ULEZ /certificate of conformity

[colt]

Good morning ,
I need member assistance compiling emissions figures for ther 993,
At this stage i am calling on any and all 993 carrera S owners with a tiptronic transmission ( by definition a 1997 model year car) to share their coc stated emissions figures or i can assist with the paperwork to submit to porsche germany for a free copy of the document so that i may gather evidence for ulez exemption.at this stage it seems they are only available for 1997my on vehicles!
you will find my telephone number and email adress in the 993 register section of the club magazine or phone club office..
regards,Christian............

 

[tallmat]

Good morning ,
I need member assistance compiling emissions figures for ther 993,
At this stage i am calling on any and all 993 carrera S owners with a tiptronic transmission ( by definition a 1997 model year car) to share their coc stated emissions figures or i can assist with the paperwork to submit to porsche germany for a free copy of the document so that i may gather evidence for ulez exemption.at this stage it seems they are only available for 1997my on vehicles!
you will find my telephone number and email adress in the 993 register section of the club magazine or phone club office..
regards,Christian............

Christian - if you're based in the UK, then you can only apply to Porsche UK. If you email them at

Customer.Assistance@porsche.co.uk


say you want to obtain a Certificate of Conformity they will email you an application form. You don't need to send them evidence of other models / owners and their emissions. Your car's NOx is what it is..

Hope this helps.

 

[colt]

Thanks for your advice , but that Is not the question I asked.
i have seen some of the figures and I can’t explain the reason for differences between almost identical models in the same year... this is a gathering of information to check Porsche are issuing the correct data, as you may know, they began issuing incorrect data for 996 models until someone questioned their figures.

regards,Christian.

 

[marc_tt]

Just going through getting a certificate of conformity for my 1997 C4S and Porsche UK replied that "Certificates of Conformity are only available for EU specification vehicles built from 1997" so my 993 should be covered.

There are several non club related 993 owner forums (e.g http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=141575&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) where other owners posted documents from Porsche showing ULEZ compliant NOx levels for their 993s so probably worth posting on multiple forums for model specific NOx emission amounts.

Hope this helps, Marc

 

[colt]

After the recent register Zoom meeting , I am again calling on all owners of 97 model year or later cars to help compile a collection of Coc figures for the varying models.. All types are required and it is just a case of filling out a form or two and applying to Porsche cars great Britain and costs nothing.
Regards, Christian- 993 Register assistant.

 

[cb993]

Hi all, I have a Porsche 993 C4 (1997 model) and have struggled to obtain a certificate of conformity (CoC) from Porsche. Living in Central London with ULEZ, it's sadly getting a lot less use than it was and collecting dirt on my driveway.

I have tried Porsche UK, who said: "I am unable to confirm the exact reason that a COC is unavailable for this vehicle. PAG have confirmed there is no copy to be able to provide to you and it is only a legal requirement to provide COCs for vehicles built within the last 10 years. As an alternative they have provided the only other document we are able to obtain, the Technical Data Sheet. If this does not contain the NOx values, I am afraid we are unable to assist further." I've also tried Porsche Germany, who can only provide certificates to the German registered cars.

Is there a way to get a '97-'98 model 993 C4 exempt from ULEZ?

 

[marc_tt]

Hi Christian (993 Register), please would you update us on progress (or otherwise) in getting usable NOx emission amounts for ULEZ purposes?

This matter now goes beyond London with Birmingham and other cities having similar emission based restrictions.

Last update I received was that:
1.Porsche was issuing CoC's for European Specification 993's made from 1997 onwards,

2. The CoC's received to date showed that 993's with automatic (tiptronic) transmission had NOx emission levels below the ULEZ threshold and therefore ULEZ compliant. Whereas the CoCs for 993's with manual transmission give NOx emission levels ABOVE the ULEZ threshold and therefore NOT ULEZ compliant,

3. The CoC emission amounts are the same by transmission type with no change by model variant;

4. Porsche had been asked to check and respond to the matter of the accuracy of these provided NOx amounts and the discrepancy between transmission and model variants; and

5. Mark Hamilton (993 Register Secretary) and others had met with Porsche in Stuttgart in Autumn 2021 and Porsche had advised them they would undertake testing of Porsche's own 993's and other classic models to provide NOx emission amounts for classic Porsche models to establish ULEZ compliance or otherwise.

Unlike with motorcycles, I have not been able to find an independent testing facility that TFL will accept to measure my manual 993's NOx amounts for ULEZ compliance.

Hope this helps, Marc

 

[cb993]

Thanks Marc. Please keep me posted on further news on point 5.
I really hope to keep my 993 in London without having to pay a penalty every time she leaves the drive.

 

[colt]

Good day all,
Sorry I've been quiet on this subject , I received virtually no response to my forum message about coc example certificates to compile info. I asked Mark to look at the register and identify suitable owners and contact them to ask ,but have heard nothing. Mark also said Porsche were looking into this but so far I haven't heard anything more on the subject.

as mentioned a few posts ago.

tiptronics appear to meet the regs based on the examples ive seen so far, manual cars do not, that's across the board of models I've seen! I would like to see a lot more to compare and compile.
coc are only available for 97 model year cars onwards and they have to be European models it seems. The previous model years document that is very overpriced from porsche (helpful of them) does not show the relevant information ,so is of no use to us for this problem.

To my way of thinking, all of the the USA spec cars with the their turbo type emissions equipment and ecu with additional oxygen sensors, should in theory be under the limit, however as no testing was done to European regulations on USA bound cars ,no info exists as far as I am aware , so any USA/Canada import cannot have a coc issued.

I think a ROW (rest of world) model turbo should be under the limit for the outlined reasons above, but no owner has contacted me with a 97 0r 98 car to submit a coc request to look?

I struggle to reason why a tiptronic car should be more efficient in this test, than a manual car ,when the figures for economy etc. in older style automatic cars are almost always worse than a manual due to torque convertor slip, less gears etc. But i do not know the test methods, so it is hard to be more certain.
Also considering there are only two types of engine and the one that meets the limits in a varioram tiptronic car was introduced in the 96model year ,then a 96 will be as clean as a 97 example but you cannot get a certificate to confirm this form Porsche!

Frustrating I know, but short of contracting MIRA to do some test or some other research establishment or perhaps a small volume car maker in the UK , they nearly all buy their engines in ,so don't have to type approved the engine emission's one would guess??

Regards, Christian

 

[Dougler]

All...I'm sure you have all seen this already but attaching a copy of the CoC request form. Porsche UK have advised me that they can submit this to Porsche for ALL cars that were manufactured from/after 1997.

 

[Dougler]

I know this post is about 993's, but just posting here for info. I've received the CoC from Porsche for my 1998 Boxster 986, and it shows the NoX = 0.065g/Km. Given Euro 4 is 0.08g/Km and the London ULEZ requires cars to meet Euro 4 - I have just submitted my car for exemption from the scheme. Fingers crossed.

I have tried multiple times to upload a picture of the actual CoC but for some reason I cannot get it to work....but will try again later.

 

[crypticc]

Hi there,
Assuming the reason for 1997 model year related to the longer gearing in the G50/64.20 gearbox compared to G50/64.21

Does that mean the certificate should be obtainable for my P reg C4 (but 97 model year with the later G64.20 gearbox?)


Thanks,
Chris

 

[MoC2S]

Gearing more a question of NVH than emissions methinks .. but I don't know the specifics of the test.

 

[crypticc]

I've submitted the form including the original Certificate of Authenticity from when car was new that states car is 1997 model year, and has the newer gearbox.

Fingers crossed and I'll update here, but if I don't get the same treatment I might need some tips if I need to appeal.

TTFN,

Chris

 

[crypticc]

Definitely emissions.
Gearing was initially for the more strict US emissions regs, all varioram 993 I read were supplied with those ratios in USA. But then they needed to use in Europe too with the impending stricter regulations coming online there too.

Chris

Gearing more a question of NVH than emissions methinks .. but I don't know the specifics of the test.

 

[crypticc]

Hi

To advise that I got certificate for my 1996 993 (1997 model year C4 with G64/20 'box)

It has the separate HC + NOx figures.

However, bad news - the NOx is apparently 0.178 g/km and HC is 0.112 g/km. How can that be right? I'm seeing here and on other threads tiptronic cars getting less than that.

The Tiptronic is shorter-geared in top than even the G50 and G63 /20 gearboxes. (my working below/attached).


Thanks
Chris

Manual SpecsC2C2C4 [FONT=liberation serif"]Tiprontic Specs:[FONT=liberation serif"]Trans type: G50/20, G50/21G50/20G50/21G64/20 [FONT=liberation serif"]A50.04[FONT=liberation serif"]A50.05[FONT=liberation serif"]1st gear 3.823.82 3.82 [FONT=liberation serif"]1st gear 2.4792.4792.479[FONT=liberation serif"]2nd gear 2.05 (2.15 G50/21)2.052.152.05 [FONT=liberation serif"]2nd gear 1.4791.4791.479[FONT=liberation serif"]3rd gear 1.41 (1.56 G50/21)1.411.561.41 [FONT=liberation serif"]3rd gear 1.00023244th gear 1.12 (1.24 G50/21)1.121.241.12 [FONT=liberation serif"]4th gear 0.7280.7280.728[FONT=liberation serif"]5th gear 0.93 (1.02 G50/21)0.931.020.93 [FONT=liberation serif"]6th gear 0.78 (0.82 G50/21)0.780.820.78 [FONT=liberation serif"] [FONT=liberation serif"]Final drive 3.44, 7.5”3.443.443.44 [FONT=liberation serif"]final drive ratio A50/04 - 9:33 = 3.667. A50/05 - 9:32 = 3.5563.6673.556 top gear * final drive2.68322.82082.6832 2.6695762.588768

 

[crypticc]

Hi Christian

referring to your message
"Also considering there are only two types of engine and the one that meets the limits in a varioram tiptronic car was introduced in the 96model year ,then a 96 will be as clean as a 97 example but you cannot get a certificate to confirm this form Porsche!"

Note that I got certificate for my '96 reg but '97 model year C4 car, manual.
It is the full certificate with separate NOx and HC figures and seems to be matching the other '97 cars with 0.178 g/km NOx

Let me know if you want a copy.

Regards
Chris

Hi Christian (993 Register), please would you update us on progress (or otherwise) in getting usable NOx emission amounts for ULEZ purposes?

This matter now goes beyond London with Birmingham and other cities having similar emission based restrictions.

Last update I received was that:
1.Porsche was issuing CoC's for European Specification 993's made from 1997 onwards,

2. The CoC's received to date showed that 993's with automatic (tiptronic) transmission had NOx emission levels below the ULEZ threshold and therefore ULEZ compliant. Whereas the CoCs for 993's with manual transmission give NOx emission levels ABOVE the ULEZ threshold and therefore NOT ULEZ compliant,

3. The CoC emission amounts are the same by transmission type with no change by model variant;

4. Porsche had been asked to check and respond to the matter of the accuracy of these provided NOx amounts and the discrepancy between transmission and model variants; and

5. Mark Hamilton (993 Register Secretary) and others had met with Porsche in Stuttgart in Autumn 2021 and Porsche had advised them they would undertake testing of Porsche's own 993's and other classic models to provide NOx emission amounts for classic Porsche models to establish ULEZ compliance or otherwise.

Unlike with motorcycles, I have not been able to find an independent testing facility that TFL will accept to measure my manual 993's NOx amounts for ULEZ compliance.

Hope this helps, Marc

Good day all,
Sorry I've been quiet on this subject , I received virtually no response to my forum message about coc example certificates to compile info. I asked Mark to look at the register and identify suitable owners and contact them to ask ,but have heard nothing. Mark also said Porsche were looking into this but so far I haven't heard anything more on the subject.

as mentioned a few posts ago.

tiptronics appear to meet the regs based on the examples ive seen so far, manual cars do not, that's across the board of models I've seen! I would like to see a lot more to compare and compile.
coc are only available for 97 model year cars onwards and they have to be European models it seems. The previous model years document that is very overpriced from porsche (helpful of them) does not show the relevant information ,so is of no use to us for this problem.

To my way of thinking, all of the the USA spec cars with the their turbo type emissions equipment and ecu with additional oxygen sensors, should in theory be under the limit, however as no testing was done to European regulations on USA bound cars ,no info exists as far as I am aware , so any USA/Canada import cannot have a coc issued.

I think a ROW (rest of world) model turbo should be under the limit for the outlined reasons above, but no owner has contacted me with a 97 0r 98 car to submit a coc request to look?

I struggle to reason why a tiptronic car should be more efficient in this test, than a manual car ,when the figures for economy etc. in older style automatic cars are almost always worse than a manual due to torque convertor slip, less gears etc. But i do not know the test methods, so it is hard to be more certain.
Also considering there are only two types of engine and the one that meets the limits in a varioram tiptronic car was introduced in the 96model year ,then a 96 will be as clean as a 97 example but you cannot get a certificate to confirm this form Porsche!

Frustrating I know, but short of contracting MIRA to do some test or some other research establishment or perhaps a small volume car maker in the UK , they nearly all buy their engines in ,so don't have to type approved the engine emission's one would guess??

Regards, Christian

 

[alanmearns@hotmail.com]

Hi Chris
I wonder if you managed to get a reply from Porsche UK on the matter of the possible transcription error for the NOx / Combined NOx + HC figures?
I have a late '96 C4 (M64 / 21 engine and G64/20 'box) and I'm hoping I might be able to get a CoC organised.

Thanks
Alan

 

[TomNauntonMorgan]

According to tfl my April 1996 C4S manual N834 FVW is not ulez compliant. Is there anyway that it can be made compliant as it just sits in my garage and after August2023 its even worse?

 

[385 FMM]

Sorry for coming to this thread late, but to avoid me time wasting and applying for COC
I have a 993 C4S, manual (G6420), 31/3/98 registered, is this ULEZ compliant, and if so what is the quickest way to get certified.

Thanks

Frank