Tyres again Availability

[dlknight]

Hi

Are you guys not fitting the original equipment Pirelli Cinturato P7 N that Porsche asked Pirelli to make again?

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/porsche/944.html

These are tested and N homolgated by Porsche. They are the bestroad tyres for your cars as they suit your chassis.

At £400 a tyre []

I won't touch Pirelli tyres ever again after the debacle I had on my 996 - look in the 996 forum for details - luckily my local tyre dealer had more of a conscience than Pirelli, and credited me a new set of tyres to replace the appalling Pirellis.

 

[Dougal Cawley]

hmm! i might point out you seem to have had an extraordinary esperience. Pirelli arent known as one of the worlds best tyre manufacturers for nothing. there aren't better tyres for your cars.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione.html

they aren't the F1 tyres for nothing.

 

[dlknight]

hmm! i might point out you seem to have had an extraordinary esperience. Pirelli arent known as one of the worlds best tyre manufacturers for nothing. there aren't better tyres for your cars.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione.html

they aren't the F1 tyres for nothing.

I'm sure they use different manufacturing capabilities for F1 tyres vs normal road tyres, no comparison.

My experience of Pirelli - Premature cracking and failure - Pirelli P-Zero Rosso N4 Tyres | Porsche Forum from Porsche Club GB

Quick Google turns up plenty of results of premature cracking and delamination of Pirelli tyres, more so than the other leading brands.

The local tyre dealer did the right thing and gave me a free pair of tyres of my choice, unlike Pirelli who completely lack any sort of customer service skills.

 

[scam75]

I use the Pirelli F1 tyres on my car. If I'm going to Sainsbury's, I'm ok if I stop at Greggs and remove the red stripe ones, put them in the bin and bolt on a set of yellows. On the way back if I bin the yellow stripes, I can make it home on the white stripe tyres, but only if I coast into corners and don't overheat them.

I used 4 sets of red stripes the previous day when practicing for my trip. All in all about £20k and I was able to pick up some milk and bread. I'll probably go to Aldi next time to save some money.

Meant to add, if it starts raining when I'm out, I have to stop as there is no room for the green stripe tyres when I'm carrying the yellow and white ones.

Stuart

 

[dlknight]

I use the Pirelli F1 tyres on my car. If I'm going to Sainsbury's, I'm ok if I stop at Greggs and remove the red stripe ones, put them in the bin and bolt on a set of yellows. On the way back if I bin the yellow stripes, I can make it home on the white stripe tyres, but only if I coast into corners and don't overheat them.

I used 4 sets of red stripes the previous day when practicing for my trip. All in all about £20k and I was able to pick up some milk and bread. I'll probably go to Aldi next time to save some money.

Meant to add, if it starts raining when I'm out, I have to stop as there is no room for the green stripe tyres when I'm carrying the yellow and white ones.

Stuart

 

[Dougal Cawley]

Hmm! well that doesnt tie in with peoples experience of the Pirelli Collezione range of tyres.

https://www.cinturato.net/images/test-classic-tyres-0716.pdf

this is an independent tyre reveiw done by a German magazine. the scores the Pirelli get are amazing.

 

[MarkK]

I'm suprised the Toyo TR1s are so unpopular!!,i have them on my red Turbo ,seem ok to me for road use?Also ran the TR888s a while back when i took it on track which are much harder in the sidewall but a bit noisy for the road,they were ok too!?
Pirellis are the only tyre i have had to replace due to faults occuring after fitment (bulges in sidewalls).

 

[944Turbo]

I have T1Rs on the rear of the cab too, they haven't done many miles, used to run Dunlop sp9000's on the road on the coupe (32psi all round could get a little loose at higher pressures on the rear), they were my favourite by far back around 2014 had been through bridgestone S02s N2 & N3 / Pirelli P zero / goodyear eagles. as a combo of price & performance the dunlops were excellent. T1Rs looked similar hence trying those but it wasn't a direct comparison. My cars were all running 17" and not sure if any are available in 16" sizes (hence not commenting earlier!). Only tyre I had a split in was a bridgestone - though that was in the tread section - Bridgestone insisted it was debris but I think it bubbled / de-laminated first. I did hole the sidewall of a dunlop but that was in a massive pothole in Wales - the pothole was very sharp so do not blame the tyre for that one.
Tony

 

[blade7]

I'm suprised the Toyo TR1s are so unpopular!!,i have them on my red Turbo ,seem ok to me for road use?Also ran the TR888s a while back when i took it on track which are much harder in the sidewall but a bit noisy for the road,they were ok too!?
Pirellis are the only tyre i have had to replace due to faults occuring after fitment (bulges in sidewalls).

Had issues with the Toyo's on my daughters Fiesta Zetec S when I bought it, so much so that I wouldn't consider them for a heavier car or hard cornering. The front Falkens on my Mrs Fiesta ST split on the inner sidewalls, only found out about that when I took it for an MOT. After a fight Falken replaced them. When I bought my Turbo it came on fairly new rear Pirelli 265/35-18 tyres, at around 6 years old they were letting go suddenly during hard cornering. I've had 3 new superbikes that came on Bridgestones, I'm tight as f*** but I replaced them all before they were 1k miles old, because I had no confidence in them. The upshot of all this is, I only fit Michelin or Continental to my performance cars, and Pirelli to my fast bikes.

 

[944Turbo]

Did also have N-0 Michelin pilots on the coupe - it came to me with them on - wasn't a big fan, the circuit pack GR Yaris comes with pilot sport 4s though and they are awesome - very very grippy in the dry* and still surprisingly capable in standing water, dustings of snow etc. and relative hard wearing.

*Actually I think they are too grippy for a small light 4wd hatch for the warmer half of the year - but that might just be me

 

[blade7]

The last 2 sets of Michelin PS2's I've had on the 944 have had the N rating. Not because Porsche approved them, but a tyre supplier told me different car manufacturers can specify different compounds on them. So I wanted to make sure all 4 were the same. The N rating wasn't much more than tyres without it.

 

[Paul 290T]

I had Pirelli P7 Blue on my daily Mercedes a couple of years ago. 3 out of 4 developed sidewall bulges after they they were remounted following puncture repairs. The supplier provided a free of charge replacement for the first bulged tyre, stating they had a reputation for side wall weakness. When two more developed bulges his generosity must have been used up.

I've been driving for a few decades on various tyres brands and had multiple punctures without any such failures. I vowed never to buy another Pirelli.

 

[scam75]

So it's tyre time for me again. As always, I aim to get good value for money vs performance. So I won't be going for £400 a corner option.....

Rears - 245 45 16. Had Toyo TR-1's on for about 6 years. They have worn evenly and have now reached minimum legal tread depth. I would buy again, and they are currently about £130 a pop with Camskill. Good grip but a bit sketchy in the wet. So, had a deep dive into the world of availability and reviews last night. I have opted for a pair of Nankang Sportnex AS-2+. A rated for wet, really good reviews for wet braking, handling and aquaplaning. These things are important in Scotland for a daily driver. Reasonable dry performance and seemingly quite low road noise. Currently available best price of £95 each with Black Circles.

Fronts - 225 50 16. Have ran Westlake Sport SA-57's for about 4 years (there is a reason they ended up on my rims but i won't bore you with that just now lol!). Done a job, but with the dot number saying they were made about 8 years ago, they need replaced. Tread is still very good, grip was ok, but has fallen off a cliff a bit. Again, not going down the premium route, my research tells me that the Tomket Sport range come out top of pops for the budget offerings, again really strong wet performance (only Conti's were better for 4 times the price) and more than reasonable in the dry. These are B wet rated. Camskill doing these for £45 (yes £45!) each just now, so i have ordered a pair for the front axle. I will also be taking this opportunity to get my lovely new (to me), straight, refurbished front CS rim in to play and bench the one with the dent on the rim that causes a little wobble around the 70 mph mark. I've lived with this for 14 years, so this will be a monumental moment!! I will also have them "Road Force" balanced when fitted. I've discussed this before but well worth it as it is a very accurate balance that simulates the tyre being on the road on the machine. This almost eradicated the little wobble I discussed last time I had it done, way better than any other balance option in my opinion.

So you pays your money you takes your chances. Including delivery I'm £320 all in for all 4 corners and quite happy with what I've read in regards to performance, price and my needs. I very rarely ask my tyres for full beans performance and the car isn't tracked. I could have bought three quarters of a Pirelli tyre for that outlay.

Anyway, shoot me down in flames if I deserve it, but this should be good advice for any budget conscious 245 45 16/ 225 50 16 user with similar needs to my own!

Cheers

Stuart

 

[AndrewCS]

Budget tyres have certainly improved, family have recently run them in both 16" and 21" for Summer, reverting to premium for the Winter

Recent Goodyear All Season`s are proving superb in our covering of snow, Halfords beating everyone on price albeit their range of choice is not always as comprehensive

The S4 is on nine year old Vredestein Winters with no issues

PS ... thanks for the brands` feedback

 

[blade7]

I wouldn't run cheap Toyos on any performance car, if I got them for free. But my turbo is a dry road toy, that gets pushed any time I take it out. Pretty much goes for mystery brand tyres too. Low price/mileage/grip, get two if you're lucky, because you ain't getting all three.

 

[blade7]

The S4 is on nine year old Vredestein Winters with no issues

PS ... thanks for the brands` feedback

In the wet or on snow I regularly drove around much faster 2wd cars, in my old A4 2.0T quattro Avant, on Continental tyres. Until they were 6 or 7 years old, then the wet grip started going away.

 

[dlknight]

Interesting choices Stuart.

No comment on budget vs premium but there is also a general consensus that where possible the same tyre (pattern and compound) be used front and rear. I'm not a tyre, suspension or car design expert by any measure but could this be to do with over / understeer and grip effects of different compounds and patterns?

I also did the same as you and hunted for a matching combination of tyres in the standard sizes, but couldn't find anything apart from pretty expensive Yokohamas and the Toyos (but they are rare in our sizes).

Continental make a standard premium tyre (forgotten the name) in one of the sizes which is a reasonable price (as do Michelin with the PS4). But they only do one of the sizes and not both unfortunately.

I will probably switch to a set of 17" (or even 18") wheels when my car is once again running.

 

[Eldavo]

I moved to 17” and (latterly 18”) wheels years ago purely for the tyre availability.

Can’t say I’d be fitting Bing Bong Ling Long Tyres on any car, let alone a peaky 80’s Twbo daily driver in Scotland but whatever works for you - I had terrible Nankangs on my 2.7 and it was tons of fun in the damp/wet, epic drifts like it had 1000bhp on tap, that would get quite wearing on a daily basis though!

 

[scam75]

Yeah the 245 45 16 size hamstrings you for finding 4 matching corners. I had Toyo's on all 4 corners for a good few years, but found the fronts wore out quickly. Tried Uniroyal Rainsports on the front as well, wore even quicker. I had Toyo's all round when I went for the first Road Force balance, and one of the fronts was closer to a triangle than a circle when it came off for balancing (Road Force tells you the exact orientation for tyre on rim for balance). The guy had a pair of those Westlakes on the shelf in the right size, so we chucked them on and got it all balanced up. They were decent enough to last me 4 years.

I think you can get versions of Nankang "comfort" tyres to fit all round, but not the sport versions. I never seen any Toyo 225 50 16's anywhere, but strangely can be had in the odd size!

Anyway, I'll potter about on these for a few years and give my verdict.

I'm always happy enough with matching axles if I can't get same all round.

I think for a 4WD having 4 matching corners is a good idea. For 2WD, not so much. Matching pair to drive and a matching pair to steer should be fine.

Stuart

 

[scam75]

I moved to 17” and (latterly 18”) wheels years ago purely for the tyre availability.

Can’t say I’d be fitting Bing Bong Ling Long Tyres on any car, let alone a peaky 80’s Twbo daily driver in Scotland but whatever works for you - I had terrible Nankangs on my 2.7 and it was tons of fun in the damp/wet, epic drifts like it had 1000bhp on tap, that would get quite wearing on a daily basis though!

Ha Ha! I did not see any Bing Bong Ling Long for sale anywhere!

The thing is, premium tyres are clearly better, and priced that way too. But the gap is narrowing. The latest generation of Nankangs are leaps and bounds better than the ones from a few years back you had on your drift machine. The whole point here is value for money, for me anyway. If you can get 8/10 performance for £100 and 10/10 performance is £300 then there is a point where an accountant or mathematician will tell you which is better value.

Anyway, I very much used to be a tyre snob. Now I can't afford to be lol so I try and track down what will do me best for a more modest outlay. And i haven't binned it in 14 years, so I'm not too fussed about strapping on the latest Bing Bang Ling Long models which are getting much more on a par with their Herman Von German counterparts for a fraction of the price.

Stuart