Cayman GTS 4.0 General Discussion

[Twinfan]

Brian always brings out the BS claim, which I believe is aimed at me []

In my view, you're spot on in that PSP is only needed to make parking easier. That's exactly what it did and still does. The exact wording over the years has probably changed slightly due to translation differences from German, and in the end it's just been semantics about how the feel gets lighter at low speeds to aid parking etc, then weights back up to "normal" as the speed increases. It's not some hidden gem of a software setting that's been changed over the years IMHO nor was it ever anything different than non-PSP at speed.

YMMV, other opinions are available []

 

[Wollemi]

Brian always brings out the BS claim, which I believe is aimed at me []

In my view, you're spot on in that PSP is only needed to make parking easier. That's exactly what it did and still does. The exact wording over the years has probably changed slightly due to translation differences from German, and in the end it's just been semantics about how the feel gets lighter at low speeds to aid parking etc, then weights back up to "normal" as the speed increases. It's not some hidden gem of a software setting that's been changed over the years IMHO nor was it ever anything different than non-PSP at speed.

YMMV, other opinions are available []

Mr Twinfan (David?), I'm going to disagree agree with you here, the wording on the configurator describing PSP was quite clear, and certainly not a translation error. It was the same wording as it is now, but with and extra sentence saying "it also improves steering feel at higher speeds"

That extra sentence has now gone.

Until evidence to contrary emerges I will stick with my theory that in that past PSP did slightly improve steering feel, but more recently the software has been changed so that the high speed benefit is available to all. Its quite plausible, the programming of ESP has been steadily improved (thank goodness) and it would be an easy thing to do.

 

[Brian_Innes]

In my experience of Caymans with and without PSP, I would suggest that both the descriptive wording on the configurator and the programming of the electro steering software has evolved over time. The latest Caymans have undoubtably benefited from development of the steering software improving steering feel dramatically from the early 981 Cayman. Readers may recall I posted a piece on the back-to-back road test of my 2019 718 Cayman GTS 2.5t compared to a friend's 981 Cayman 3.4 GTS. The difference in steering feel between the two cars was clearly apparent to me.

The PSP software in current Caymans may well focus more on the slow speed manoeuvring, compared to the early evolution of the electro steering when the boffins were still developing the system to provide the feel of the previous hydraulic steering across the speed range. The high speed performance of PSP compared to non-PSP is a subjective matter. Some drivers will not feel any difference, others will.

In a lifetime of competitive motorsport I became very sensitive to a car's behaviour and how subtle changes to tyre pressures, suspension, and steering geometry changed the way the car felt or reacted to steering input when pushing-on. For this reason, perhaps my appraisal of PSP in the earlier evolutions of the software, particularly when on the track, showed up the tweaks to the high-speed steering feel more readily to me than to some other drivers. This may explain the BS allegation I was saddled with at the time. No offence is taken. We are all from different driving backgrounds and experiences and decide upon our judgments accordingly.

Brian

 

[Twinfan]

Like I said, other opinions are available and as equally valid as mine. I have no issue with that, I'm an easy going chap[]

For the record, I never claimed you were talking BS, Brian, I just disagreed with your view. There's a distinct difference and no need for you to keep bringing up this incorrect assessment as a veiled dig at me which I've seen several times on here now.

I very clearly state on my posts that they are just my views, not some sort of universal truth

 

[Brian_Innes]

David,

For the avoidance of doubt, I have never alleged it was you by name attributed to the BS remark. As I recall, the BS comment made in my direction was by another forum contributor whose name escapes me in the passage of time. It was a comment that stung at the time, but it was not you that made it. I have never said that.

I likewise respect other opinions which may differ from mine. I have never resorted to invective or personal argument in my forum posts which are written with honesty and integrity to the best of my knowledge.

Let's leave it there shall we David, and get on with enjoying owning our respective cars and driving them on the roads and race tracks while we still can.

Brian

 

[Twinfan]

I'm not leaving anything anywhere, other than this thread for the benefit of everyone else.

Good evening gentlemen, and apologies to everyone else for the sidetrack.

 

[Wollemi]

For the avoidance of doubt, I still believe that Brian was completely correct when he found that his 2019 car with PSP had appreciably better steering feel than a non PSP car, at that time.

My suspicion is that this is no longer the case. Perhaps I should spend the £300 to have the software added to my car just to find out?

 

[Neil Chadwick]

Well I am ashamed to say I had no idea that PSP was just a software upgrade and nothing mechanical. Having said that, the thread is highlighting lots of apparent developments/upgrades which seem to have been introduced for the 2021/2 cars.

 

[Motorhead]

Neil,

There have always been background spec updates during the life cycle of any car without notification from the manufacturers … read the small print in their advertising blurb.

With so much programmable electronics on board the modern car, upgrades have become much easier.

Jeff

 

[Scrounger]

So some observations from my 80 mile journey yesterday with a mix of motorway and A roads.

Firstly I'm trying to keep the rpms below the recommended 4k but its difficult as this engine just wants to rev out so quickly. The NA power unit definitely doesn't have the low down punch of the turbo units which is even more evident when I try and overtake a slow moving tractor however, if and when I'm able to punch above the 4k barrier, I'm sure it will be much easier. I got an average of 32mpg on my mixed run which I'm quite happy with. Hopefully it will go up a touch the more the engine loosens up.

Engine noise is not intrusive when not pushing on, in fact its quite refined however the screaming banshee comes into the cabin when the loud pedal is pushed.

The ride on SPASM is sublime and I am inclined to agree with 'Er in doors that it does ride a little better than my previous car with PASM.

Dan

 

[KenDavis71]

Hi Dan,

I shouldn't worry too much about the revs exceeding 4k occasionally. I spoke at length to the service manager when I collected my car in late Jan and he said so long as the car was warm, you could technically drive it to the limit. However he like me is a bit old school and both agreed 1-2k run in was sensible. I have struggled to keep the revs below 4k in the 1200 miles to date and have given given it the occasional blast, its impossible not to!

In answer the main question of Neil's post, I simply love my car, I went a bit silly with the spec so there really isn't anything I would change or regret. Having owned manual Caymans in the past, the one thing I miss is block shifting from 5th to 3rd. This is the first PDK I have owned but so far so good and enjoying getting used to the different driving style.

No regrets, and looking forward to longer summer runs!

Ken

 

[ralphmusic]

The objective of running in is to allow the parts to run with less stress at full operating temperature for some time. I think from 500 miles you can start to increase the revs to full by maybe 1,200 miles but always being progressive with the accelerator during this period.

 

[KenDavis71]

I don't disagree. I'm more surprised how varied the running in advise is from one OPC to another, hence why I've been relatively cautious..... I think!

 

[Scrounger]

Some conservative driving gave me 42mpg which for a 4ltr I think is pretty good however, 'er in doors took it to a meeting this morning to show her Boss and, needless to say, it came back with only a quarter of a tank left! Mr Tesco quite happily relieved me of £84.02 for 50.95ltrs of his finest Momentum!

I have noticed the Pirellis are quite a bit quieter than the Michellin PS4S.

I'm always very careful of allowing the oil temp to get above the blue marker before giving it zee beans. I think being patient with the running in period will pay dividends in the long term.

Dan

 

[Neil Chadwick]

Following the guidance of a previous post, I finally found the page in the manual where it 'advises' to remain around 4k for the first 1800 miles. It's a very general statement thought and not specific to any engine.

This got me thinking about demo and press cars, in that these often come up for sale with very few miles on them at all , presumably redlined from PDI.

A friend of mine picked up a GT3 around the same time as my GTS arrived , the advice he received was to keep it below 8k until he had 600 miles on it.

Like others have said , advice/guidance seems to be all over the place and I guess that if it was really critical, they would build in a hard limiter linked to mileage. Totally agree that if you are going to be keeping the car for many years that a good break in period is important but its hard work with an engine that wants to rev!!

Neil

 

[Motorhead]

Neil,

One obvious comment to make is: When did Porsche Centre staff know better than the engineers who built and developed the car?

Anecdotally I’ve always carefully run-in my cars (and that was mainly company cars) and very rarely have had to top-up the oil between services. Having said that, as a mechanical engineer I’ve always had a high level of mechanical sympathy which, along with a smooth driving style, has probably helped minimise wear-and-tear.

Also it’s important to remember that it’s not just the engine which needs to be run-in. The transmission, wheel bearings, brakes, tyres and a myriad of other components require time to bed-in properly. It pays to be patient!

Although higher revs won’t necessarily be damaging to the engine when fully warmed-up, it’s more important to avoid labouring the engine (using higher gears at low speeds), something which I’m sure is included in the manual. If you have the PDK transmission this is something to watch out for as it will have a tendency to change-up in low speed, light throttle conditions in standard mode.

Jeff

 

[Wollemi]

Following the guidance of a previous post, I finally found the page in the manual where it 'advises' to remain around 4k for the first 1800 miles. It's a very general statement thought and not specific to any engine.

This got me thinking about demo and press cars, in that these often come up for sale with very few miles on them at all , presumably redlined from PDI.

A friend of mine picked up a GT3 around the same time as my GTS arrived , the advice he received was to keep it below 8k until he had 600 miles on it.

Like others have said , advice/guidance seems to be all over the place and I guess that if it was really critical, they would build in a hard limiter linked to mileage. Totally agree that if you are going to be keeping the car for many years that a good break in period is important but its hard work with an engine that wants to rev!!

Neil

It's quite bizarre, Neil, that they do hide the recommendations regarding running in in the general driving advise section. It's almost as if they don't want to find it! If you're interested the advise for a GT4 or Spyder is exactly the same.

People who know an awful lot more about engineering than I do will confirm however that running an engine in still a good thing to do as there will be areas within the engine where tolerance will creat tight spots, and these will create more heat until these are "polished out" by hours of running. tHe goal of running in is to prevent the build up of local heat spots, allowing revs to increase briefly and and them slowing down will do no damage but sustained running at higher revs will potentially allow too much heat to build up. The advice given by those who have studied this matter properly is to treat the engine gently for 1,000 miles, avoiding running when cold, so fewer but longer journeys, and very importantly keep the engine spinning rather than labouring at low revs. Don't allow the revs to drop, aid to be between 3,000 - 4,000 rpm. (so use manual mode if a PDK gearbox)

Once at 1,000 miles increase the the maximum revs you allow in increments of say 500 rpm every 1000 miles, so reaching the maximum 7,800 by 1800 miles.

This seem to makes some sort of sense to me.

 

[Neil Chadwick]

Jeff , Graham

All very valid points which I fully agree with.

Leading on from this on the basis that some expected wear/ high spot pick up etc on facing materials will occur during break in , I wonder how many people change the oil/filter at this point?

Neil

 

[Motorhead]

Neil,

I doubt that many owners bother to change the oil and filter after circa 2,000 miles … especially if they’re PCP/lease cars! Although modern manufacturing and assembly methods should minimise the amount of muck swilling around in the lubrication system, I always reckon that it’s worth changing the filter at least.

Jeff

 

[PaulJ]

Some conservative driving gave me 42mpg which for a 4ltr I think is pretty good however, 'er in doors took it to a meeting this morning to show her Boss and, needless to say, it came back with only a quarter of a tank left! Mr Tesco quite happily relieved me of £84.02 for 50.95ltrs of his finest Momentum!

I have noticed the Pirellis are quite a bit quieter than the Michellin PS4S.

I'm always very careful of allowing the oil temp to get above the blue marker before giving it zee beans. I think being patient with the running in period will pay dividends in the long term.

Dan

42 mpg! Does anyone else get anywhere near this as I have never bettered 32 mpg, and my norm in mixed driving is 27 mpg... (Just a thought, we all agree that there are 4.54 litres in a gallon don't we)? []