Values - SINGER Scenerio ?

[924Srr27l]

When does a Modified car begin to add value ?

The Singer 911 is a Scenerio where a stock classic car is highly modified in many areas
to a high standard and performance upgrade package and then the costs are high as is the end Resale Value.

Could the same be done / had with a 924 ?

Generally any car not to mention a Porsche doesn't increase in Value when it's modified from standard,
If the wheels are changed, a different Exhaust fitted or all the brake and fuel lines replaced etc..the costs to
the owner do not usually increase the car's value?.

However if a car is restored and this can also be done in various lengths it's value can be recognised for the
expenditure and the amount can go up dependent on how extensive the work / Restoration is.

How much in this current market would a 1987 924S be worth if it was Fully stripped, rebuilt and Restored and
not Modified but left standard £25,000 ?

How much would an extensively modified car be valued at ? which has NOT got standard parts fitted or Porsche parts
More or less?

R

 

[pse_SC]

How long is a piece of string? [8|]

 

[924Srr27l]

How long is a piece of string? [8|]

It often feels like that may be the question? but the current market values must be struck with more
to it than that?

Last year a lot of classic car values rocketed and yes an asking price is one thing and what actually
is being bought and at what price is another.

My questions are more in regard to modified Porsche's like the modified Singer 911's, which obviously have a market and people
do pay the price and I suspect these car's hold their value which is what it's really about.

Could a Highly modified 924S be valued at a higher price than a standard one?

R

 

[Rotorhead]

Generally speaking, the market prefers ex-factory, original specification, low mileage and unmolested. Modified cars are less popular and often struggle to sell. In fact you can seriously devalue some cars if you modify them.

There are, of course, exceptions and the Singer 911s are built to a very high standard and, some might say, a 'work of art'. But it's not yet clear if they are an investment. It's very costly to have one built and they are usually spec'd to personal taste - whether they then sell at a premium, I don't know. Maybe, in the current crazy market, they might.

However, one point to consider. To the best of my knowledge, if you supply Singer with a 1990 'G' reg Porsche 964 donor vehicle, that's what goes on the V5, it's not a new car.

 

[924Srr27l]

Generally speaking, the market prefers ex-factory, original specification.
Modified cars are less popular and often struggle to sell. In fact you can seriously devalue some cars if you modify them.
There are, of course, exceptions.

Yes I agree, which is why I was pleasantly surprised that Porsche Club GB have recently valued my extensively modified 924S much higher
than I had anticipated. I thought it may of been a Typo but it was written also.

35K []

R
www.924srr27l.co.uk

 

[clyde]

Am I reading that right, they valued it at £35,000? No disrespect, it's a lovely car and I would be pleased to have it on my drive, but £35k? How on earth did they arrive at that and what would they value my 924 turbo with its 944 body kit at I wonder. Never mind my unmolested 993.

 

[AndrewCS]

Yes I agree, which is why I was pleasantly surprised that Porsche Club GB have recently valued my extensively modified 924S much higher
than I had anticipated. I thought it may of been a Typo but it was written also.

35K []

R
www.924srr27l.co.uk

Is that what you insure it for ?

 

[924Srr27l]

quote=clyde]
Am I reading that right, they valued it at £35,000? No disrespect, it's a lovely car and I would be pleased to have it on my drive, but £35k? How on earth did they arrive at that and what would they value my 924 turbo with its 944 body kit at I wonder. Never mind my unmolested 993.

As Churchill says Clyde: .............."Ooooooooh Yes "

Give them a whirl , fill out a couple of valuation forms and see what they think on your 2 machines!


Hence my Posting question: "When does a Modified car begin to add value ?"

And the reference to the

"Singer 911 is a Scenerio where a stock classic car is highly modified in many areas
to a high standard and performance upgrade package and then the costs are high as is the end Resale Value.

Could the same be done / had with a 924 ?"

Hence it looks like this is exactly what has happened,

The PCGB valuation Declares:
A Unique car in excellent condition having undergone extensive modification and refurbishment with a good service history.

Now with respect most forms they probably see are just the one A4 sheet.

My application was a comprehensive "pack" consisting of:

- 50+ Colour photos,
- photocopies (6 pages) of Porsche centre (Dick Lovett) Stamped and other Service History for the car since 1987
both engines (The original 2.5 and the USA Sourced 2.7)
- 12 Pages from an Excel Document listing every component new, upgraded, restored, and different to OE
Literally every nut /bolt and washer! (Total £37,000)
- Including all the labour and consultation costs from the UK, USA, & Finland.
- The car went to 5 different UK companies and locations over 3.5 years,(Engine builders, Chassis & Brake Specialists, Bodywork,
Windscreen, Gauges etc.. ) Motorsport race teams, and others Classic car & Porsche specialists.
- 8 page PDF breakdown and analysis on the 250kg weight reduction and not only every original part weighed and the replacement
or modified part too, but even a split into 3 sections illustrating where the numbers have been reduced on the car
- Add on top the car has it's own dedicated 200+ photographic build Website and in a nutshell the entire project has been well
documented and displayed.

This is handy for myself to look at and refer to, also any new prospective owner (But's it's currently NOT for Sale!)
and also has clearly assisted on this occasion when a Valuation was requested by PCGB.

R
www.924srr27l.co.uk

 

[924Srr27l]

www.924srr27l.co.uk

R Is that what you insure it for ?

Yes, An agreed Value with Classic Line Insurance
R

 

[924Srr27l]

See Attached PDF Weight Loss Distribution Sketch:

1. Rear (68kg)
2. Centre section (70kg)
3. Front (112kg)


Areas
Body 80kg
Interior 90KG
Suspension & Brakes 20Kg
Engine & Engine Bay 42Kg
Exhaust Manifold & system 18kg

R
www.924srr27l.co.uk




Download

 

[clyde]

Interesting Roger, so they have clearly taken the costs of the upgrades into account, which with a stock restoration I would not expect them to. That would mean that one would always be better upgrading a car like a 924 than restoring it, at least from a valuation perspective.
On the Singer value question I would expect their values to depreciate along the same lines as other modified cars such as Rufs. Whether they will rise again as, for example, yellowbirds have remains to be seen.

 

[924Srr27l]

Interesting Roger, so they have clearly taken the costs of the upgrades into account, which with a stock restoration I would not expect them to. That would mean that one would always be better upgrading a car like a 924 than restoring it, at least from a valuation perspective.
On the Singer value question I would expect their values to depreciate along the same lines as other modified cars such as Rufs. Whether they will rise again as, for example, yellowbirds have remains to be seen.

Sure, I can only assume that it's the Sheer Quantity and high quality of so many components, the workmanship and worldwide efforts to produce
a unique car that's not something that's been done very often (to the same extent and criteria) that has been recognised by the club.

R

 

[924Srr27l]

Maybe lots of Paintwork and pretty colours really does add value after all..........?
















R
www.924srr27l.co.uk

 

[vitesse]

In other words--bullsh*t,Roger-
Don't take offence-just a play on words-I really like your car & the effort you've put into it-wish I had that kind of money to spend on my £950 ebay track car![&o]

 

[924Srr27l]

Wash your mouth out Triumph Vitesse!

 

[PaulHere]

Wow what a car, even apart from the amazing work done to the Porsche Classic Restoration Competition cars, I have seen an increasing amount of incredible restoration work being carried out on cars, and this looks incredible.

It's taken me a while though for the penny to drop that the car in question is not a car owned by a singer...
Where can I learn more about Singer?

 

[924Srr27l]

Wow what a car, even apart from the amazing work done to the Porsche Classic Restoration Competition cars, I have seen an increasing amount of incredible restoration work being carried out on cars, and this looks incredible.
It's taken me a while though for the penny to drop that the car in question is not a car owned by a singer...
Where can I learn more about Singer?

No Paul I'm no singer ! and yes it took me 3.5 years to sort this project.
Have you not heard and seen of the American Company SINGER (Vehicle Design) who make bespoke 911's ?

http://singervehicledesign.com/

 

[PaulHere]

What makes a vehicle like yours a "Singer" designation? Does it have to be endorsed by them or meet a certain standard?
For instance if I wanted my standard 1983 924 2.0 to be a Singer what options are open to me?

 

[924Srr27l]

What makes a vehicle like yours a "Singer" designation? Does it have to be endorsed by them or meet a certain standard?
For instance if I wanted my standard 1983 924 2.0 to be a Singer what options are open to me?

No, I think your missing the point here, which is,

Usually when a car is modified and changed from it's original specifications, the money spent does not increase
the value of the car. But if the modifications are so extensive is there then a scenrio like a "Singer" bespoke car
where the extent of work, finish and uniqueness is so rare and exclusive it does retain or go higher than the input value?

My car has not been designed and built by Singer or by just one company in one place, but it's a similar situation where it's undergone a unique bespoke transformation with expertise and components from various UK and Worldwide Companies.

This Post asked "When does a Modified car begin to add value ?" & "Could the same be done & had with a 924 ?"
If this car is ever Sold I would only then know then if the expenditure has been retained or even if the project had made a profit.

I needed a Valuation to insure it and if possible I wanted a value which reflected my expenditure in a total loss situation.
Classic Line and the Porsche Club GB have put a value at £35,000 which I'm happy to accept.

If you also wanted to spend a large amount of money on your 924 2.0 with Singer or anyone else
modifying your car in a very unique way etc..then you would also have the same situation once it was complete where you'd need to get a Valuation to Insure it and the PCGB would give you their opinion also.

I don't know how far or how much you would have to go to get the same results?

I suspect a 924 fitted with 2 bucket seats and a K/N Filter would not be enough to quantify an increase in it's value, but actually a decrease. Another example of the same car having undergone a (full body strip / Paint / & Engine rebuild down to the shell) with full originality would and does create a higher value that usually represents the amount of money spent on it from the restoration costs.

These 2 examples are clear cut, but the situation with mine is both, Modified with non standard parts and a lot of Restoration, and new parts to just about every component and area of the entire car (Hence the £37,000 documented spend).

I often Jest that the Windscreen is about the only item on the car that has not been changed, modified, painted or lightened etc..

In my case the Insurance and PCGB valuations have illustrated they both see that even a classic car that's been dramatically changed & extensively modified has a high value in their professional opinion.


R

 

[Rotorhead]

In my case the Insurance and PCGB valuations have illustrated they both see that even a classic car that's been dramatically changed & extensively modified has a high value in their professional opinion.

The 'insurance value' is not necessarily the 'market value'. It's not what the car is worth if you tried to sell it - it's the replacement value, like for like, if it was a total loss. So, you would require the insurer to agree to cover the costs you incurred creating your modified example, so that you could go out and replicate it.

The Singer Scenario is slightly different. Singer have an established reputation and their cars have a market value.