PDK clutch calibration problem

[Mondo997]

Good Day,

i have a 997.2 PDK Carrera S, it had a problem with the displacement sensor so i had it replaced with a T-Design part recently. The gearbox recalibration was complete and now trying to re-program the clutch calibration. it has been over a week now and it always gives an error. "Data Record for Clutch calibration is invalid" also on occasion when you try to initiate the "clutch Teach" it will come up with "Function cannot be performed, threshold not programed or programmed incorrectly"

I have heard that this calibration has to be performed with the engine / gearbox up to temperature, at the moment it seems like it is going over temperature before the calibration is complete, then you have to let the car cool down to re-start the process. which means maybe 2 attempts / day. I live in the caribbean so ambient temps are around 32C every day..

any thoughts / advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Motorhead]

Hi Raymond,

Sorry to hear about your problem. I’m a "manual” man myself rather than PDK so unfortunately I can’t really help, but am rather intrigued by this. Looking online it seems that the clutch calibration/re-learn procedure requires a PIWIS analyser (or equivalent?), although it appears that the Cobb tuning device* also facilitates this operation. I presume that you didn’t use an official Porsche dealership (is one available?) otherwise I’d have thought that they’d have sorted the problem, so how did you carry out the calibration?

Jeff

* https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PRS/pages/98017616/How+To+Perform+PDK+Clutch+Re-Learn

 

[Mondo997]

Jeff,

thanks for the reply, the guy looking at the car is an ex porsche mechanic, so has the correct equipment to perform the calibration etc: he did all the PDK re-calibration after the position sensor was installed.

Raymond

 

[Motorhead]

Thanks Raymond. I don’t know if you’ve seen this relevant link but I assume that your mechanic used this or a similar procedure to replace the aftermarket T-Design displace sensor? Quite an involved process … with plenty of things to go wrong!

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1256814-repairing-my-pdk-gearbox-experience-and-guide.html

As you say, it seems that both the engine and transmission oils need to be up to temperature to perform the procedure so high ambient temperatures may be a factor, although the cooling system should be able to cope.

I have to say that from the messages you’re getting it sounds more like the problem is related to the displacement sensor data not being recognised by the PDK module. I really don’t know how you can proceed but I think that a conversation with your mechanic is in order. Maybe he’s done this job before, but my understanding is that the dealers are unable to carry out work of any kind which involves stripping the PDK transmission because Porsche won’t allow ZF to supply parts.

Jeff

 

[malarcy]

Good Day,

i have a 997.2 PDK Carrera S, it had a problem with the displacement sensor so i had it replaced with a T-Design part recently. The gearbox recalibration was complete and now trying to re-program the clutch calibration. it has been over a week now and it always gives an error. "Data Record for Clutch calibration is invalid" also on occasion when you try to initiate the "clutch Teach" it will come up with "Function cannot be performed, threshold not programed or programmed incorrectly"

I have heard that this calibration has to be performed with the engine / gearbox up to temperature, at the moment it seems like it is going over temperature before the calibration is complete, then you have to let the car cool down to re-start the process. which means maybe 2 attempts / day. I live in the caribbean so ambient temps are around 32C every day..

any thoughts / advice would be much appreciated.

I assume the clutch teach function is driven by piwis. I am wondering if there are any other calibration processes required before that step or if you need to clear all the calibration data (gearbox adaptations) in case it has some number in there from the original fault that is driving it nuts.

 

[Motorhead]

Paul,

The Rennlist link referenced in my post #4 references performing the calibration with PIWIS II or III, although whether or not an alternative analyser would perform the task is open to question. The recalibration procedure appears to be an automatic process which presumably is programmed into the PDK module, and I’ve no idea what access PIWIS gives to the data in order to do what you’re suggesting. I think the main problem is that because replacing the displacement sensor isn’t an official Porsche procedure no guidance will be available, so anyone attempting a repair is somewhat out on a limb.

Jeff

 

[malarcy]

Also found this Rennlist thread - documents included are factory docs for the calibration and adaptation learning.... as you say it's not an official fix so there isn't an official process but the factory troubleshooting doc describes some very particular "dance moves" in relation to calibrations. ( some of the info may of course be duplicated across threads)

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1172826-guide-to-repairing-a-pdk-transmission.html

 

[Motorhead]

Yes, I’d seen that link too Paul. It incorporates the link I referenced and covers other repair information, the valve body in particular, as well as info on various sensors. I hadn’t noted the docs you mentioned, so there may be something in there which could be useful for Raymond’s mechanic.

As usual it’s the American’s can-do spirit which is pushing against Porsche’s stance on not repairing these units, many of which probably will have 100,000+ miles on them. I think that a replacement transmission is about £12k-£14k fitted, which means that many cars will be scrapped.

Jeff

 

[Mondo997]

Thanks for all the feedback, sorry for late reply, now landed in Miami en route to work in Turkey, so apparently my mechanic was not using the most up to date software, he has now purchased this and should be able to re-start the calibration process in the coming days... I bought the 911 in March and to date it has not made it to the supermarket and back without the need for a tow truck. 26K miles on the clock...

hoping that after this few months in the garage that all will be working smoothly. T-Design only been offering the replacement displacement sensor for around 6 months at this point.. so hopefully it will prove reliable enough... will keep you posted.

Raymond

 

[Motorhead]

That’s really bad luck with your Porsche experience so far Raymond. Fingers crossed the software update will fix the problem … it’ll be interesting to hear the outcome.

Jeff

 

[Mondo997]

The outcome is that after 9 weeks in Turkey, 4 weeks home and another 4 weeks in Turkey i have still not got the car back... latest in the saga was that the TCM could be faulty and that's why it would not take the clutch calibration... it was taken apart and it did look like there may be some sign of damage.. It has apparently been "repaired" but to date no luck with calibration etc: if you know of any decent porsche mechanic that may be interested in a few days in the caribbean let me know.. i am sick of the 911 now.. I should have stuck to Japanese cars.

 

[Motorhead]

Sorry to hear about this continuing saga Raymond … very frustrating for you I’m sure. Were any error codes flagged-up specific to the transmission module which might indicate a problem there? I suppose you could always take a punt on replacing it in the hope that it will sort the problem but it’s not guaranteed, and you could be pouring good money after bad.

Unfortunately it sounds as though either you’re going to have to replace the transmission to get a working car (at very high cost []) or sell it for whatever you can get, which would be a very sad end to your Porsche experience.

All the best and please keep us posted on any outcomes.

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

Raymond,

Just to add that as you’ve found out to your cost Porsche don’t consider the PDK transmission to be repairable and as such don’t supply spare parts. As a result there isn’t a body of knowledge available - even amongst the Porsche dealerships - for anyone like your mechanic who’s trying to fix a problem, either mechanical or electrical, and despite the attraction of a trip to the Caribbean I fear that’ll you’ll struggle to find someone to assist you. Hopefully you’ll prove me wrong!

Jeff

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Do ZF use this box (or similar) in any other car that can be serviceable?

 

[Motorhead]

I don’t think so Rodney. The ZF 7-speed dual-clutch transmission to which we’re referring was used in the 2009 911, Cayman and Boxster, with a higher torque version in the 911 Turbo. A variant was also used in the Panamera and Macan.

I’ve a feeling that VW-Audi have their own dual-clutch designs (DSG).

Jeff

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Haven’t Mercedes in the past also used ZF boxes? I know Porsche shared a similar tiptronic box, just wondering if that might still be the case.

 

[Motorhead]

I think that Mercedes design and manufacture their own transmissions and I have in mind that Porsche used one of their torque converter transmissions at one time; maybe it was on a 911 Turbo which required a high torque capacity ‘box?

Jeff

 

[Mondo997]

Been doing some thinking while stuck off shore.. i am going to order up a new TCM module for the C2S, it did show some signs of issues when it was removed (see pic) definite heat in there at some point. If that does not work i think I will ship it back to the UK and send for repair (probably a new transmission) and then put up for sale in the UK. It has 27k miles on the clock and having lived in the caribbean all its life is completely rust free. hopefully it will atl east let me break even on the car. they seem to be increasing in value so fingers crossed... the TCM should be with me in a couple of weeks and i will know soon after if it has solved the problem.

 

[Mondo997]

TCM internals

 

[Motorhead]

I’m no expert but that TCM (and its cover?) doesn’t look good Raymond … maybe beyond repair even if you could find an electronics specialist to do the job? Trying a replacement might be worth a punt, although of course nothing’s guaranteed.

If you’re planning to ship the car to the UK for repair and sale you’ll need to do all the necessary sums beforehand, and being an import might impact the sale price especially if it’s not UK spec.

Good luck!

Jeff