Keep up the good work
George
944t

You'r right it is unusual I guess, I will upgrade the turbo and exhaust system for sure but I wan't to see how far I can push this setup first. 1.5Bar would be very nice but I think it might generate too much back pressure for the engine. But we will see .

I wrote some boost solenoid control code today . So I can now get rid of the MBC and have the ECU control the boost pressure which should be nice.

 

[barks944]

ORIGINAL: nick_968

Without airflow your intercooler will just be acting as an inter heater! it's always hard to keep temps down at the dyno on turbo cars but the better dynos have really good fans pumping cool ambient air hard into the front of the car. Sounds like you have some good results there, keep up the good work!

Cheers, this certainly wasn't the most impressive fan I've ever seen, but it did a good job on the coolant temperature. I guess unless it's a sensor heat soak issue it just was at the wrong angle. I think taking the badge panel off would do the trick.

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: barks944
I think taking the badge panel off would do the trick.

Not sure how?
Air should be forced through the IC core thanks to the plastic ducting leading to it from the bumper opening, otherwise it will make its way around it.

 

[barks944]

Maybe its better to just make sure the fan is blowing in the right direction. I just though with the badge panel and the plasic shroud off the intercooler would be pretty exposed at the front of the car so it might be easier to get air through it.

 

[colin944]

Personally I've always favoured the Peanut one..................................


oh sorry never read the post...........

wrong boost...........................

[]

 

[nick_968]

ORIGINAL: TTM

ORIGINAL: barks944
I think taking the badge panel off would do the trick.

Not sure how?
Air should be forced through the IC core thanks to the plastic ducting leading to it from the bumper opening, otherwise it will make its way around it.

Thom, what you do not have at the dyno is the low pressure zone generated by the vents in the undertray and the effect of air moving under the body of the car that you get at speed. This is what helps to pull the air through the very thick intercooler core and without this low pressure zone the air will struggle to get through. This is one of the reasons turbo cars always struggle to keep temps down at the dyno. What you really want is a fan that bolts right up to the front of the intercooler or intercooler duct so the air is forced through. The best solution is to be able to sit the intercooler in a water tank, this is what they do on engine dynos, which keeps temps very stable and makes mapping at high loads much safer and more predictable.

 

[944Turbo]

looking very good!

 

[barks944]

ORIGINAL: nick_968

ORIGINAL: TTM

ORIGINAL: barks944
I think taking the badge panel off would do the trick.

Not sure how?
Air should be forced through the IC core thanks to the plastic ducting leading to it from the bumper opening, otherwise it will make its way around it.

Thom, what you do not have at the dyno is the low pressure zone generated by the vents in the undertray and the effect of air moving under the body of the car that you get at speed. This is what helps to pull the air through the very thick intercooler core and without this low pressure zone the air will struggle to get through. This is one of the reasons turbo cars always struggle to keep temps down at the dyno. What you really want is a fan that bolts right up to the front of the intercooler or intercooler duct so the air is forced through. The best solution is to be able to sit the intercooler in a water tank, this is what they do on engine dynos, which keeps temps very stable and makes mapping at high loads much safer and more predictable.

Interesting point, certainly worth a bit of experimentation I think

 

[333pg333]

Nobody seems to discuss the location of the turbo directly under the intake and what effects that might have on the IATs? On my racemotor they are almost touching. We will install a bit of shielding while we wait for an alternative intake to be made.

 

[barks944]

I've got a shield fabricated up for my car. Just a metal shield but should help. My measurement is taken just after throttle so it won't include any additional heat the air gets as it travels through the intake.Makes you think doesn't it....

 

[333pg333]

The sensor on my intake is right at the very rear of it. That's where the builders of that motor thought it best to locate it. I am looking at alternative intakes and was dealing with a guy fairly local to me who makes custom products. He was also going to locate the iat sensor at the end of the plenum iirc. I'm now looking at an alternative product.

 

[TTM]

The only moment where the turbo may heat soak the intake manifold is when the throttle body is near fully closed. Otherwise, the air moves in at such a speed that the heat generated by the turbo will have, I think, a negligible effect.

I think it won't make much of a difference whether the IAT sensor is put in between runners, at the back of the intake or anywhere else after the throttle body.

 

[barks944]

ORIGINAL: TTM

The only moment where the turbo may heat soak the intake manifold is when the throttle body is near fully closed. Otherwise, the air moves in at such a speed that the heat generated by the turbo will have, I think, a negligible effect.

I think it won't make much of a difference whether the IAT sensor is put in between runners, at the back of the intake or anywhere else after the throttle body.

I would tend to agree with you on that. It might be interesting to measure the temperature on the bottom of the intake manifold however. Patrick, what kind of intake manifold are you looking at then?!

 

[333pg333]

You're probably right Thom although on the 3L motor I'm looking at the intake and turbo are virtually touching. I would have to assume that there is some transfer of heat. Perhaps we might do a bit of pre and post shield testing.

Tom, I was waiting for a custom intake from CEP in the U.S. to be made but it was getting delayed a little so I started to get a local guy to assess the stock one for a friend down here in view of making up something better than that. He does very nice work from all accounts. This was going to be a with a tapered plenum and larger single t/b. I was going to get one also however there has been a little bit more progress on the U.S. one which will be very schmick so I'm sticking with that. Shan't say too much about it until I see it but it promises to be a nice piece along the lines of the JME version.