New Carrera T Order
- Thread starter Simon991
- Start date
Replacement rotors are £3,500 each. Replacement pads are manufactured by Pagid, but cannot be purchased direct and are currently only available from Porsche. They are larger, more specialised and twice the price of the stock items.
Regards,
[font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]Clive[/font]
Regards,
[font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]Clive[/font]
Simon991
New member
Are rotors the same as discs? I see that the term 'rotors' is used on Rennlist.
Ah yes, I knew about the £14k for a set of new rotors/discs.
Or, I guess if replacement was necessary, one could replace with iron/steels discs?
Although I understand that if cared for, and not tracked, the PCCBs should last a very long time?
Cheers,
Simon
Ah yes, I knew about the £14k for a set of new rotors/discs.
Or, I guess if replacement was necessary, one could replace with iron/steels discs?
Although I understand that if cared for, and not tracked, the PCCBs should last a very long time?
Cheers,
Simon
Rotor = Disc
Replacing with steel would require replacing the entire system as the callipers would also be unsuitable.
PCCB rotors are said to last at least 100K miles, but it's not unknown for them to suffer premature wear. The minimum wear dimension is stamped on the mounting bell.
Regards,
[font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]Clive[/font]
Replacing with steel would require replacing the entire system as the callipers would also be unsuitable.
PCCB rotors are said to last at least 100K miles, but it's not unknown for them to suffer premature wear. The minimum wear dimension is stamped on the mounting bell.
Regards,
[font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]Clive[/font]
Girodisc have iron slotted replacement discs but for road use why would one replace PCCBs?
I'm not getting the vibe here that the PCCB option would have anything to do with the driving/handling benefit but simply cosmetic? For the type of driving you describe the steels would be more than sufficient. I have steels on my 8 year old turbo, albeit with upgraded pads, and they do the job well. Anyway, yellow calipers would look naff on my red car[
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Simon991
New member
tscaptain said:I'm not getting the vibe here that the PCCB option would have anything to do with the driving/handling benefit but simply cosmetic? For the type of driving you describe the steels would be more than sufficient. I have steels on my 8 year old turbo, albeit with upgraded pads, and they do the job well. Anyway, yellow calipers would look naff on my red car[
As hinted at above, being honest, the aesthetic benefits are my main motivation, but I will happily enjoy any subtle driving/handling benefits that come along! At the end of the day, many of us spend money on things because they look nice and/or make us feel good. It would be a boring old world if we were all sensible, all of the time. [
]One of the downsides of PCCBs (as I found out with my 911 C4GTS) is that small stones ”flicked“ up from the road can get trapped between the back of the calliper and the inside of the front wheel due to the very small gap between the back of the calliper and the wheel because the discs are much larger. In my case it resulted in two deep scratches running the full circumference of both front wheels and being black wheels showed up as they had cut right through to the metal. Easily fixed with a wheel refurbishmeant but another potential cost to consider.
Simon991
New member
BigCat said:
Hi Adrian.
Hope you're well.
Is that your new 991.2 C4 GTS? Did you go for GT Silver?
Yes, I've got lots of feedback from the Rennlist 991 Forum, including that issue of stones getting caught and damaging the wheel and/or caliper. I believe it's only about a 6mm gap. They are 410mm discs on the fronts, I believe.
Weighing up all the pros & cons, I think I'm likely to tick the PCCB box on Monday.
Incidentally, has anyone seen that video on YouTube (about 5 mins) of CCB discs/rotors being made? Very impressive!
I look forward to catching up some time.
Cheers,
Simon
ScaredJimmy
New member
Just to weigh in on the Carbon Ceramic discussion. I've had them before and probably wouldn't again unless I was buying a vehicle that would spend the majority of it's time on the track. I was fortunate enough to have back to back versions of the same car, one with steel, one with CC.
While CC undoubtably reduces (it doesn't STOP) brake fade during rapid mountain descents or heavy track work, I found them to be a little harder to predict in two scenarios...
1) Cold brakes - CC are renowned for this, they can be reluctant to grab when cold and a bit damp so you need to be aware that a little extra pedal pressure may be required when you get to the end of your street/driveway! Makes you jump when you first get them. I say difficult to predict because the "bite point" is variable dependant on atmospheric conditions and the last few hours of it (car sitting in the garage overnight or on the drive for example).
2) "Threshold Braking" - If you, like most of us, have spent your driving career zooming about on steel disks (or drums!) your feet are trained to "understand" the feedback from the pedal and the dynamic of the steel disk and it's sintered-composite pad pals. When you switch to CC, this dynamic changes quite a lot and you'll initially that the brakes are fairly binary. They're not, you just need to learn how they work! This is most apparent at the threshold when you'll find the ABS drumming away before you expect and learn the setup with spirited driving.
Longevity - Yes, they last longer but no they don't last 4x the life of a steel set up.
Performance - Stopping power - I think the TB performance of road use CC setups per is proven to be marginally better than steel, but its not considerable. (don't expect to stop 10yards earlier!)
Pro's for your T - They're yellow and look cool, they don't warp (but they can burn the paint of the inside of your wheels!!)
Cons - You can't reface them when you change pads and you need to sell a child/wife/limb if you eat them up!
Either way, there is not a "wrong" decision IMHO.
**** DISCLAIMER: I've not driven a Porsche with PCCB - only Audis so I could be very wrong. I'm also an idiot. ******
While CC undoubtably reduces (it doesn't STOP) brake fade during rapid mountain descents or heavy track work, I found them to be a little harder to predict in two scenarios...
1) Cold brakes - CC are renowned for this, they can be reluctant to grab when cold and a bit damp so you need to be aware that a little extra pedal pressure may be required when you get to the end of your street/driveway! Makes you jump when you first get them. I say difficult to predict because the "bite point" is variable dependant on atmospheric conditions and the last few hours of it (car sitting in the garage overnight or on the drive for example).
2) "Threshold Braking" - If you, like most of us, have spent your driving career zooming about on steel disks (or drums!) your feet are trained to "understand" the feedback from the pedal and the dynamic of the steel disk and it's sintered-composite pad pals. When you switch to CC, this dynamic changes quite a lot and you'll initially that the brakes are fairly binary. They're not, you just need to learn how they work! This is most apparent at the threshold when you'll find the ABS drumming away before you expect and learn the setup with spirited driving.
Longevity - Yes, they last longer but no they don't last 4x the life of a steel set up.
Performance - Stopping power - I think the TB performance of road use CC setups per is proven to be marginally better than steel, but its not considerable. (don't expect to stop 10yards earlier!)
Pro's for your T - They're yellow and look cool, they don't warp (but they can burn the paint of the inside of your wheels!!)
Cons - You can't reface them when you change pads and you need to sell a child/wife/limb if you eat them up!
Either way, there is not a "wrong" decision IMHO.
**** DISCLAIMER: I've not driven a Porsche with PCCB - only Audis so I could be very wrong. I'm also an idiot. ******
My last cars 997TTs, GT4, 991.2 GTS Targa, GT3 and my incoming car (GT3) all PCCB, in between the TTs and GT4 I had a 991 4S on steels, as this was like a preregistered car I had no choice in the spec but the one thing I regretted was buying it without PCCB, saying that it was an immense car and the brakes were always spot on, it was me with the feeling that there was something missing.
The positives for me, better stopping power ( this will be argued), less dust, lighter, look better due to the way they fill the wheel (especially the fronts), less fade and they last a lot longer but for me in my mind they give me a bit more confidence.
Negatives, they are more expensive to buy and replace (although I never have), when they get wet, and I don't mean rain, a couple of times I have gone through deep puddled water ( slowly) and they seamed to take a lot longer to come back but never bothered me when cold as like most you drive fairly slowly keeping the revs down when you first go out to get your oil and everything else including your brakes warm and the last point you have to take care of them a bit more, following a spirited drive or track session cool them down before stopping and I never put my hand brake on, although sometimes it comes on by itself (?)
Like others, there is no wrong choice.
The positives for me, better stopping power ( this will be argued), less dust, lighter, look better due to the way they fill the wheel (especially the fronts), less fade and they last a lot longer but for me in my mind they give me a bit more confidence.
Negatives, they are more expensive to buy and replace (although I never have), when they get wet, and I don't mean rain, a couple of times I have gone through deep puddled water ( slowly) and they seamed to take a lot longer to come back but never bothered me when cold as like most you drive fairly slowly keeping the revs down when you first go out to get your oil and everything else including your brakes warm and the last point you have to take care of them a bit more, following a spirited drive or track session cool them down before stopping and I never put my hand brake on, although sometimes it comes on by itself (?)
Like others, there is no wrong choice.
ScaredJimmy
New member
Simon991 said:Thanks, Steve. All good points.
Planning to tick the PCCB box tomorrow. CP08 date is March 20th, so hopefully I'll get the car early April. [
Looking forward to seeing the Flying Banana
Make sure you get some time at the PEC from your dealer...
Simon991
New member
ScaredJimmy said:Simon991 said:Thanks, Steve. All good points.
Planning to tick the PCCB box tomorrow. CP08 date is March 20th, so hopefully I'll get the car early April. [
Looking forward to seeing the Flying Banana
Make sure you get some time at the PEC from your dealer...
Oh yes. Am looking forward to my third visit to the PEC. [8D]
From feedback received from 991.2 drivers, including lots via the Rennlist 991 Forum, I may tick the rear axle steering box too. I have it on my 2017 Panamera 4 and it certainly makes the big saloon feel smaller than it really is when on the move.
Simon991
New member
Ok, so I put my 'sensible' head on & decided to leave the spec as it is (no PCCBs or rear-axle steering).
The ethos of the T seems to be along the lines of 'keep it simple' so I'm sticking with that.
Compared to my previous 911 (a 991.1 C2) the new 991.2 Carrera T will have more power, a lot more torque, better brakes, an upgraded PCM along with all the T features of Sport PASM, LSD, PSE, Sport Chrono, Sports Seats Plus etc and a really individual appearance inside & out! []
Thank you to everyone on here for your input.
Cheers,
Simon
The ethos of the T seems to be along the lines of 'keep it simple' so I'm sticking with that.
Compared to my previous 911 (a 991.1 C2) the new 991.2 Carrera T will have more power, a lot more torque, better brakes, an upgraded PCM along with all the T features of Sport PASM, LSD, PSE, Sport Chrono, Sports Seats Plus etc and a really individual appearance inside & out! [
]Thank you to everyone on here for your input.
Cheers,
Simon
ScaredJimmy
New member
Good lad. I was thinking that you were wandering a little "off message" with the whole T thing.
You're not going to be disappointed, you're getting a new 911...
You're not going to be disappointed, you're getting a new 911...
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