8000 rpm 3.2 engine?

[911hillclimber]

Ha!
Yes, the conversation was quite simple.
We have been hillclimbing for 30 years this year, started with my fab 911 which I still have for 14 years, a hot Impreza with 360 bhp which was magic, and now the Lola fo the last 10 years.
She has been to every event bar one in those years, she is quite famous for this 'dedication', she knows I need keeping an eye on...
Getting to the end of the conveyor belt very soon, messing with a race car is one thing, the bloody trailer is yet another!
Thus, she says I need to do this last push as the swan-song of the car before I hang the helmet up or sell the Lola and peddle the Boxster instead in the standard road class or the Porsche Speed Championship (which is superb to be part of).
So, we carry on!

The cams can't be made until December in the USA which is rather late, I would hope to be almost finished with the build by then, so asking Kent Cams if they can help me.

Finding gears is a game hence why so easy to miss a shift. Says something about the synchro on first that it will go from 6500 in second to first like a knife through butter.

 

[Motorhead]

Kudos to Mrs. H. for her dedication and for sticking with your passion for such a long time Graham. Impressive!

Hope Kent can accommodate you with the cams. I didn’t realise that they supplied them for Porsches. Quite a few options by the look of it.

Good old Porsche baulk-ring synchro … !!!

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Ian Heward commented:

Hi, 8,000rpm on a 3.2L 911 is not ideal for longevity, and will loose power considerably after 6,800. For one gear cornering we always change the late 915 Diff from 9;1 to a pre 1978 8;1 crown & pinion, that is the best way to overcome the 2 gear issue.

Alternatively you can look at new cams, Steel rods and a management system but that will run into a lot of money….

Hope this helps

Many thanks

Ian (Modified Technical assistant) ? Enquiries@theporscheshop.co.uk

 

[911hillclimber]

Thanks Ian.
I say 8K, but want north of 7500.
To do this a lot needs changing to keep it in one piece, and that will be around 6K so far on paper.
The diff has been changed but I can't recall to what, but iirc there are only 2 choices for the 915 box and mine is the rare one!
A taller diff ration will stunt acceleration, longer gear(s) will do the same, so pulling more revs will do it.

As part of this, what rpm will the stock but balanced rods with ARP bolts take?

 

[MoC2S]

..
we always change the late 915 Diff from 9;1 to a pre 1978 8;1 crown & pinion,
..
Ian (Modified Technical assistant) ?&nbsp Enquiries@theporscheshop.co.uk

8:1 or 9:1 would be a pretty unusual final drive .. pre '75 915s were 7:31 C&P for 4.42 final drive ratio, H series on 'a more robust 8:31 assembly' (final drive 3.875) according to Frere .. later G50 /20 or /21 were 9:31, for instance, so even longer.

cheers, Maurice

 

[911hillclimber]

Just done my 'Spread Sheet'
Thought some would find the following prices interesting, all £ and inc vat
Wossner pistons: 1200
Pauter rods: 1500
DC60 or maybe softer Cams/spring kit/rockers: 2100
Crank bearings: 214
Gasket kits: 252
Flywheel bolts: 30
Rocker cover gaskets: 39
7100 rpm rotor arm: 34
intermediate brgs: 26
Loctite 574: 26
Crank oil seal: 34

Twin plug head machining, my estimate, 350
WEVO gearbox mod: 1700

Misc bottles/potions/cleaning fluids: 300

Total: around £6k ($ v £ @ 1.38)

Ignition?

 

[ralphmusic]

Ian is trying to get back on to the forum having changed his company email and web address but has emailed me his comments:

"Hi, your spec sheet looks fine to me, and should produce the power needed. To answer some of your points;

Standard 3.0/3.2/3.3/3.6 rods are good for around 7k max provided they are shot pined and all 6 are within 0.5 grams (which can be tuned by grinding on the caps heal).

This rev limit is due to the rod length and weight in main, as you will know all 2.0/2.2/2.4/2.7 cars run a shorter, lighter rod so are good for 7500-8,000, that is where the confusion / rule of rev’s splits.

Pauter Steel rods will overcome this for the later, longer stroke engines.

Pistons are a personal choice, we tend to use the JE one’s as they offer good compression ratio options, and all are based around the 2.7RS Hemi design with super deep pockets, so you can put any cam duration or cam lift in at any time after the initial build without the need for any piston re-machining.

If you are running the motronic ignition (std Carrera ECU) the only mods you can look at are an adjustable Fuel regulator, bigger injectors (like Green Giants), and a chip. All of which will need to be either dyno-ed, or setup on a rolling road."


Hope this helps……

Happy modifying Ian

 

[911hillclimber]

Thank you for passing Ian's thoughts on to me and this thread.
Hadn't thought about valve pocket depth, 'assumed' all these Porsche pistons would accommodate the cams that could go in, looks like a question to wossner direct.
Only looking at Wossner as I can buy them from Design911 so avoiding import/Brexit hassle.
Have settled on Pauter rods, just the cams to sort, but suspect I will simply go to the Dougherty cams from the USA and take the $$$ hit. At least they are clear on what is needed. This also gives me the lift to give to Wossner.
Getting close to ordering the Big Items.
Gulp.

 

[911hillclimber]

ht this might be of interest instead of word. This is the car on the rollers this April:

262 bhp @ 6400 rpm

https://youtu.be/c8pzuNoSi0w

 

[911hillclimber]

Kent cams have come up trumps!
They can supply the GE60, the equivalent to the Dougherty cam and springs to suit at a good price and I have no duty etc hassle.

All down to the pistons now. Waiting to see if Wossner say their pistons can take the GE60 lift.
Awkwardly, the Pauter rods are on 8 week lead time so ordering those tomorrow.

Starting to come together at last.

 

[911hillclimber]

With some help from a fellow Porsche hill climber, found a source for JE pistons at a good price, HOWEVER, not sure that price includes rings, pins and pin clips.
Too impatient to wait till Monday..anyone know if the JE piston sets come with rings etc?

 

[Motorhead]

Graham,

I’d be very surprised if the pistons didn’t come with rings, gudgeon pins and circlips as a set. Their US website seems (I think?) to indicate that this is the case.

Good news on Kent Cams coming up trumps, so the only delay will be the conrods.

Time to raid the pension pot and SKI …!

Hope you get a chance to catalogue the rebuild in pics.

Jeff

 

[911hillclimber]

Yes, another has said his set had therings etc, I hope so.
Rods are 8 weeks so tight to my schedule.
If I find soon Carrillo rods quicker, I'll pay the price.
Cant afford a delay!

 

[911hillclimber]

So:
We are off!
Just ordered a set of JE pistons and Carrillo rods from a supplier in the UK.
Lead time a real issue, 12 weeks on the rods and 6 on the pistons, wrong way round really, but it is the same for anything from the USA.
Everyone quoting much the same, so in the lap of the gods.
If I get these parts by Xmas I'll be pleased.(surprised).
Rods will come with the super strong bolts so good for 8,000 rpm and more.
I'll strip the engine down and clean and clean it in preparation, the 3 months after Xmas to the start of the season in April should be long enough to screw it back together and get it running.
Have decided to twin plug the engine from the start using the comprehensive Clewett system still keeping the carbs.

Next purchase is the WEVO gearbox selector from Twin Spark in Europe, but that is in stock! At least I can get the box done.
Cams from Kent Cams so that should be ok and all the other parts are easy UK supply.

 

[IanHeward]

Yes they come complete with everything

 

[911hillclimber]

Thank you Ian.
I hope they can deliver before Xmas, but I'm not confident.
the engine comes out tomorrow now my old 911 is in storage and I have some good garage space.
These engines take a lot of space when stripped!
Have secured a source to machine the heads for twin spark plugs, and will order the cams this week too.
The shiftgate from WEVOs agent TwinSpark is in the post,maybe, coms are not good, but I hope I'm right.

 

[911hillclimber]

With all the space I need time for the engine to come out and see how things are down the exhaust ports.

Bit of a fiddle, but so easy compared to a 911 extraction, just keep on getting CV grease everywhere....
Remembered to get the light weight flywheel off before roping up:



Removed the one header and that came off well, inverted the engine to get to the other and the dry sump scavenge pipe off, thought I had the flood of oil from every hole sussed, but not quite.

However, the 6 exhaust port are just perfect, this is a great little engine!







A hole like this is one BIG opportunity..
Was originally to have a V8 but bought the 911 engine instead on the day.

 

[Motorhead]

Nice! And no rusted manifold bolts to deal with there Graham. []

Keep going. ??

Jeff

 

[911hillclimber]

Race cars are so nice to work on.
Mega access, everything sort of clean, no rust or as you say Jeff rusty bolts.
This afternoon got the one side all apart, 3/4 of the other side before being summons-in by The Boss.

The gut of this engine are so very nice.
Hope the heads on the current side are as good as #1/2/3 cylinders. No scoring of those barrels, fingers crossed.
Pics and a summary tomorrow I hope.

 

[911hillclimber]

Not too sure if there is much interest in the grubby end of this engine, but I'll carry on posting:

Bob Watson told me it takes a week to strip, clean and inspect a 911 air cooled, doubt he is far wrong.

The engine is down to the point where the barrels will fall off the pistons if I let them.
Everything came off to plan with one small exception and that was getting the cam housings off the heads. The large contact area of the sealent stops the parts parting with a tap of a plastic head hammer, so resorted to a good heating up with my hot air gun. Takes about 5 mins of overall warming before the sealant is softening, and a gentle lever with a good screwdriver saw them both ease off the heads.

Each head removed, but I was not expecting the difference in torque on the sleeve nuts, some 'loose' and some not so loose, not as tight as I expected. Studs all ok, so maybe a new digital torque wrench for me this Xmas!

The bores are to die for, the cams are exceptional, all 1986 parts, but the heads/pistons are quite carbon coated, far more than I expected, bit too rich maybe.

Pressure is on to get the heads 'clean' so they can go to the machinist in Warrington to be twin plugged.

Anyone know of a good quick way to get all the old orange sealant off?





Organised!!