Turbo S Test Drive

[blueSL]

I went on the test drive at Millbrook this morning; there's no doubting Porsche's commitment to promoting this thing, there were 7 cars, no change from £1m. It was a well organised session, the 90 minutes was split into road driving from the meeting point to Millbrook, the Alpine handling section, straight line acceleration and object avoidance under braking, launch control and several laps of the banked circuit at speeds up to 135 mph.

It is of course an extremely accomplished car; fluid handling, amazing acceleration, fabulous braking; that feeling of security and capability which we know and love. Not a hint of body flex, no creaks, rattles or anything and road noise seemed better supressed than on my 997.2 turbo. I think the car looks great in the metal, broad shouldered with the rear track noticeably wider than the front; the standard turbo wheels are good to look at and after all the hassles of the centre lock wheels might be worth considering.

I don't have much experience of the 991 but I'm afraid it left me a bit cold; impressed certainly but uninvolved even as the thing is hurtling you down the high-grip straight. You can almost feel the car shrugging its shoulders after coming to a halt and asking "OK, what next?".

Some things really grated. The car felt quite soggy in normal mode and the instructor I was with didn't want me to try sport mode which in my car livens things up considerably. The auto off is terrible. Comes on every time you start the engine and is much too ready to shut the engine off, even while queuing at a roundabout. Who cares about fuel consumption when this thing will depreciate as fast as it will? Other things, I think the centre console is a mess, especially ahead of the gear lever and at the back there's a bunch of switch blanks which is unforgivable for a car at this price level. That rear switch panel should be available with the just the right number of switch positions for the options selected. Then there are the chrome decorative strips on the door panels, ideally positioned for your boots to scratch them as you get in and out. It's all a bit bling, IMHO.

In the end, the likely £90k cost to change from my car will kill any desire to own one, not to mention the continuing £1000+ per month depreciation. There will be some here for whom that is insignificant, sadly, I am not among you!

 

[garyw]

I have my morning there tomorrow, quite interested in how will feel against this one. Certainly interesting comparison compared to your current stead Mark. The price is one thing I'm struggling to swallow but for an everyday sports car with this sort of performance and quality it may indeed have it all.

 

[blueSL]

Gary, am sure you will enjoy it and I'll look forward to reading your impressions.

 

[pwebb]

Spoke to one of our register members who's had his car for a month now and he's lovin' it as the saying goes. Major step up from his 997 4S in all ways, but I guess that is inevitable. One comment interests me though, 'soggy' seemed the opposite of what impression I was given. If, by that you mean the pdk and suspension combination, I can only comment on my lowly C2S which is a lot sharper than my previous 997. You can disable the auto off, but you get used to it. Must try and blag a test drive.

 

[blueSL]

Yes, soggy was not a good word. By that I meant that in normal mode, the combination of unresponsive throttle, rapid progression through to top gear, freewheeling when coasting and what I presume were the talked about virtual gear ratios made the car rather lack-lustre to drive, all in the name of seeking out best economy. I always drive my car in sport mode, told the instructor so which seemed to surprise him and asked to try it. He switched it on for a few seconds but was unwilling to leave it there for whatever reason. I did see a glimpse of a transformed car including the exhaust note and maybe I would have come away with a completely different view. I've no doubt anyone buying this car will be as pleased as punch and if it is also a move to a turbo for the first time, the performance will be a revelation. Coming from one already, the difference was less stark but obviously there. In the end, the car didn't grab me, especially given the upgrade cost is not far off what a GT3 costs which now seems to a bit of a bargain.

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: blueSL Yes, soggy was not a good word. By that I meant that in normal mode, the combination of unresponsive throttle, rapid progression through to top gear, freewheeling when coasting and what I presume were the talked about virtual gear ratios made the car rather lack-lustre to drive, all in the name of seeking out best economy.

I found the very same, normal mode was flat out boring but showed how daily the car could be.- if that's what you wanted for your £140K My instructor had put it in sports for me, mainly because of the exhaust burble amused me greatly and is one of those 'things' I'd be looking for if I was to be buying this car. The rear wheel steering was the highlight for me!![8D] wow it seemed almost unnatural- if you're going on the test drive just try weaving your way along the hotel drive and it feel turn.... Great morning out and a wonderful experience, I too would have struggled to have been impressed like Mark was coming from the 997Turbo as we do get accustomed to the acceleration and braking the cars offer.

 

[lowndes]

To be honest Mark, I’ve never had all that much joy with test drives and find the process not always entirely conducive to clear appraisal. I pick things up quite slowly and just as I’m getting the hang of something its time to move on and we’re off to next party piece. The exception was the 996T deal in 2002 where the instructor came to your house and you had a full day in your own car including an hour at MIRA. One of the best days I have ever had in a car. Setting aside the GT3 boys who are practically beside themselves on PH, generally the 991 seems to have received a lukewarm reception. I guess this may be partly that the 997’s were already excellent cars and the step on to 991 is less obvious, perhaps more subtle than was the case 996 to 997. However, as I have noted elsewhere I have a great deal of time for the 991 They certainly have irritating foibles, but I think given time you might well warm to what they have to offer. I certainly did and from a pretty low base of seeing one in a showroom and thinking it was a 997. There is no doubt this obsession with saving the planet has resulted in some dreary compromises in the 991. Stop start, excessively high gearing, gear changing up too early in normal mode, weight saving from an electo mechanical handbrake ( I made the last one up ) the list goes on. I don’t put electric steering assist in that category as I find it fine in practice and can’t really tell the difference between it and hydraulic. But while valuable time and resource is undoubtedly expended on these areas, Porsche does at least put effort into the other aspects. PDK- peerless, wider front track- excellent, rear wheel steer- not tried it yet but good to hear Gary’s favourable report; all at frankly astounding mpg. My 2.4 911E did about 15 mpg, and less in town. The cost to change is an issue. Whether relatively it is more than it was from 996T to 997T I’m not sure. Like for like the 991 turbo S at £141k is around 13% more than the 997 equivalent which was about £125k in 2010. Inflation over the period of 3 to 4 years maybe accounts for half of that. George and his QE to bail out banks and over extended consumers hasn’t helped either. The 991 carries some decent new stuff for which there must have been a development cost. So all in all relative to the 997 the price seems in the ball park. In my view the major part of the cost to change is not the price of the new car but the reluctance of the market to support the price of used ones. Even cars such as the GT2 for which there was a very restricted supply (35-40 UK C16 cars) are not immune to this. If the GT2 example of restricting the supply doesn’t support used prices then new car ownership will generally be a painful process and common sense says buy 1-2 years old and get a well looked after car indistinguishable from new. This of course does rely on some mug have bought new in the first place. But here's a question. How come you guys get the test drives while Peter and I as loyal 991 owners have to get the begging bowl out?

 

[blueSL]

Interesting comments, thank you. I was surprised to receive the invitation to the event, not least because I thought I had made it clear to the salesman that a bid for less than £60k for my 4 year old 997.2 turbo PDK with 17k miles costing £118k originally was of no interest. Perhaps their priority is to convince waverers, not those who have already signed. I responded to the "how was it" questionnaire and judging from the dealer response, they've written me off as a prospect, probably thinking "that was a waste of time and money!". The new cars are indeed more expensive and the move to aluminium may be a factor - Range Rovers are the same - though in Porsche's case, I think they are also trying to restore their margin compared to selling elsewhere in Europe. Go to the dealer opposite the factory and the prices are astounding, much higher than in the UK. I may well have formed a different view if I had driven the car in sport mode and I agree with Gary that the rear wheel steering gives the car an agility at low speeds which impresses. Whether the same is true of stability at high speed I cannot say because the road surface at Millbrook isn't great and driving the banked circuit is different from a normal road. I've no doubt the 991 is a better car than mine but in areas which are increasingly difficult to exploit, not just in the UK but anywhere on the public road. It must be difficult for Porsche to improve perceived performance in typical use. Land Rover have the same issue in providing excellent off-road ability which most drivers will never use. However interesting the car was in Millbrook, the drive to the hotel was telling in that it felt pretty much identical to mine. You hit the nail on the head when you say the market doesn't support secondhand cars which is one reason Ferrari are cutting back production or at least restricting allocations to force secondhand prices up. Clearly, I'd be more interested if the cost to upgrade more closely matched my perception of the improvements to the car.

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: lowndes But here's a question. How come you guys get the test drives while Peter and I as loyal 991 owners have to get the begging bowl out?

I asked the same question for 5 years whilst owning my 997Turbo, I think the fact I don't own it any longer may have brought about my invite - that and pulling out of the deposit. Annoyingly a place went to waste this morning as a invitee didn't turn up, nor did it sound as if they had any intention of- just a shame they failed to tell Porsche. After all Millbrook is a long way from London. [&:] I'm going to do a small write up but something else of note was how awful the actual steering wheel was, way too thick to hold at the correct position and whilst my demo had the puddles and not paddles, it blocked where I'd place my thumb. I got back into my car and noted that the wheel is hollowed out in the same position making the wheel thinner and much more ergonomic to hold, Subtle but a point worth noting []

 

[blueSL]

I'll look forward to seeing your write-up but certainly agree about the unintuitive puddle wheel. It's one of life's great mysteries why they persist with it.

 

[rholyoake]

Thanks gents for the informative reviews of the new turbo s against the "old" one. I've been struggling to find any real comparisons against these models to come to any conclusion on what to do. Currently thinking about the next move from my late 2010 model with 45k on the clock []. Have just bought a new Cayenne Diesel and consequently the 997 hasn't been out for 2 months as its a more enjoyable everyday drive IMHO. I think I'm over the speed fix now and maybe the Macan Turbo is the one to go for. As you also mentioned, something around £70k for mine when I paid £141k for it just 36 months ago is nigh on £2k/month depreciation. Madness. But a great buy for someone if I sold it. As I paid cash for it it wasn't the greatest investment and I can't see me parting with another £80k to have a pretty similar feeling car? I personally haven't received any OPC invite to test the new 991 and won't be chasing them either. Nothing else like the 12C, 458 or some sort of AMG appeals. Ive done a number of Silverstone days and driven all the models including 991s and always felt "better" driving home in the S. I guess the conclusion is that the 997.2 Turbo S is a bloody fantastic car and for the sake of losing a stack in a p/ex, I'll be keeping it for for some time yet.

 

[BigCat]

I went to the Piston Heads event today (Saturday) at Teddington Studios, 100x 911s attended of all variants, great display. Porsche GB had a selection of cars including a really nice looking Blue 991 Turbo S, I sat in that car and apart from a slightly different instrument dial finish it was exactly the same as my 991, granted on the outside it looks a bit different with the air intakes etc. and lots of standard options that cost extra on any other model and of course the engine, it's performance and handling. However just sitting there I asked myself what's the point? It would cost almost double what I paid for my 991 (bought new in January) from the inside it is no different, yes it goes faster but within 3 years (assuming I had the funds to buy one) the extra £60K over and above what I paid would have gone in depreciation. It is of course all relative I guess for some people spending £140K is easy and no hardship but I really cannot see the point.

 

[blueSL]

My car is going in for its 4 year service on Monday - £1600, though I will trim that by deleting some "recommended" items and taking my own oil - and I've asked the dealer to take a look at it and come up with a p/ex value against a turbo S and, if it is different, a GT3. That number, plus the experience of driving my own car for the first time since the turbo S, will I expect confirm my decision to stay put.

 

[garyw]

Mark I went in my own car so that I could do that comparison of getting out of one and into the other I find that's always a good test. Had I kept my 997 turbo even though it wasn't an S I'd still struggle to make myself take the step up. However if your new to Porsche or the Turbo it does take your breath away. Concerning the dash I do agree and felt the same that the interior should be so similar to the base model.

 

[lamboman]

these replies explain why there are new unsold 991 Turbo Ss at every OPC .. stark contrast to 991 GT3

 

[blueSL]

It seems they are producing turbo S's before the base turbo. I visited the factory in September and every one was an S, though one of the cars on Thursday - may have been the "pace" car - was a base turbo. I didn't know there are unsold cars at dealerships. I'm wondering whether normally aspirated cars are seen as fast enough for real world use and the turbo lacks the visual drama of, say, a 12C or F458. If the turbos were selling themselves, they wouldn't bother with the cost and effort of putting on such driving events. The GT3 is a different matter and that's why I asked for trade-ins against the two cars. Maybe there's a deal to be done with a turbo but however sweet the deal is, you'll still take a bath come resale.

 

[Lancerlot]

ORIGINAL: blueSL It seems they are producing turbo S's before the base turbo. I visited the factory in September and every one was an S......

How could you tell if they were still being built on the production line? Be interesting to see a direct, real world comparison between the 997 and 991 versions. The earlier model has only slightly less power and torque, but it also weighs a tad less too, so on the road the 997 could be expected to perform close to its 991 counterpart. The uprated PDK shift pattern and aero features may provide a marginal improvement, but is it enough to be significant in the real world on UK roads? 4 wheel steering is clearly the most innovative feature, but having not driven one, I'm unable to say how this would impact on a decision to change. Of course, on the new model, you now have to also tolerate the wretched stop/start and coasting features - not to mention that electric steering - all in the name of fuel economy [] Also, I hope they've left out the pre-loaded pressure braking system again as this is such a nightmare for left-foot brakers. [&:] It's a pity I couldn't get to Millbrook, since it may have meant a more positive and enthusiastic attitude towards the new model. However, the improvements would need to be truly spectacular to justify the high cost of a change. [8|] Regards, Clive

 

[blueSL]

All 911s are built on a single line - turbos, GT3s, basic 911s - and it's easy to tell the turbos apart. Side by side, the bodies are strikingly different even ignoring the side vents. As we walked down the line, I checked every turbo I could see after the lettering was applied to the engine cover and every one was an S. I think the exhaust tips may be different as well. It might just have been an S-only day but one of the instructors told me on Thursday that base turbos are not coming until March. How true, I do not know. I should have taken my humble non-S turbo on Thursday to do a back-to-back but after taking it out today, I see no reason to upgrade. The differences will be there and more obvious to someone with better driving skills than me but I cannot believe anyone would say they are spectacular.

 

[rholyoake]

Out of interest, does anyone actually know someone who has "taken the bath" and moved from a 997.2 turbo/s to the 991 turbo s? Be interested to get some feedback on why and how they changed.

 

[geoff lane]

Clive You need to borrow a Turbo S from an OPC and do a test report similar to the 991 article. Go for it you know you want to. Geoff