Cayman 718 GPF Failure

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Dan,

Without prejudice

Thanks for your post, we will get to the end of this, and make sure that anybody that paid for a GPF, will get compensated.

Afterall all this fuss about wrong engine oil, driving style, and an exhaust that didn't need replacing, can not be forgotten about.

Regards
Dave

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Guys & Girls

Without Prejudice

Well another Cayman GPF owner contacted me today with another supposedly blocked particulate filter.

Off we go again, requesting page 42 of the Val report, to see and confirm the unbelievable reading data, that's proven time after time to be inaccurately pointing towards a GPF filter fault.

First of all the only way the dealers can re set the oil ash % level, is to carry out a regeneration, this sometimes works, sometimes it doesn't, usually this also includes lots of road testing mileage carried out, to no avail.

What usually happens is the oil ash % level comes back, sometimes as high as 50% , after a very short time, usually within 1,000 miles.
Sometimes even on a road test after a new modified filter has been fitted.

Remember the internal Porsche document that came out last month saying if the regeneration didn't work, then they would have to fit a new modified GPF filter, which has been available from December 2019.

Now the problem is, that when a new modified filter is fitted, they still have to carry out a regeneration to re set the % value.

We all know now that a regeneration on a petrol GPF filter takes care of the soot, and each time this happens it makes a very small amount of ASH in the process.

My question is, when the dealer and Porsche Technical see the ASH figure have gone from 100% to 0.00%, the one question they should be asking is where has the ASH gone, if it was actually there in the first place.

Ash, if its present in a filter cannot be removed by a regeneration, after all its ASH and its a solid.

I said on my last post that we should treat the GPF filter system as a service item and its function should be checked when ever the car goes in for a service or any repair work.

After all its an important Emission device that needs monitoring before the ASH gets to 100%, puts on the engine light, and message on the dashboard.

You would also expect a blocked GPF filter not to be taking care of exhaust emissions efficiently and that's really important for all of us.

And the fact we have never seen, a soot regeneration warning message on these 718 cars, and also the last two 991.2 2019 vehicles we have dealt with, enforces the need to carry out this check.

On Friday, hopefully I will be looking at the software on one of our faulty cars, to see specifically how its been programmed.

Will keep you updated

Regards
Dave

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Sorry Guys & Girls

Forgot to mention, we now have 49K views on this GPF subject with the Porsche Club
Dave

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi it's me again

Without prejudice

Just had a call from another Cayman 718 owner that had the oil ash % reading re set to zero by the dealer 800 miles ago.

Its now unfortunately at 86%, thats only 14% to go, then the light will come back on.

Another example of our ongoing software issue.

Kind Regards
 Dave

 

[Paul-718gts]

Another thing to note Dave is on all forced regens carried out by the OPC they are supposed to also change the oil and the oil filter as part of their standard practice.. I guess this is either because the process cooks the engine or a way of increasing service margins££.
I guess neither are good for the owner.

And more importantly based on the facts and evidence we have not necessary.

 

[Paul-718gts]

As Dave would say,

Without Prejudice…..

Well, as a very quick up date my car has been with the OPC for 14 weeks next Tuesday, 3rd GPF fitted after under 14,000 miles car from new.This time a new GPF and not a warranty refurb was fitted and it showed over 50% full after 20 mile road test drive.
As far as I am aware the car has had more mechanical tests completed over the last 14 weeks than a space shuttle prior to launching and the Brand still can’t find the root cause.
Yet again I have mentioned the software as a possible root cause but for whatever reason the brand appear to be steering around this potential root cause.. I guess the ultimate question is why.. ?

I can only assume any potential software updates needed on anything related to emissions needs to be reported to the appropriate authorities. I am sure we can all remember the recent VW diesel gate saga where it all went wrong.

From reading a lot of posts on the 718 forum a lot of owners appeared to have overcome this issue by replacing the CAT with a aftermarket part and tuning the car by adjusting the software to overcome any challenges… and in some instances gain more power..

I guess that’s fine if your car isn’t under warranty as long as you still pass the MOT emissions test.

As far as I am aware the club hasn’t been able to get a response from the Brand and there have been no follow ups to last months PP article as promised..

I guess everyone is hoping this issue is going to go away.. well it’s not as I believe we are up to 44,000 views.

Dave keep up the good work I am sure we are close to opening Pandora’s box

Well as a short update my car is still at the dealership, I can’t remember if it’s been 16 or 17 weeks next Tuesday, I have kind of lost count.
4 different Gold technicians with over 100 years of experience between them and we are still no further forward.
As far as I am aware they are awaiting a response from Stuttgart as they have tried everything the experts ??? at Reading have suggested.
Hopefully for all of us affected this might mean that someone in Germany is burning the midnight candles writing a new programme or algorithm to resolve this once and for all.

We can only pray and wait in anticipation……

 

[911hillclimber]

You must be very irritated by all this, 16 weeks and counting.
Is your car the first in the UK to get a tech referral to Germany?
Can't help thinking this is a positive move and shows Porsche UK are at least trying.

 

[Paul-718gts]

Only time will tell, but to be honest I don’t hold out much hope with the guys in Germany….
I guess eventually if there is no response in 2 weeks , we will have no choice and will be forced to go public..

 

[Scrounger]

I'd do it now Paul. 17 weeks and Porsche are unable to find a fix is unacceptable. I bet they get one within 4 weeks once it goes to press.

Dan

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Guys & Girls

Without prejudice

I was out yesterday afternoon at a local Porsche gathering and unfortunately had another 718 owner with a supposedly blocked filter and the dealer demanding 9K to fix the car contact me.

Thankfully the owner checked out our forum and made contact.

I asked him to contact the dealer and get them to send him a copy of page 42, the GPF readings.

And sure enough they refused to send it to him, so I advised him to go back to the dealership to get sight of the report, which he did.

He couldn't take a photo but was allowed to write down the settings.

Which he sent me, the usual nonsense as always, so I sent him some information to send to the dealer to move things along.

How long is this going to go on, the dealers have been sent the information on how to deal with the DTC P242F, oil ash % to high on the 3rd March.

This information tells them what to do and confirms that modified GPF filters were fitted post December 2019 on our cars.

So why is this dealer asking the owner to pay for this GPF, have they not read the letter.

Since we started our campaign to challenge the dealers and Porsche on what is clearly a miss-diagnosis on this fault regarding the filter, we have never mentioned the dealers involved.

I suggest from now on we name the dealer involved, if they carry on trying to charge our owners for filters they do not need.

If all the dealers had carried out a basic exhaust back pressure check and confirmed no pressure in the exhaust, just has the differential pressure sensor reading always show on page 42.

And had sent this information to the Technical Department to monitor and discuss, this could have saved Porsche fitting these very expensive exhaust parts, not upsetting our owners, and they could have focused their attention on the software.

Which is where we are now, if you agree we should highlight which dealer is involved, please reply back on the forum.

I will keep you informed on our progress with this dealer.

Regards
Dave

 

[Motorhead]

Hi Dave,

Whilst I agree that highlighting the dealers who are diagnosing the fault incorrectly would be a good idea I fear that “naming and shaming” is against the forum rules, so best to check them before proceeding.

Jeff

 

[Wrightrubber]

Hi Dave

Without Prejudice

You are right, how long is this going to go on, dealers asking customers for £9K when they have had the letter on the 3rd March informing them how to deal with this situation. The fact that they are still insisting owners pay for GPFs that are not full and replacing them doesn't solve the problem, as Paul can testify, is either sheer incompetence or profiteering, either way Porsche and the dealerships ought to be ashamed, but i'm afraid it's profits before customers!!!!

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Thanks Jeff, Mark.

Without prejudice

I will speak to John Dickinson, see if we can proceed.
But wrong diagnosis needs challenging, and this is clearly the case, as all the cars with the modified filters fitted are coming back.

Thanks Mark for your support, you highlited this issue 2 years ago and they are still trying to charge our owners.

If they carry on they will destroy the 2019 718 cars reputations going forward, and they cannot be allowed to do this.
Regards
Dave

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Morning Guys & Girls

Some good news for a change

WE HAVE JUST REACHED 50K VIEWS ON OUR 718 GPF CAMPAIGN

I would like to personally thank every body that's followed us on this journey to try and resolve this issue on these cars.

It just shows that if we push on and not except that having to replace a very Expensive Emission Device on our cars is acceptable, then we need to keep going.

Thanks again

Dave

 

[911hillclimber]

I have competed at hillclimbs for 35 years and know the paddock well.
There are a lot of Caymans competing, from mild to wild.

This topic of '2019 cars' came up last weekend in the paddock, and few of the runners are PCGB people...
Word is spreading.

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi 911Hillclimber

Without Prejudice

Thanks for that good news, I will be going to the Harewood Hill climb event in May, so it will be good to chat to anyone that's interest in our campaign.

Unfortunately we had 2 more owners with GPF issues contact us over the weekend.

The usual, your filters blocked, 9K to fix it, and no you can't see the GPF diagnostic report.

I would like to offer another thought process challenging our dealers insistence that these fiters are blocked 100%.

Please look at this screenshot information below.

Remember the Catalytic Convertor and GPF filter are one unit on these cars.

Funny we have not seen, or heard of any of these codes being present on any of our cars.

Hopefully Porsche Technical could give us an answer of why these Cat codes are not present

Why are Porsche Technical not looking at the lack of back pressure in these filters, they have all this data from the Vehicle Analysis Logs, they won't let us see.

It's been the same on all the cars I have dealt with.

The delay in repairing Paul's car confirms that they are looking in the wrong place, two modified GPF filters fitted within 800 miles.

Two of our vehicles have had complete engine strips looking for signs of oil consumption, and nothing was found to be wrong.

In their belief that the Ash content is real.

So why is it taking so long, and why are dealers still trying to charge our owners, when they know it's not the drivers fault, these cars are failing and they certainly do not need a new filter.

Regards
Dave

 

[Scrounger]

Because unless you go public, Porsche will just brush it under the carpet just like VW did with diesel gate.

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Scrounger,

Without prejudice

It didn't stay under the carpet long, end result was a fine around 4.1 billion.

That was concerning the control of gas emmisions, we are looking at the control of these petrol particulate emision systems on our cars, and why Porsche had to bring in a modified GPF filter within the first year of production in 2019.

Thankfully they admitted this on the 3rd March just gone.

An internal document was posted out to all the dealers with instructions on what to do when the DTC code P242F comes on, oil ash exceed.

We just need to hang on, we have proved 100% it's software, we just need more evidence to push this point.

We have plenty of patience, and this should now be covered by a recall.

The dealers surley can not continue with this blatant course of miss diagnosis, bearing in mind they have seen and are aware of this important and relevant document.

In future our owners when faced with this situation will make an appointment with the dealerships Service Manager, or General Manager, and discuss the existence of this information and its content.

The owner will then request that a case number is raised with Porsche Customer Care and the Technical Department, on the basis of this known, and proven case of a Manufacturing Emission Defect on our Cars.

Two years of our research and all the owners experiences, and data collected will support these cases.

Let's hope common sense will prevail.

Regards
David

 

[Paul-718gts]

Hi All,

Quick update on my car -

PAG have advised dealership to fit a new DME to my car late last week.
This arrived from Germany yesterday and is in this process of being fitted and tested.
At this point I am unaware if this is based on an original spec part or has been modified in any way.

Will update once I have results back to me by OPC.

 

[Paul-718gts]

The current situation for Paul and others affected is beyond farcical Dave, compounded by Porsche’s stonewalling on the issue when it’s obvious that something appears to be wrong with the software, requiring investigation at the very least.

Dan’s suggestion of a software update leads me to ask where the GPF monitoring software resides? If it’s in the DME itself that leads me to suppose that this could require a complete DME replacement, otherwise you’d assume that Stuttgart would have instructed the dealers to conduct a software update as a matter of course? Do you have any insight on the subject?

In Paul’s case it’s clear that replacing the GPF for the third time - and presumably with the latest-spec component - still hasn’t solved the problem, so it could be that replacing the DME will be the next step?

Jeff

Jeff,
You did call this out several weeks ago …