lee fulford
New member
There's gotta be some truth in that....I know where your coming from desmond
No Longer Lurking
- Thread starter Stewart H
- Start date
Des,
exactly how many clubsports have you driven? and can you tell me what suspension your car is fitted with?
exactly how many clubsports have you driven? and can you tell me what suspension your car is fitted with?
P.O.A. I wonder why........
p.o.a. ??? eh?
POA may refer to:
POA may refer to:
- Phylogenetic Oligonucleotide Array, an oligonucleotide microarray
- Power of attorney, legal authorization to act on someone else's behalf
- Portable Object Adapter, part of the CORBA specification
- Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, book three of the seven-book Harry Potter series.
- Salgado Filho International Airport, IATA airport code
- Porto Alegre, the city this airport is located
- Pacific Ocean Areas, area of the Pacific theater of operations assigned to Admiral Chester Nimitz during World War II
- The Pride of Arizona, The University of Arizona's marching band
- Pony of the Americas, horse breed
- Pillar of Autumn, a halycon-class cruiser from the Halo series of games, books and movies
- Prison Officers' Association
- Property Owners Association, frequently referred in legal documents to property associations
- Plan Of Action
- Price On Application
- Point of Acceptance
- Russian Liberation Army, the Russian division fighting along side with nazi Germany in WWII.
- Plane of Animals, a zoophile talker.
- Proof of Architecture, a term used in system design to prove the viability of a potential system.
- Prognosticators of America, a private club headquartered in the Midwest of the United States, dedicated to the advancement of non-gambling related prediction of professional American football games, whose top participants are consistently more accurate in their projections than the media's experts.
- Principles of Accounts, a subject that is taken for GCE O levels or certain university courses.
- Party of Alberta, a Canadian federal political party.
Thanks Laurence for trying to clarify the p.o.a I agree it can be confusing for the mass.....it actually was:
P******. of. Australia.
[
]
I won't dispute that a cup car IS very different when on race set up springs and dampers. But the clubsport when on the RS standard suspension simply feels a bit stiffer (by nature of the roll cage) and shed loads noiser. The rest is all a factor of set up and age of the components. This is where both Simon and Matt have very valid points. The difference both in feel and lap time is not great and can be vastly altered by set up, Full stiff full soft tyres slicks road track day etc. It's too easy to make broad brush statements. How about a standard RS with a weld in cage(they were an option!) with slicks and suspension set to full stiff? what would you know of how that feels when you've not had a chance to try it?.I am not saying there is no difference just that between clubsport and standard the difference is not that wide and the gap closes dramatically when the cars both have cages. So not a million miles from what both Matt and Simon are saying really.
Laurence I am just going by my now greater experience more so than Simon and Matt having owned and extensively driven both.......hear what you say to me the two cars are Chalk and Cheese....again and to appear boring there is no roll or sway or give in the Clubbie I can just push it so much harder and really lean on the car.....I think Porsche knew what they were doing with the M003 option..and probably why a vast number sold to race teams to compete out of the box in the N-GT series....errr[]
ps, I would recommend anyone who can weld or bolt in a FULL cage to do it and feel the difference. Going on now about pedantics slicks etc...I am comparing like with like..if anyone wants to defy the law of physics I'm sure Weissach would be interested.
]ps, I would recommend anyone who can weld or bolt in a FULL cage to do it and feel the difference. Going on now about pedantics slicks etc...I am comparing like with like..if anyone wants to defy the law of physics I'm sure Weissach would be interested.
Laurence you forgot to quote Herr Gelatowagen he know's a bit too....[
]
Des, i see no reason to use Melv's quote. For starters it mis-represents what Matt had written. Matt said there was little difference NOT they were the same!!!!!!!
Seems your the one defying physics at present. So Cup suspension stiffens an already perfect chassis? Seems Wiessach was wasting their time completely redesgning an already roll free car[] Sometimes your priceless[]
Seems your the one defying physics at present. So Cup suspension stiffens an already perfect chassis? Seems Wiessach was wasting their time completely redesgning an already roll free car[
] Sometimes your priceless[]
ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs
Des, i see no reason to use Melv's quote. For starters it mis-represents what Matt had written. Matt said there was little difference NOT they were the same!!!!!!!
Seems your the one defying physics at present. So Cup suspension stiffens an already perfect chassis? Seems Wiessach was wasting their time completely redesgning an already roll free car[
What you on Laurence...Mels' quote was in reply to Matts.... what the problem?
seems to be a lot of people arguing in agreement on this one...specifically:
1. cup cars & clubsport different to std Lightweight out of the box, and undoubtably (slightly) faster back to back round a given track in the right hands & all else being equal.
2. Most RS's now running diff setups to as they came out of the factory. It is probably possible to make a well set up std lightweight better round a given track than a badly set up cup/clubsport
The point I was trying to make is that having spent the past 4 years on track driving my Clubsport, as well as some driving & many passenger laps in a mates std lightweight, I believe the following to be true:
1. The main difference to an average (ie not racing) driver will be in the sensory overload of the clubsport vs the lightweight. Due to being strapped in tighter, with lots of noise etc you either do push the car harder/faster/further, or you feel like you do.
Without timing yourself in a completely standard version of both it is impossible to comment on the real differences the specifications make on track in my opinion..any opinion to the difference between them is purely subjective - including my own opinion!!
I should have originally qualified my statement therefore, and said:
In speed/handling there is very little difference on track unless you are an above average driver/racing driver/trackday superhero who wears his pants outside his trousers. For the average driver such as myself the laptimes would be very similar, although they would feel totally different inside the car.
I would always go for the clubsport because i really enjoy the extra rawness vs the std lightweight and have a roll cage fetish..[]
anyone going to castle coombe on the 10th of july?
1. cup cars & clubsport different to std Lightweight out of the box, and undoubtably (slightly) faster back to back round a given track in the right hands & all else being equal.
2. Most RS's now running diff setups to as they came out of the factory. It is probably possible to make a well set up std lightweight better round a given track than a badly set up cup/clubsport
The point I was trying to make is that having spent the past 4 years on track driving my Clubsport, as well as some driving & many passenger laps in a mates std lightweight, I believe the following to be true:
1. The main difference to an average (ie not racing) driver will be in the sensory overload of the clubsport vs the lightweight. Due to being strapped in tighter, with lots of noise etc you either do push the car harder/faster/further, or you feel like you do.
Without timing yourself in a completely standard version of both it is impossible to comment on the real differences the specifications make on track in my opinion..any opinion to the difference between them is purely subjective - including my own opinion!!
I should have originally qualified my statement therefore, and said:
In speed/handling there is very little difference on track unless you are an above average driver/racing driver/trackday superhero who wears his pants outside his trousers. For the average driver such as myself the laptimes would be very similar, although they would feel totally different inside the car.
I would always go for the clubsport because i really enjoy the extra rawness vs the std lightweight and have a roll cage fetish..[
]anyone going to castle coombe on the 10th of july?
Essential
Member
Hi, I am new to the 964rs forum.
I have been on / off looking for a nice 64rs cs for a long time.
Re the guards cs on h&s site. I have agreed to buy the car from Tom and I have a deposit on the car which has just been given a check over at Jaz.
The car is owned by tom and one of his friends or customers. He had quite a few people interested in the car and due to some changes with my plans I have asked if anyone else would like the car please sell it to them..
If the car does not find a new owner by the end of the week then I will go ahead and buy the car as I would never like to say to someone I would buy a car and then not go through with it, unless there was a good reason of course..
Ohh and the car looks just stunning btw.
If you want the car call tom and if not then I may be posting more on here in the future...They dont come along that often and this one is right here in the UK to inspect.
Mike
Is this the same car that GT Classics are advertising, Paul and Tomas work together? Call me 07768 814264 I know of at least two people looking for a CS.
To answer your question Des. It's my understanding that Group N for GT racing requires a certain number of cars of type to homologate the model. The entire production run of Carrera RS was used to produce this number. To quote Bob Gagnon's Carrera confusion
"The 1992 Carrera RS was conceived primarily as the basis for a competition vehicle to be used for FIA Group N (large series production based touring cars) or FIA Group GT (Grand Turismo) racing, as well as a basis car for the factory's popular Carrera Cup racing series".
The M003 was the "competition vehicle" result of this.
Ironic really (given this arguement) that the very reason the M003 was allowed FIA papers is because of it's sameliness with the lightweight[]
"The 1992 Carrera RS was conceived primarily as the basis for a competition vehicle to be used for FIA Group N (large series production based touring cars) or FIA Group GT (Grand Turismo) racing, as well as a basis car for the factory's popular Carrera Cup racing series".
The M003 was the "competition vehicle" result of this.
Ironic really (given this arguement) that the very reason the M003 was allowed FIA papers is because of it's sameliness with the lightweight[
]
So that's why the factory had to build a minimum 150 MOO3 N-GT FiA cars specially for homologation.....with 2000+- lightweights why bother....going to bed now[] Good night everyone and sweet dreams whatever you drive....[]
] Good night everyone and sweet dreams whatever you drive....[]
Yes Des, the clue is in the words "large series production" the car (m003) had to conform to a model in "large series production!" and it's why they did'nt just use the Carrera cup car instead, it would not have conformed to type!
So it's different to a lightweight then.....never said it was a Cup Car read what I write L please...[
]
ORIGINAL: jason
Des I know whichever car you currently own is the best car in the world ever and worth 10x all the others[
Think you need to read ALL the various quotes, and really read Matts comments in full as to when a proper driver gets hold of it as demonstrated to me...
Read Phil Schyns comments a man who knows.....
Now then 10X better never said it was better BUT DIFFERENT ON TRACK read what I write.....[
]I really do despair[
]
Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members
Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions
