Which one?

[trev260764]

No David it wasn't! Think I lost out there. The KA should sell tomorrow so will be able to look in earnest then. Still looking at the Lux (taken your advice!) - there seems to be very little choice at the right price though. The two I have seen advertised locally seem to be fairly decent on paper

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/PORSCHE+944/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-10-18-240-4294967212-4294967213/advert.action?R=200832315903966&distance=15&postcode=yo267pt&channel=CARS&make=PORSCHE&model=944&min_pr=2000&max_pr=4000&max_mileage=

very low miles but without leather (I would really prefer at least part-leather), and still £3500. And one which I have provided a link previously

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/PORSCHE+944/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-10-18-240-4294967212-4294967213/advert.action?R=200831315731002&distance=25&postcode=yo267pt&channel=CARS&make=PORSCHE&model=944&min_pr=2000&max_pr=4000&max_mileage=

nice looking with half-leather, Cup alloys, but will only drop to £3800! There's LOADS of S2's for this money!!

Mmm...

 

[Peter Empson]

It's pretty rare to find leather in 944's, it was a very expensive option so in my experience it's more commonly found on Turbo's. However the part vinyl seats (as I believe are pictured in the link above) are very good and hard wearing too, so I wouldn't loose too much sleep over it. I still prefer the all fabric seats for spirited driving as they're grippier, but they often look a little more worn by now.

 

[zcacogp]

Trev,

Both of those look hugely over-priced; I strongly suspect that they will take a long time to sell if the vendors stick to their prices.

Half-leather is actually half-vinyl. Don't be deceived by it. (I'm not even sure if the full-leather has genuine leather bolsters.)

Also, don't be put off by high milage; I happen to think that low-mileage is a bad thing when buying cars. These machines really need to be driven to keep them in good nick, and low mileage means either lots of short journeys (very bad news) or not much use (not such good news either.) My S2 went from doing about 4,000 miles a year to doing about 14,000 miles a year when I changed jobs (see other thread on here), and it changed from being a sulky, slightly reluctant thing that used oil and drank petrol to something that starts on the button, revs more freely, pulls better and uses much less fuel and oil.

I don't know where in the country you are, and having looked at the PH classifieds I agree when you say there aren't many lux's around, but this one looks pretty cheap and potentially OK:

http://pistonheads.com/sales/691585.htm

(With the sill proviso.)


Oli.

 

[trev260764]

Ah! Didn't realise that there was a vinyl option. Guessed it was leather...

 

[Peter Empson]

I agree with Oli regards those two cars. For the money these look much more interesting...

Lovely colour, although the description leaves a few questions unanswered:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/607103.htm

Sounds like a nice sorted example, looks pretty too (for a red car)
http://pistonheads.com/sales/694363.htm

 

[Fen]

To clarify, leather facings is the most common leather option. That is centres and bolsters in leather on the front seats only. Any cloth in the seat and the "leather" is actually "leatherette", as are the seat backs and rear seats in "leather" cars. There was a full leather option which included front and rear seats (Including the backs of the front seats) and probably the dash and centre console, but as it was close on 5 grand in the 80's it wasn't popular on 944s. Even leather facings cost 1600 notes or so I believe.

To summarise (for oval dash cars - I don't know much about square dash models):

• Standard was cloth centres with vinyl elsewhere. Cloth on the door cards to match was an option (but possibly included as standard in the UK Lux specification).
• Optional is full cloth - basically adds the bolsters and the middle bit of the back seat. Not sure if it adds cloth door cards or if that was still a separate option.
• Optional is leather facing to front seats with vinyl bolsters and a vinyl rear seat. Includes vinyl door cards.
• Optional is full leather - entire seats, dash, console and door cards (I believe - never seen one close enough to be sure)
• Gear gaiters and steering wheels are always leather.

Cloth available was "Studio" which is tartan, "logo" which is a hard wearing, smooth cloth with "Porsche" embroidered through it or "pinstripe" which is a velour with a contrast pinstripe through it. All were available (sometimes not for the whole production run) in black, marine blue (dark, to '90), cobalt blue (brighter, from '91), linen (light cream, to '90), classic grey (from '91), light cream (virtually white, from '91) or burgundy (entire run?). Square dash cars could also have a brown or beige interior and there was "pascha" fabric which looks like a chequered flag or "berber" which is a grey tweed finish on those as well as pinstripe back then.

These days I personally think pinstripe is a bit "living in the 80's" (not in a good way) as velour is just so... [:'(], but it wears quite well. Studio can look good in some colours (full cloth might be a bit much, however), but in burgundy is the famous "pink tartan" of the Silver Rose. Logo still looks good today and is surprisingly hard wearing.

Last thing to note is that if a car has a black, blue or burgundy interior then that is absolutely everything including the headlining, steering wheel, gear gaiter, carpet. The lighter colours were teamed with a contrasting colour for steering wheel, dash top, door caps and headlining - either black or blue depending on the exterior, colour, but that didn't include the carpet - my Turbo has cream carpet and blue overmats...

 

[trev260764]

I have seen the red S2 listed and liked the look of it - and it's not too far away from me (i'm near York) - but you guys have put me off S and S2's.

See what I mean. This is cheaper than most decent quality Lux's!!

 

[trev260764]

Ta Fen. How the hell do you know all this stuff?

 

[zcacogp]

Fen,

That's helpful, thanks. 5 grand for full leather! Not cheap then!

I have seen (photos of) a 944 with white steering wheel and white gearknob. Would this have been an optional extra? (As an arrangement it struck me as being profoundly silly, as it would get grey and manky just about instantly, but it would probably have looked fantastic in a 1980's showroom, clean and brand new.)

I'd also suggest that you should buy a car on the mechanicals and bodywork - being more choosy about thinks like exterior colour, interior colour and optional extras will narrow down the choice of cars further, and may mean you wait even longer for the right one to come up at the right price. Just my $0.02's worth ... My S2 is about as basic as you could get in terms of options, but was sound so I bought it. Pinstripe ("living in the 80's") interior and all ...


Oli.

 

[swright]

Well i dived in head first and bought an 86 turbo for £2500 knowing id have to dig deep to get it to a good standard. It needs around £1000 spending on the body. And the interior is tatty and needs replacing really. It has a slight oil leak from the front crank seal so that's another £200+ so im told and needs new engine mounts. It has had 2 lots of belts in the last 5 years, the last change included pulleys and tensioners etc and it had a clutch 2 years ago. so most of the big engine/ oily bits bills were already sorted.

I have just forked out £350 for new front and rear brakes(fitted myself)

Its had a few issues such as a bad judder just before the turbo kicks in but that seems to have corrected itself after a played with the the mixture. Also one of the drive shafts has just disconnected itself from the gearbox but luckily it was just down to loose bolts.

I was lucky that its already chipped up and that the last owner chucked lots of dosh at it on a regular basis. He just never got round to sorting the bodywork out before he went through a messy divorce and needed to get rid of the car quickly.

I know its probably going to kick me in the head with the odd big bill here or there but you could say that about cars of much higher asking price/value.

So in my view its not all doom and gloom at the cheaper end of the market. You just have to weigh up the pros and cons of every car you look at. I looked at a number of newer and much more expensive cars that i simply walked away from without even turning the key.

It was the honesty of the seller that really drew me towards this car. He told me everything that needed doing and i haven't as yet come across anything he didn't tell me about. Oh and the massive kick in the back from the turbo of coarse[]

In all respects i think i have been lucky with this car. But like i said i knew about the work needed so was happy to part with the cash.

But my point realy is that you shouldnt be put off a car just because it needs work. Especially if you can do most of the work yourself as its labour that realy does raise the bills to frightening levels sometimes.

Stu

 

[Fen]

I changed my blue gear gaiter for a linen one and it was fine - I keep my leather (make that kept - aside bolsters in the Mini I haven't got a car with leather seats any more) clean with liquid leather and their conditioner makes it pretty wipe-clean without stickiness. Get a gaiter from Keith at Prestige Parts if you want one by the way. I don't know that I'd go with the steering wheel though both on looks and practicality. I guess you could special order what you wanted on the 944 - that became a full-blown option on the 968, much like the "BMW individual" idea.

Trev; my indie would inspect that car in Cornwall and give you a good appraisal for a reasonable cost, which I'd suggest is better than viewing yourself when you don't know the model all that well. I can pass on his phone number if you like. SteveS and Jon (RC18B911Turbo) use him also and could back up that he's fussy if you want him to be and realistic about what is essential and what is optional (though we agreed there would never be any optional with my car []).

I guess I picked this stuff up over the 12 years and 5 944s I've had - plus some books on them.

 

[Fen]

Oh, I forgot "can can" which is a bright red and black interior combo, perhaps with yellow piping to the seats. Aside the yellow (which I have seen but suspect it was not part of the factory can can) I actually really like it.

Leather is best if you have any damage as it can be replaced with any old leather coloured to match whereas the cloth used is now pretty rare in a lot of cases. Southbound have whatever stocks are available short of buying a seat and stripping it.

 

[trev260764]

That's very kind Fen - and probably what I need!

The issue with Cornwall is that it's bloody miles away. The red one in Notts is a quarter the distance - and to me seems similar (?). What would make you go for the Cornwall one before the Notts one matey?

You guys steering me (excuse the pun!) away from the Lux?

I do like the look of the White Lux in the link I provided earlier (and it is 8 miles from where I work - bonus...). Is such a low milage really a problem? The cost surely is - what's the highest I should offer the chancer?? I suppose he reckons that he has possibly the lowest mileage 944 in the country - and this is worth a grand (although I did see one with 24K on the clock - POA!!!)

 

[zcacogp]

Trev,

Shortage of Lux's mean that if we need to discuss cars for sale, we will have to discuss other ones ... like S2's. I'd suggest you look long and hard at your budget tho, and take on board the comments on the other thread about cost to run. S2's are another whole world of potential financial pain if you get one wrong (although they have advantages as well.)

You pays your money and takes your choice. But bear in mind that the right car may not come along immediately. (I looked at 7 S2's before I bought mine, and spent a long time on the telephone to the owners of another 4. It's still cost me well over half the purchase price since I bought it tho', in 2.5 years - excluding insurance and tax. And I know I bought a reasonably good one.)


Oli.

ETA: I'd say that low milage isn't necessarily a problem, but it is certainly not a good thing and definitely not something to pay extra for. It raises other potential problems, which need to be looked at carefully.

And where are you based - geographically? Mods appreciate it if you fill in your 'Location' in your profile.

 

[trev260764]

Filled it in! Sorry... Near York

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: trev260764

The issue with Cornwall is that it's bloody miles away. The red one in Notts is a quarter the distance - and to me seems similar (?). What would make you go for the Cornwall one before the Notts one matey?

The colour. Red (worst IMO) vs. Glacier blue (one of the best IMO). Aside personal preference, a red Porsche is a cliche, and looks like something from the 80's. A light metallic blue Porsche is instantly less dated looking to most people as the colour is more 21st century contemporary. Also I guess that it's local to someone I trust to do a good job inspecting it if not to you. Andy inspected a car for someone on here (was it Phil I?) which looked really nice to me, but which ultimately he recommended was over priced for the condition. Actually that car was red with black Studio full cloth and I actually liked the interior.

In terms of distance I bought my first 911 near Henley while I was living half way up the East coast of Scotland. My S2 coupe came from Surrey, my S2 cab from Chesterfield, a ropey Turbo I had for a short time came from Leeds and my current Turbo from the Midlands, all bought when I lived in Devon. Good 944s are rare enough that you almost have to consider them on a national level.

Of course I have no idea if the Cornish car is a nice one, but bear in mind if it has lived in the south west for a long time that it will have seen a lot less salty roads than cars from most of the rest of the UK, although in Cornwall that could be offset to a degree by a coastal climate. Don't underestimate the importance of the environment a car has lived in though - I'd never buy a car that has lived in Scotland for a long time having owned many that have done in the past and finding the hard way that they are all much rustier than cars from "darn saaarf". In fact a couple of years ago I accidentally bought an MX5 from Ayrshire as I didn't think to check when I bought it in Exmouth; it was rotten in the sills...

 

[appletonn]

Trev, get the red S2 - it's an 80s car so you want in the 'proper' 80s colour combo!

Besides, everyone (except Fen & Oli[]) knows red ones are faster.....[]

Just buy the best and most honest one you see, complete with wads of paperwork.

Good luck!

 

[trev260764]

Cheers again Fen. I undertand what you are saying re distance. In your postion with experience and understanding of the 944I can see that you ould rely on the views on friends at you have deleloped - I must admit that it would be good for someone to help with my decision! The point with Cornwall though is that it is still 400 miles / 6 hours away - and I would still like to see my first (!) one myself.

What's your initial thoughts Fen on this one which is virtually next door? And a Lux!

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/PORSCHE+944/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-10-18-240-4294967212-4294967213/advert.action?R=200832315903966&distance=15&postcode=yo267pt&channel=CARS&make=PORSCHE&model=944&min_pr=2000&max_pr=4000&max_mileage=

Even I know that he has it priced wrong!! If he will drop to £3K is that still too much? This is the one that has done 70K miles, and some of you reckon this can be an issue. Is it likely to have had a new clutch on these miles?

I'm more than happy to go and have a look. But don't wanna even put my coat on if you pro's can spot a flaw from a mile..

 

[Fen]

First reaction is that that is a square dash car. Some people like them (even say they prefer them), but for me they look a couple of decades older from the inside. The Cup replicas will be very heavy as they are to suit the early offset (or it has a 30mm wheel spacer on each corner). Those point aside it might be a decent car. Mileage sounds a bit low (not genuine or under used). I was never a Lux expert and I'm 7 months out of the UK so a bit out of touch generally, but the price looks way high for a square dash car. I like white personally.

By all means go and see it and get a feel for the early dash if it's local, but it doesn't look like a car you are likely to buy as it's not likely the seller will come down to what it's actually worth from £3,500.

 

[zcacogp]

Not Fen, but my thoughts are that it looks like a tidy Lux, it's white (which used to be a bad thing but is currently a trendy colour), the bodywork looks as good as it can from the photos (rust can be hidden quite easily for some snaps, you'd need to look at it in the tin to be sure), no pictures of the interior although he says it is good, toastrack rear undertrim which is a matter of taste (I don't happen to like it but others think it's great), "Recent Belts" - how recent?, "Loads of history" suggests NOT full service history (but it's the last 4 or 5 years which matter), 12months ticket is good, private plate is worth nothing.

If it's close, go and see it. You'll tell a load more from the owner (always buy cars from people you like - universal rule) and from seeing the car itself.

It's overpriced, and he almost certainly won't sell it in a hurry. If you go and see it, make a reasonable offer, he will decline (don't offend him), but it tells him you exist and are local and he could telephone you if he decides to accept your offer at a later stage. (If he really is selling because of a house move then he will soon get to a stage where he has to sell it.)


Oli.