Road Use!?

[Guest]

I'm currently reviewing my options!...and a 964RS is one of them (also 69-73 T or S and 89 CS) clearly availability notwithstanding.

Are 964 RS REALLY as bad as they say on the road.....is there anything that can be done to make them more "practical"........and what about LHD.....road use every day.

Also if anyone knows where I can find a mint green 964 RS in RHD I'd be really gratefull......I remember going to the NEC motorshow in what must have been the early 90's and falling in love with said Mint Green RS which was high up on a platform but I can't remember whether it was L or R HD. I've seen a RS/CS LHD that was for sale via Autoclassica for a while and one fetaured in GTPP but nothing since then?

Grateful for all expereinces and opinions

 

[Matt]

Jimbers..

I reckon depends on what sort of journeys you'll be doing.
I used to use a 968CS everyday in London traffic, and it was fine until the weather got really hot - stuck in the deep bucket seat with little ventilation used to get uncomfortable to say the least - but the harshness of suspension etc was fine even on our sh1tty roads.
I reckon its much of a likeness to a 964RS in that sort of way
Theres no way on earth I could do the same however in my 964Clubsport - the car hates it and becomes harder to drive, it all gets a bit hot, its bumpier than the 968 the seats are tighter etc.. rolled up to a meeting recently in it wearing a suit & tie, had been mostly motorway to get there, 30mins trip - I looked like I'd been dragged backwards through a hedge []

in summary - if you're not sat in loads of traffic everyday, then go for it as long as you're prepared to sacrifice ride comfort, and all the creature comforts of modern cars..

 

[lee fulford]

Jimbers

I think its a case of what you're use to driving.In other words its all relative.

I personally don't find the suspenders on the RS that bad as long as your not hacking it around everywhere flat out..You certainly have to concentrate on the road surface ahead.

I remember one particular corner near my home that has a bump on the aproach. It sent the front end air bourne momentarily..as the car went straight on towards a brick wall the car hit the tarmac again and normal composure was resumed...All in the flash of an eyelid of course all of which adds to the charm and fun(?)

Don't forget that these cars where not undersealed or protected in any way against the element of a harsh winter..I originally bought mine for daily transport but as Matt says, hot days aren't much fun..or cold days...or wet days...or salty days..Anyone want to buy an RS..one lady owner and all that.

There was a mint green car in the concours last year at the National event..Cant remember if it was L or RHD and the chap din't really want to talk much. Wicked colour ,agreed

Buy one anyway you won't regret it.

lee

 

[Rotorhead]

James

The early 911s can be great (nice article in latest 911 World), however they are now 30+ years old so they are more fragile and even a good one can require on-going care and attention. The best cars are highly sought after and are priced accordingly. Poor cars are best avoided as restoration costs are like the proverbial 'black hole'. A well sorted early 911 can be a delight on the road - delivering lots of enjoyment at sensible speeds.

I've always liked the 964RS, but its road manners are frustrating. In the early '90s I drove one from London to Bath. Town driving was tedious, the M3 was better but just too unrefined, A303 was bit better, but only at naughty speeds. Then I went across Salisbury Plain from Stonehenge to Heytesbury. Dreadful - it kept trying to throw me off the road. It was a good 20% slower than my, then, 964 C2. Still, loved the concept and, yes, its rightful place is on the track.

I believe there are mods to make it more driveable on the road (revalving the struts, etc). Keith Lofthouse has/had a mint green rhd 964RS (ex-Hong Kong) - very nice.

The CS is a good compromise. Very tough - late 80's build quality. Better than 964RS on road (but not as good on track) - Closer in concept to 2.7RST. CS one of my all time favourites.

However, all great 911s - best to have one of each.

 

[Guest]

Am I hearing another cry from the crowd wanting to join true "LEICTHBAU" driving at it's purist. You must first rid yourself of all creature comforts, prepare yourself for pain and anxiety, self flagellation, to serve penance at the alter of Dr P and then enter...converted forever..... for once admitted there is no going back......a life long devotion to the purist force.........[]

If you are thinking of altering the car from it's original then better buy a softer 993RS or GGT3..........It's probably not for you.........otherwise please contact me for a road test...[]

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

Simple reply, both the other cars will be more suited to road driving and in all honesty apart from in the summer when it's nice and dry(but not on hot days) don't even think of using it as an everyday car.
As for the ride, it's nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe. But in terms of traction you'd be quicker on a "average uk" road in almost anything else. but it makes up for it with character by the bucket load.[]

 

[Yoda]

Hi James

I bought a 964 RS and recently and love it. I was looking for a second car for use on road and track and main objective was to put a smile on my face. I looked at a few modified early 911s (Autofarm RSs etc) and found them huge fun. Great charachter, noise etc but I found them difficult to value (as each one was different) and I understand that they require more maintenance. Expensive proposition for daily use.

I love the look of the 3.2 CS and as I had a 3.2 Carrera for 4 years previously I was comfortable with the cars. I looked at a few, there are some good examples about (Mark Waring at WWClassics had a nice 30k mile car for GBP27k which I think has now been withdrawn) but was a little disappointed with the performance. Mechanically the cars are not that far removed from the Carrera and I didn't think the car would be as much fun on track. Great cars though and great fun to drive.

When I drove a few 964RSs I was blown away by the performance. Great engine, huge stopping power, good handling and superb feedback ............ if you find some nice flowing smooth roads. On bad roads (75% of UK) the ride is harsh and the car fidgets too much. I didn't find it that bad compared to the 3.2 CS but worse than normal 911s. I have booked on some track days over the next few months a where I think the car will come into its own. LHD doesn't cause many problems, aside from the obvious car parks, tolls etc I find you have a large blind spot over your right shoulder which is a pain. I drove to the cinema in Fulham in mine last night and asked myself why by the time I got there - not the best thing in traffic, around town over poor roads and in tight parking spaces. Having said that, just looking at it as I walked back put the biggest grin on my face. Would I recommend it as a daily driver - absolutely not, no, nada. I had a Boxster S which was an excellent all rounder but I would go for a RHD 964 or 993 Carrera 2 myself.

As for mint green, I saw a 993 Turbo in this colour with matching interior and it looked a little vulgar. On the other hand, I saw a mint green 964 RS for sale in Switzerland and it looked fantastic - I was surprised at how much I liked it. The car is still for sale but at CHF80k isn't cheap (GBP35k) but only has 28k miles and is beautiful. Looks like it had a minor front end bump but repairs were done well.

I think choosing and looking for your ideal car is part of the fun so talk to people, look at cars and enjoy the process.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Guest]

thanks everyone for the feedback, any further thoughts keep them coming and I'll try and respond to all comments/questions.

In the meantime....

Yoda, can you tell me where the mint green RS can be seen on the web?

Des, the flagellation appeals.....thought for a minute I was in a different forum.....how often do you drive yours and as the register assistant do you see the pipeline of upcoming potential sellers?

Mike (oliver), my first choice I think is the CS but I'm impatient and would want to drive the CS all the time, sell my current daily drive AND buy a 964RS....the early 911 really seems highly impractical and costly given what I'm aiming for (T/r spec). Do you know whether Mr Lofthouse would/has part with his mint green? or as the CS Reg. Sec. do you know of any less than perfect CS whose owners would sell....I don't feel comfortable buying a near "concours" car as a daily drive?

Lee...thanks for the note on the element protection.....having originally bought yours as a daily drive what's your current situation and are you dressing to the right or to the left. Am I also right in thinking the RHD are power assisted steering and not so with the LHD?

Matt, similarly....I have toyed with a 968CS as a daily drive to replace my current...do you now have a second car?....my journeys are mostly Motorway (c.30k pa) though my longstanding customers are pretty used to the "hedgehog" look and its always an icebreaker with new prospects/customers!

Once again thanks all....hope you don't object to giving input until I'm on the other side of my quandry

regards
James

 

[Yoda]

I don't have a link to the Mint Green car referred to above, it is a t a specalist Porsche wrokshop and was being held for a customer. There is one on mobile.de though, 72k km and under £27k. May be worth aphone call.

Regards

 

[lee fulford]

Jimbers

I went over to Germany and bought mine on discription..Turned out to be true..Bought the car back that day to the UK and spend some time cleaning and generally getting to know the car.

I didn't know too much about RS's in general but knew a good car from a rat..This car turned out to be far nicer than I first though with 16000 miles etc but with no corrosion protection decided to keep the car for dry days and high days. Trouble is most of my cars tend to become cars for dry days and we dont get many of those. Still I paid about 26k for it 4 yrs ago and reckon its probably worth circa 35k today..so it'll be a good investment either way.

LHD they say is this car in its purist form, designed naturally in LHD therefore the pedals fit just right and not offset. You're right no PAS and again provides much better feed back.

I dare say Des will come back with a more detailed write up on why RS's are best in LHD and white in particular...Dont believe a word.

lee

 

[Guest]

Lee I am pleased that the wisdom that has been bestowed upon you has not been wasted and your are now all knowledgeable..........you speak the truth..........

Jimbers I would add, you will need to have a run out in a RS Lightweight/ClubSport, preferably on a track day, normally a few around....particularly a gp white Cup Car driven by Mr Merkins, he is very approachable....also had you thought of a diluted RHD onlyTouring version? as a compromise...............basically a C2 with RS suspension and blue print engine and no rear seats with C2 dual mass flywheel so a lot easier and weighing 200kg more.........

 

[Yoda]

Jimbers

Here are the details to find the mint Green cars in Switzerland (there are 2 on the site).

Go to http://www.autoscout24.ch/
then select Marke PORSCHE
then select Jahr 1991 - 1993 from the drop downs
then select Preis CHF 50000 - CHF 90000 from the drop downs

then press Suchen to search.

Gives you a selection of cars from which you can pick the ones you want to see. The car I was referring to is the one priced at CHF 79800. The pictures do not do it justice as the car is jacked up in a workshop.

Hope this helps.

 

[Matt]

jimbers

set up in business with a mate a couple of months back and decided that a 968 & 964 in the drive was not viable in the short term. gutted to sell one, but it had to be the 968 even though it was far more practical.
now its either the gf's car, cycling, walking or 964 as last resort..

968 is great fun day to day - and top drawer on the m/way - makes a good cruiser. I'd happily recommend one as an everyday car. much faster point to point than the 964 as well on our roads []

if you're going to have one or the other however....the 964RS is the one to have..[]

edited to add: btw- www.mobile.de is good place to look at RS's - make sure you select english language, and select 'all countries' in the options

 

[Guest]

Des,

I did contemplate the touring but thought them as rare as?!....I'm planning to go and see the GRed RHD at Strasse this week as a softer compromise (PAS etc).

My thinking was that a RHD was a safer resale bet as an intro if I stretch to the money, on the way to a full on M003 as a next move? though I'd appreciate all your thoughts on that approach. (though I have to say the Mint Green Yoda pointed me to got my pulse racing...many thanks) I'm just not sure on the LHD thing?

The input from you guys has galvanised my thinking (ruled out the early 911 for now) so I'm aiming to buy a 964 RS soon as and I have a 997 C2S on order for Jan delivery (recently spec'd it) which I plan to replace with a CS sometime next year which gets me exactly where I'd "dreamed" to be...964 RS AND (thanks Mike) 89CS if I can find a good but not pristine one as a daily driver. Could I really be that lucky......just wish I knew what I know now when I bought my 996 C4 last year (lost 12k in 12 months not including costs)

Also who do you guys recommend to mod 964's......9M seem to have it taped?

Many thanks

 

[Guest]

7 RHD 964RS Touring made for the UK always 1 or 2 about, but you need to get the Lightweight/ClubSport into the adrenalin straight off 'cause that's where you end up and probably a Left Hooker, so cut to the chase and jump in that deep end and hang on.

I think everyone has touched on all the points above so over to you Jimbers a big welcome awaits.

Tuning a 964, depends how far you want to go, presuming not a 964RS as they come out of the box pretty well factory sorted or have been finely evolved from new, yes 9meister has a good reputation in the UK.

 

[Guest]

Des...your time again which way would you go.....

In the right hand....the red pill...RHD Strasse 38k
In the left hand.....the black pill......LHD GT Classics 29k
And direct into the cerebral cortex (risk reward) the mint green swiss car - 34k

decisions decisions?

 

[Guest]

Presuming each car checks out equally for condition etc then LHD everytime, not just because of saving a few quid but that is how the car was always meant to be and you always have the European/International market at resale time if you ever do sell. Colour wise Mint Green is very much a loud RS colour and looks great on a RS, however at nearly 35K this must be a nearly mint car, can be worth it if the right car. Have you driven a RHD and LHD RS?

 

[lee fulford]

As Des points out, you have the European market to resell with LHD not just the UK with RHD.

Prices for LHD have risen 9k in the last 4yrs on my car as an example. As I understand it the Germans are coming...coming back to reposess their RS's that we all imported to the UK over the last few years, this is keeping prices high...See I'm learning Des..

lee

 

[Yoda]

James - unless you are still planning to use the 964 RS as a daily driver (bad idea) I would suggest you stick to LHD. Easy enough to drive/live with, much better driving position and power sterring is only a benefit if you use it in or around town.

I think the mint green car is too expensive as it has had some (good quality) front end repair work. There was also a nice black RS advertised in Porsche Post - spec was interesting, car had 300bhp Steve Holgate engine, 993RS front suspension mods for more road compliance and a few other nice touches. The car at GTClassics looks pretty good too and Paul is a very helpful and straightforward to deal with.

Go and take a look at them and I am sure one of them will appeal.

 

[ClubSport 911]

James - the offer is still open to view the CS in my garage to support your (tough) purchasing decision.

Rgds