No Longer Lurking

[Stewart H]

Having been lurking for a while and thinking of buying an RS since I fell in love with one at a Brands trackday last year, I am finally in a position to start looking seriously.

My 996 goes next weekend and I have a budget of £50-55k to get one. Ideally, I would like a Clubsport as my total mileage will be about 3,000 per year including 4 or 5 trackdays, plus maybe the better part of another 1,000 for a Le Mans trip.

Do you think the Clubsport is the best bet (I don't have any intention of getting rid of it for some time - if ever) And does anyone have a heads up on any coming up for sale? Also, does anyone know the score on the H&S one in Guards Red? GT Classics say it is sold but H&S updated their website in the last couple of days and still have it listed for sale.

Thanks for any help.

 

[jason]

H&S often leave cars on their site that have sold to make it look like they have stock...bit annoying.

I think the Cup car is sold also...as I enquired about it.

Good luck in the hunt - unbelievable cars - maybe see if you can try both before you choose? Buy on condition though and not with your heart...but if you want a totally original original panel car you might be in for a long wait...

 

[kasbridge]

Best thing you can do is call Thomas and convince him that you are serious, keep speaking to him regularly and find out what is coming in. Be prepared to either buy over the phone or jump on a plane at short notice. Also talk to Paul McLean, he is helpful and honest and knows what is coming in at H&S (and also sources his own cars of course)

My car was shown on the website as available from end April, I was first over to view and bought it on the 25th and there was a queue of people behind me waiting, also don't expect much in the way of negotiation - on the flipside the car is as described and was the best I had seen in 6 months of searching.

There was a Maritime RSL in SW London that was up for £45k recently, I don't think it sold, nice car aside from non-std wheels and a couple of bits of paint work needed, full OPC history etc. someone on the forum may have contact details if you were interested. Would suggest you look at and drive both variants there is a huge difference between cars of similar mileage in terms of how they drive.

Great cars, you will love it when you find one! Best of luck

Here's a pic of mine, still haven't got round to posting some proper pix on the forum, too busy driving!

 

[ChrisW]

It was on Pistonheads yesterday --- but may have tripped over the 60 days on my browser (or the PH website ?)

If you go the the Porsche 964 section in classifieds --- press filter and put "rs" in the titles, it will show you all.

 

[Matt]

stewart
having driven lightweight & clubsport on track & road, my thoughts:

clubsport will give you a different experience on track to std lightweight - mainly due to the noise in my opinion. it feels more raw & direct - however in all out speed/handling in this environment theres very little difference - will come down to driver ability first & foremost, then tyres, then the small differences in set up, bhp etc
clubsport is very noisy however on the road - more so now with toyo track tyres..but std road tyres fine for the trip to le mans

finding a car: agree with what others have said. i let thomas at H&S know i was serious about a clubsport - and bought it unseen before he even got it in to stock and put it on the website. gave him £1000 deposit, got him to take it through a OPC checkover, and flew out to pick it up a few days later. he arranged all the insurance & export plates for me so was nice & easy. this was 4 years back so less demand for rs's then - but still needed to do this in order to get the maritime clubsport i wanted.

last bit is about original paint/panels cars..
if you are going to use the car & track it then don't get hung up on original paint & panels. all you can ever do is devalue the thing by using it and you'll not enjoy it. who cares if somethings been painted - as long as its been done well. if you plan to keep the car for a long time it will allow you to enjoy it more. i also don't believe it will affect value in any way in the future - look at 73rs's - the vast majority have had serious work done to them in body & paint - and they are making big money as long as its been done correctly. give our rs's another few years and no doubt we'll all also be having to take some action to keep them looking good - and keeping rust at bay..

if however you want something to look at in a garage then pop a low mileage original panel one away and in 10-20 years time it will be worth a mint no doubt...but you'll not be using it as intended and definately not be having as much fun with it as the people picking up stone chips & gravel rash on track..

good luck in your search mate - happy to chat through experience in buying car from H&S if you like

 

[Stewart H]

Thanks for the replies guys. It sounds like I need to get on the phone and start pestering people. I hope you don't mind more daft questions as the search progresses and I'll keep you all updated.

 

[Keith Calder]

£30,000 for 340 bhp!

http://www.mobile.de/SIDETztSZDhwnG7Y7XQt5jsNg-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ1182681098A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarX-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1A1B20B25%81Q-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100A3E20100CcupBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=6&id=11111111264951005&

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: Keith Calder

£30,000 for 340 bhp!

http://www.mobile.de/SIDETztSZDhwnG7Y7XQt5jsNg-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ1182681098A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarX-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1A1B20B25%81Q-t-vCaMiMkMoQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100A3E20100CcupBGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=6&id=11111111264951005&

Nice - is it based on an original 964 Cup shell?

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: Stewart H

Also, does anyone know the score on the H&S one in Guards Red? GT Classics say it is sold but H&S updated their website in the last couple of days and still have it listed for sale.

Thanks for any help.

and he had it E5000 cheaper on mobile.de for some reason too...

 

[Keith Calder]

translates as
964 Cup body, aluminum trunk flap, matte cage welded, leathers of bowl seats Recaro, 6 point of belts, 5 course with barrier, 18 tariff Techart and Cup rims, GR IV wing (RSR Whaletail) and original tail cover, large brake, cathedral prop, fire extinguishing system, emergency stop, 3.8 RSR engine with large Schmirler bridge, fan elbow union plant in the cloister absorbed, 2 oil coolerswouldnt care what the shell was with that donkey in the back..

 

[Melv]

Nice post Matt! Thanx for your contribution.

However, can't agree with Lightweight being the same as Clubsport on the speed/handling front. In my opinion the Cup and Clubsport are far my focused and make the Lightweight feel positively floppy in comparison!!

 

[Damen]

Stewart

If you are prepared to travel, then there is a very nice red CS for sale in Holland, its with Wolbert (I can not remember the site address as I type this but you ought to be able to find them with a quick Goggle search). I don't know the price, it won't be cheap, but there stock is usually good.

Best of luck.

Damen

 

[Stewart H]

Thanks Damon, I'll check it out.

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: Melv

Nice post Matt! Thanx for your contribution.

However, can't agree with Lightweight being the same as Clubsport on the speed/handling front. In my opinion the Cup and Clubsport are far my focused and make the Lightweight feel positively floppy in comparison!!

All I can say as ex-owner for several years of a really quick and sorted Lightweight the Clubsport is such a different car on track....no roll, no sway (oh you will say mine doesn't...sorry they do), just planted, my driving has come on leaps with the Clubsport N-GT with so much more to explore, FFS it's an out of the box Weissach Race Car...you can so lean on the Clubbie...buy the N-GT... IF you can find one for sensible money....sorry to upset the carpet crowd but there is no substitution for the real thing...cut to the chase...buy one..

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: Damen

Stewart

If you are prepared to travel, then there is a very nice red CS for sale in Holland, its with Wolbert (I can not remember the site address as I type this but you ought to be able to find them with a quick Goggle search). I don't know the price, it won't be cheap, but there stock is usually good.

Best of luck.

Damen

www.wolbert.nl

The only thing that gets me on both his 64CS and 93CS is they both say NIET TE KOOP which I thought meant not for sale???

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

I think some caution needs to be used when comparing the standard RS to the clubsport version or Cup car. First off one needs to know exactly what one is comparing with. To the best of my knowledge the clubsport came with standard RS suspension. Quite a few clubsports have been used as race cars and have subsequently had there suspension upgraded to cup spec. The cup cars used various suspension systems (race and championship dependent) but were generally fitted with vastly stiffer spring and damper set ups. In fact the cup cars system differs quite considerably from the standard RS both in damper type and spring rate. Thus be very cautious when comparing unless your absolutely sure what's underneath!

 

[Stewart H]

Des, I may be getting ahead of myself here - but I know you're fairly local to me. Where do you get your servicing/other work done?

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: Stewart H

Des, I may be getting ahead of myself here - but I know you're fairly local to me. Where do you get your servicing/other work done?

GT One

 

[SimonExtreme]

ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs

I think some caution needs to be used when comparing the standard RS to the clubsport version or Cup car. First off one needs to know exactly what one is comparing with. To the best of my knowledge the clubsport came with standard RS suspension. Quite a few clubsports have been used as race cars and have subsequently had there suspension upgraded to cup spec. The cup cars used various suspension systems (race and championship dependent) but were generally fitted with vastly stiffer spring and damper set ups. In fact the cup cars system differs quite considerably from the standard RS both in damper type and spring rate. Thus be very cautious when comparing unless your absolutely sure what's underneath!

+1

There is a lot of BS talked about how different a Clubsport and "basic" standard car feel. Except for the noise, there is barely any difference in feel between a good "basic" and a good "clubsport" which isn't suprising, seeing the specs are almost identical. There is a great deal of difference between a clubsport and a cup car in terms of suspension.

However, the big differences are between a good car of either type and a "tired" one.The difference is night and day and even greater than the difference between a clubsport and a cup car. The problem is that unless you drive a good one, even a fairly average one feels so much better than a C2. However, the suspension gets very tired, LSD's wear badly and the shells feel tired. We all expect a "raw" feel with a bit of the race car about it which is why many average cars still please their owners.

When buying my car, I drove quite a few. It would have been very easy to buy the first car I drove but I now know it was in need of some "updating". Most cars that have done any mileage do need that updating .

So, my advice would be to drive as many cars as possible and buy from a specialist or with the help of a specialist. I wouldn't be too concerned whether it was a clubsport or regular car, so long as it was a good one.

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: SimonExtreme

ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs

I think some caution needs to be used when comparing the standard RS to the clubsport version or Cup car. First off one needs to know exactly what one is comparing with. To the best of my knowledge the clubsport came with standard RS suspension. Quite a few clubsports have been used as race cars and have subsequently had there suspension upgraded to cup spec. The cup cars used various suspension systems (race and championship dependent) but were generally fitted with vastly stiffer spring and damper set ups. In fact the cup cars system differs quite considerably from the standard RS both in damper type and spring rate. Thus be very cautious when comparing unless your absolutely sure what's underneath!

+1

There is a lot of BS talked about how different a Clubsport and "basic" standard car feel. Except for the noise, there is barely any difference in feel between a good "basic" and a good "clubsport" which isn't suprising, seeing the specs are almost identical. There is a great deal of difference between a clubsport and a cup car in terms of suspension.

However, the big differences are between a good car of either type and a "tired" one.The difference is night and day and even greater than the difference between a clubsport and a cup car. The problem is that unless you drive a good one, even a fairly average one feels so much better than a C2. However, the suspension gets very tired, LSD's wear badly and the shells feel tired. We all expect a "raw" feel with a bit of the race car about it which is why many average cars still please their owners.

When buying my car, I drove quite a few. It would have been very easy to buy the first car I drove but I now know it was in need of some "updating". Most cars that have done any mileage do need that updating .

So, my advice would be to drive as many cars as possible and buy from a specialist or with the help of a specialist. I wouldn't be too concerned whether it was a clubsport or regular car, so long as it was a good one.

Simon you will never cease to amaze me, two very very very different cars, as ex-owner of a Lightweight LHD for several years of a very well set-up and on good suspension with new shocks and pumping nearly 300 BHP can feel qualified to compare to my Clubsport...sorry factory designated N-GT FiA...yes FiA...

Not one of you has mentioned the Welded Matter Cage, or is this just another oversight...trying the old suspension route. The car started life ground up with a far more rigid shell, and is very noticeable when pushing hard, making the car:

1. Feel better
2. Handle better
3. Communicate better
4. Sound better
5. Safer

And with no engine bay soundproofing, carpet and glue everywhere, higher slidy leather positioned seats (you sit in tighter Nomex Recaro on the floor as per Cup in the N-GT) and with ceramic sintered lined rigid clutch and those wonderful tight hugging Schroth centre bar mounted race harness just make the whole experience much more focussed....go on Simon tell me I am wrong and Porsche were just getting it wrong with their Homologation N-GT......

Love the Lightweights to bits, been in many well sorted cars for hundreds of laps, but you can't reproduce what God left out....[]