Suspension Upgrade for 944 S2

bennyboy · Jul 18, 2008

Steve, I drive about 1300 miles a week in a CLS320CDI with airmatic suspension, so when it comes to my 944 I quite like it hard and unforgiving - feels like a proper old school sports car. However, it does bump and crash a little and I would hope a refresh would at least reduce this. As it is, i.e. original and 118k old, I have to say it is not too harsh for the road (even my misses doesn't complain) and it is very communacative (spelling?) (would it become softer with age?). I think my 18's make it tramline a little so there is plenty of correction required, but again, I quite enjoy this because it makes it a very involving drive. Ultimately, I haven't had the car on track yet, and my thoughts are that if it isn't too harsh on the road.... On the other hand, neither have I experienced a car with KW fitted, so perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing!

Fen · Jul 19, 2008

Tramlining will be drastiically reduced by replacing the castor mounts. I'd have thought a refresh with M030 will make it more crashy - that's ho M030 is, until you get it on track when it feels too soft.

Diver944 · Jul 19, 2008

No, when I had my M030 rebuilt it came back much improved. Less crashy and more able to dampen poor surfaces yet also feeling a little stiffer when you lean on it. Not in the same legue as KW but at a total cost of £300 to remove, rebuild and refit with an alignment I was more than happy.

bennyboy · Jul 19, 2008

Paul, was that at Promax? The price on their website does not mention geometry. Did you get new springs as well? I may go down this route, with new springs, bump rubbers and top mounts. Will I be able to do all that and have the torsion bars reindexed for less than a grand? That would be a saving of at least another grand against the KW kit.

Diver944 · Jul 19, 2008

No that was at Sportsline Suspension in Brackley, Northants Tel: 01280 702633 who are a Koni main agent. Mine was about four years ago and was £100 per shock plus £100 for removal/refitting/alignment. I didn't replace the springs and I'm not sure why you would want to reindex the TB's without fitting KW's [&:], unless you wanted to prepare in stages before the big expense later on.

stevespic · Jul 19, 2008

Dose any body know how different the original M030 shocks are to the Koni sport adjustable im thinking of buying ?(if both were new)....

Cheers Steve.

RC18B 911 turbo · Jul 19, 2008

Not sure if there is any difference between the 2 but the MO30s are lot more expensive.

stevespic · Jul 20, 2008

Am i right in saying that the MO30 shocks are a Koni adjustable shock ?

Fen · Jul 20, 2008

M030 have adjustable spring perches.

stevespic · Jul 20, 2008

ORIGINAL: Fen

M030 have adjustable spring perches.

What are theses and what do they do if its not a stupid question ? [

] Dose this mean you only adjust the spring and not the shock ?

Cheers Steve.

Fen · Jul 20, 2008

It means the cup that the bottom of the spring sits in can be moved up and down, allowing you to adjust the height of the suspension. If you want to switch to M030 you need the strut (which is threaded on the outside), the nut that runs on those threads, the spring perch which rests on top of the nut, the spring, and possibly the top mount (I believe the spring might be a different size to non M030). Basically it's just not worth the money and hassle as you have moved from cheap refresh to expensive replacement and you might as well get KW.

sawood12 · Jul 20, 2008

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson

ORIGINAL: spic01

Do we no if the ball joints will be affected by this suspension up grade or should that all be ok as the car is not being lowered that much ? ...

Click to expand...

It should only become an issue if you lower it, although if it were me I'd look to uprate them with something like the Rennbay kit whilst it's all in pieces.

I use the Racers Edge top mounts and they seem excellent, so if you want adjustability I'd say they're definately worth investigating.

+1 for the Racers Edge top mounts. They are cheap and very good quality. I wanted the Dynatech ones originally but could not be bothered with the hassle of a company that seems to have no appetite for staying in business or supporting their products,as these rose-jointed top mounts the bearings do wear and will need replacement at some point in the future.

The Dynatech top mounts are a better technical solution as they have two bearing systems - a needle roller bearing system to take the vertical strut loads and a rose-joint bearing to take the lateral cornering loads. The other top mounts (R.E. included) This is better because the rose joint bearings are not really designed to take vertical loadsm but R.E. get round this by using a bearing that is rediculously large and over-engineered for the job. The Dynatech mounts also have a PolyEurothane bush under the needle roler bearings to give you some bushing.

I think Lindsay Racing or Paragon offer similar designed top mounts than Dynatech but i've heard their needle bearings don't last that long on street applications.

I'd recommend R.E. or the offerings from Garage 9 for top mounts, though the adjustability via top mount is a bit useless really because as you adjust camber you also affect your toe-in and toe-out settings which ideally need adjustment to compensate. This is not really feasible without the proper alignment equipment.

Fen · Jul 20, 2008

ORIGINAL: sawood12
the adjustability via top mount is a bit useless really because as you adjust camber you also affect your toe-in and toe-out settings which ideally need adjustment to compensate. This is not really feasible without the proper alignment equipment.

I'd only partially agree with that. I had my car set up on the limit of factory toe at 1 degree negative camber and when I used the top mounts to get 3 1/2 degrees negative on track it didn't put the toe massively out of spec on the other end of tolerance. It also didn't wear the tyres noticeably though I did the thick end of 1,000 miles like that after shearing by ball-ended Allen bit off in one adjuster and having a bit of a 'mare getting it out so I could set them back to road settings. What it did do was completely quell any tendency to understeer unless my entry speed was just ludicrously too high. I'd say it's definitely worthwhile having adjustable ones for track and making use of the adjustment.

bennyboy · Jul 20, 2008

I'm not sure why you would want to reindex the TB's without fitting KW's [&:], unless you wanted to prepare in stages before the big expense later on.

For aesthetics and a lower centre of gravity.

stevespic · Jul 20, 2008

The reason for me asking about the difference between the konis and the original MO30 was to try and get a understanding of how the Konis feel ? Like you say if i was going to spend that sort of money then i would fit the KW...

Scott... are the RE top mounts non adjustable and wheres the best place to buy for the best price ?

Cheers Steve

stevespic · Jul 29, 2008

Sorry to those of you who are fed up reading about this subject but i thought i would bring it back alive with a quick request if i may before i order the konis...Has anybody got any pics of there car on level ground which they could post which has the koni sport adjustables,CS front springs fitted and been lowered on the rear by the eccentric bolts... I just want to confirm that the car will hopefuly sit level on level ground, i realy want to avoid the car being higher on the rear and if photos show this will be the case then i will re-think about ordering something else !

Thanks in advance chaps...[

]

Steve.

sawood12 · Jul 29, 2008

Sorry Steve, i've not answered your earlier question on RE mounts. I got mine direct from RE, see the link below. I found them fine to deal with and very helpful.

http://www.racersedge-inc.com/racersedge/rehome.nsf/0/6FB36C27F1511A5E8525718E0044D28E?open&id=10.3.3

stevespic · Jul 30, 2008

Thanks for the link Scott, They look very good, do you think it would be a worthwhile up-grade being as im only fitting the Koni adjustables...?

sawood12 · Jul 30, 2008

Steve, I personally think they are a great mod. They are designed so that they can be installed with stock struts without affecting ride height - unlike most other mounts out there so should be perfect for your application. I personally don't think they adversly affect ride quality - difficult for me to judge as I installed them at the same time as the KW, but the ride quality is fine but the main difference is how direct the steering feels - it is just so 'pointy' if that makes sense.

At first I thought they introduced tramlining, but after a few tests of driving over bumps and roads with camber loosely holding the wheel thus allowing it to wander if it wanted to I found it still tracks true and what I think I am feeling is extra communication of the road surface through the steering wheel.

As i've said before on other similar threads, there are some noises when manouvering at near stationary speeds in car parks that sounds like creeking and even the occasional 'boinging' noise, but there is no adverse feeling through the steering wheel. I've had the front end checked out so many times and after speaking with others with solid top mounts it seems a recognisable thing with them. But as soon as the speed picks up to a couple of mph or more you don't hear anything.