Could the 718 replacement be an EV?
- Thread starter Motorhead
- Start date
Here’s the first clue as to what the next Cayman (983) will look like:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-electric-porsche-boxster-caught-testing-first-time
Still a work-in-progress by the look of it.
Jeff
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-electric-porsche-boxster-caught-testing-first-time
Still a work-in-progress by the look of it.
Jeff
That better be a driveline mule else Porsche’s design department are as useless as Clarkson alleged
Not very inspiring is it Ralph? As I see it, one advantage of going electric is that it gives the designers a much freer hand for innovation, although I accept that battery location will be a more of a challenge in a sports car compared with that of a high-riding SUV.
ATM there seem to be different approaches, one like that adopted by BMW/Mini where the electric vehicles look very similar to their combustion engined counterparts and others that are adopting a more radical design philosophy … Tesla and Kia maybe? It looks to me as though Porsche are taking the former more conservative route if the main aspects of the design have been finalised, but there are still a couple of years to go before we get to see the finished item.
Jeff
ATM there seem to be different approaches, one like that adopted by BMW/Mini where the electric vehicles look very similar to their combustion engined counterparts and others that are adopting a more radical design philosophy … Tesla and Kia maybe? It looks to me as though Porsche are taking the former more conservative route if the main aspects of the design have been finalised, but there are still a couple of years to go before we get to see the finished item.
Jeff
Agreed John. I’m sure that’s how they arrived at this point just by stuffing a big battery and electric motor in a 718, which it sounds as though they started 10-years ago!
I’m guessing that they’ve held off producing the finished item as long as possible in the hope that battery development would lead to sufficient power density to make something like a real-world 300-mile plus range a reality?
Jeff
I’m guessing that they’ve held off producing the finished item as long as possible in the hope that battery development would lead to sufficient power density to make something like a real-world 300-mile plus range a reality?
Jeff
Battery chemistry isn’t really improving much, more about power management software and cooling
There are a lot of materials in a battery that require mining. Mining that is rarely eco-friendly for limited supply materials often in difficult jurisdictions and that require huge energy sources to process (as does lightweight aluminium). Zero emissions claims based on tailpipe are marketing hype and EVs with their limited battery life and recycling will further shorten vehicle usable life times. I'm not a fan, as one might guess..
[attachment=FhOyKyhUoAEnNfZ.jpeg]
[attachment=FhOyKyhUoAEnNfZ.jpeg]
AndrewCS
Active member
So true Ralph ... and lost - hidden in all the politicking, media frenzies that surround the subject - environment
As a `fossil` of the oil and gas industry I recently wrote to the BBC to complain about their portrayal of `us`, whilst their response process was excellent and did contain a slight acknowledgement of my `case` ... it was clear that they were happy to showboat `us` in a poor - incorrect light to fuel the bandwagon [
]
As a `fossil` of the oil and gas industry I recently wrote to the BBC to complain about their portrayal of `us`, whilst their response process was excellent and did contain a slight acknowledgement of my `case` ... it was clear that they were happy to showboat `us` in a poor - incorrect light to fuel the bandwagon [
]
Brian_Innes
Member
I agree Andrew.
Speaking as a born and brought up native of the north east of Scotland, the offshore hydrocarbon industries together with onshore fabrication and support services, receive mainly negative reporting from the broadcast media's environmental correspondents. Despite current diversity towards sustainable wind and tidal energy production by the onshore engineering skills base, the demonised oil and gas production as the go-to punch-bag focus of the eco-zealots. The truth is, we shall still require oil and gas for several decades yet. Practically everything we use in daily life has a hydrocarbon content in some form or other.
On the topic of EV's and charging facilities, the recent study by BBC Scotland into the availability of public charging stations, revealed that 50% were out of service. That, together with Highland Council trebling its EV public charging tariffs, is another blow to the argument for EV's as a reliable means of transport in remote rural areas. The end of cheap EV travel is already well underway it seems. Other forms of taxation will surely follow, as the migration to EV's gathers pace.
I have no plans to go the EV route. I'll stick with ICE propulsion for now. In my particular locality, Hybrid-EV is probably the best option for the future, from a cost per mile basis.
Brian
Speaking as a born and brought up native of the north east of Scotland, the offshore hydrocarbon industries together with onshore fabrication and support services, receive mainly negative reporting from the broadcast media's environmental correspondents. Despite current diversity towards sustainable wind and tidal energy production by the onshore engineering skills base, the demonised oil and gas production as the go-to punch-bag focus of the eco-zealots. The truth is, we shall still require oil and gas for several decades yet. Practically everything we use in daily life has a hydrocarbon content in some form or other.
On the topic of EV's and charging facilities, the recent study by BBC Scotland into the availability of public charging stations, revealed that 50% were out of service. That, together with Highland Council trebling its EV public charging tariffs, is another blow to the argument for EV's as a reliable means of transport in remote rural areas. The end of cheap EV travel is already well underway it seems. Other forms of taxation will surely follow, as the migration to EV's gathers pace.
I have no plans to go the EV route. I'll stick with ICE propulsion for now. In my particular locality, Hybrid-EV is probably the best option for the future, from a cost per mile basis.
Brian
Net Zero, an unobtainable dream. I won't see it, and I would stake my life on it that most if not all PCGB members will never see it. Petrochemicals will never die out only when the pumps run dry in the desert. Do people realise what petroleum is used for? The Greens are as mad as a box of frogs, I agree we cannot keep polluting the atmosphere, but could someone please tell me why the protesters do not protest in the countries of the higher emissions, rather than attempting to cripple the UK and send its inhabitants back to the dark ages?
The only way to achieve Net Zero in car manufacture is to stop manufacturing cars of any description. What about cycles, be they powered by your legs or by assisted battery? Almost everything which is manufactured pollutes in the way it is made. There is no getting away from that. You walk down the road and as you are walking your shoes are wearing down which are in many cases made from synthetics which in turn are ending up as microplastics. These microplastics end up as leachates. Don't take my word for it, look it up.
I worked in the chemical industry for over 24 years, one of the world's largest, and safety surrounding emissions was paramount. Behind the company was a vast area of land with grass and trees, or at least it did have at one time. Emissions had destroyed the natural area, however, over a period of years with ever-increasing clean air regulations and emission controls that land came back from the dead to its norm. We even turned the area into a nature reserve for local people to walk the trails. The site is still making chemicals for the world. A couple of months ago we had ER outside the site demonstrating, ban this ban the other, but not one of them has a single atom of an idea as to what will replace them?
Sorry to go on, but I find this topic very divisive as there is no answer to the problem as yet. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey.
The only way to achieve Net Zero in car manufacture is to stop manufacturing cars of any description. What about cycles, be they powered by your legs or by assisted battery? Almost everything which is manufactured pollutes in the way it is made. There is no getting away from that. You walk down the road and as you are walking your shoes are wearing down which are in many cases made from synthetics which in turn are ending up as microplastics. These microplastics end up as leachates. Don't take my word for it, look it up.
I worked in the chemical industry for over 24 years, one of the world's largest, and safety surrounding emissions was paramount. Behind the company was a vast area of land with grass and trees, or at least it did have at one time. Emissions had destroyed the natural area, however, over a period of years with ever-increasing clean air regulations and emission controls that land came back from the dead to its norm. We even turned the area into a nature reserve for local people to walk the trails. The site is still making chemicals for the world. A couple of months ago we had ER outside the site demonstrating, ban this ban the other, but not one of them has a single atom of an idea as to what will replace them?
Sorry to go on, but I find this topic very divisive as there is no answer to the problem as yet. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey.
A few more pics of the electric Boxster here courtesy of PH:
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/electric-porsche-boxster-spied-in-the-wild/46562
I wonder when we’ll be seeing its Cayman equivalent?
Jeff
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/electric-porsche-boxster-spied-in-the-wild/46562
I wonder when we’ll be seeing its Cayman equivalent?
Jeff
Hydrogen
[tube]https://youtu.be/19Q7nAYjAJY[/tube]
Anyone fancy a 1,000 mile tour in a >30 year old EV?
[tube]https://youtu.be/pIn7gCN6uC4[/tube]
[tube]https://youtu.be/19Q7nAYjAJY[/tube]
Anyone fancy a 1,000 mile tour in a >30 year old EV?
[tube]https://youtu.be/pIn7gCN6uC4[/tube]
I’d picked-up on the Bamford hydrogen fuelled ICE about 18-months ago Ralph. I wonder how much further it’s progressed? Plant machines, heavy goods vehicles, marine use, etc. present a significant obstacle for battery applications, and synthetic fuels are a nonstarter unless the major oil companies can be persuaded to get involved … current production levels literally are just a drop in the ocean.
Great to see Harry using his cherished Lotus for a relatively economical road trip!
Andrew, like you I’ve little personal interest in Porsche’s electric sports cars other than from the technical standpoint, the battery packaging in particular. No doubt Porsche will be leaning heavily on their collaboration partner Rimac’s input in that respect.
Jeff
Great to see Harry using his cherished Lotus for a relatively economical road trip!
Andrew, like you I’ve little personal interest in Porsche’s electric sports cars other than from the technical standpoint, the battery packaging in particular. No doubt Porsche will be leaning heavily on their collaboration partner Rimac’s input in that respect.
Jeff
Jeff,
I do wonder if the powers in charge have truly thought these issues through surrounding batteries? Is it the intentions of our Government to decamp away from petrol/diesel engines entirely? Will planes, trains, bus, haulage, earth handling/digging machinery and many other larger heavier vehicles be EVs?
Once again, I feel there are many more questions than answers. If politicians keep chasing the eco vote without thinking the big picture through, my thoughts are it will all end in tears. And, as usual, you know who will be paying for this FUBAR?
I do wonder if the powers in charge have truly thought these issues through surrounding batteries? Is it the intentions of our Government to decamp away from petrol/diesel engines entirely? Will planes, trains, bus, haulage, earth handling/digging machinery and many other larger heavier vehicles be EVs?
Once again, I feel there are many more questions than answers. If politicians keep chasing the eco vote without thinking the big picture through, my thoughts are it will all end in tears. And, as usual, you know who will be paying for this FUBAR?
Agree completely with all that Ray. The current battery technology appears to be working for passenger vehicles and light vans - to which manufacturers are now committed heavily - but just doesn’t address the applications you’ve mentioned. It will take a quantum leap to make their use viable for applications such as long distance HGVs and aircraft, and I just can’t see that happening given the current rate of progress on battery development.
As for our political masters, we just have to look at the very recent past with the diesel fiasco to gauge the level of naivety and incompetence … nothing unusual there of course! []
Jeff
As for our political masters, we just have to look at the very recent past with the diesel fiasco to gauge the level of naivety and incompetence … nothing unusual there of course! [
]Jeff
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