Neil Haughey
New member
Simon Peckham (SPS) is the man when it comes to experience of special turbos on 944s and I am sure he will love to hear about your project Nick.
nickson motorsport 944 turbo track car build
- Thread starter nicksonmsport
- Start date
nicksonmsport
New member
bit of progress today! first of all the new turbo arrived (yay xmas!) lol
so i thought i would quickly hook the k26/6 off and offer the new turbo into the space to get an idea of whats involved in mounting the turbo
tbh at the minute the only real issue seems to be the height of where the original turbo is mounted. the turbo oil return bolts to the engine mount. the oil return flange is identical on the new turbo, so i can bolt the new turbo to the engine mount and retain the original way of returning oil to the sump.
all i will do is chop the flange from the engine mount, and lower it before rewelding and beefing up. this will not only provide a solid mount for the turbo to sit on, and allow the clearance under the inlet manifold. create an oil feed line, and then fabricate a 3inch downpipe, and mod the crossover pipe to accept the t3 flange and reposition the flange for mounting the turbo.
next job is to re position the turbo outlet by removing the massive circlip and turning the compressor housing to put the outlet in the right direction for intercooler pipework, and also turn the centre part of the turbo to allow the mounting flange to face in the right direction to mount up with the modded crossover pipe.
it all sounds complicated but wont be to bad, worst part is the mocking up stage getting the turbo in the right place. once this is done its just fab work.
btw the k26/6 is in very good shape, literally no shaft play whatsoever, no smoke, boosts well etc, for any1 who may be interested in purchasing it.
the turbo oil return o ring was a bit old and brittle so u can see where oil had been leaking onto the engine mount.
also just found a bill from la rose porsche in 98 who carried out a full engine rebuild at 120k miles. so although 14 years ago, only 60k miles ago, so im hoping the engine will be in very good health. it certainly ran very well when i was using the car before stripping
so i thought i would quickly hook the k26/6 off and offer the new turbo into the space to get an idea of whats involved in mounting the turbo
tbh at the minute the only real issue seems to be the height of where the original turbo is mounted. the turbo oil return bolts to the engine mount. the oil return flange is identical on the new turbo, so i can bolt the new turbo to the engine mount and retain the original way of returning oil to the sump.
all i will do is chop the flange from the engine mount, and lower it before rewelding and beefing up. this will not only provide a solid mount for the turbo to sit on, and allow the clearance under the inlet manifold. create an oil feed line, and then fabricate a 3inch downpipe, and mod the crossover pipe to accept the t3 flange and reposition the flange for mounting the turbo.
next job is to re position the turbo outlet by removing the massive circlip and turning the compressor housing to put the outlet in the right direction for intercooler pipework, and also turn the centre part of the turbo to allow the mounting flange to face in the right direction to mount up with the modded crossover pipe.
it all sounds complicated but wont be to bad, worst part is the mocking up stage getting the turbo in the right place. once this is done its just fab work.
btw the k26/6 is in very good shape, literally no shaft play whatsoever, no smoke, boosts well etc, for any1 who may be interested in purchasing it.
the turbo oil return o ring was a bit old and brittle so u can see where oil had been leaking onto the engine mount.
also just found a bill from la rose porsche in 98 who carried out a full engine rebuild at 120k miles. so although 14 years ago, only 60k miles ago, so im hoping the engine will be in very good health. it certainly ran very well when i was using the car before stripping
nicksonmsport
New member
turbo isnt far off being mounted in place! will post pics once complete.
nicksonmsport
New member
update
nicksonmsport
New member
bit of progress to report!
full exhaust system an crossover pipe removed from the car (all available for sale apart from crossover)
we shall be fabricating a full 3inch stainless exhaust for the car in the near future
we also have the turbo sat and bolted in place! perfect postioning allowing for inlet exhaust, downpipe clearance, and oil return bolts directly to the engine mount supporting the turbo. we cut the inlet manifold and angled the flange up slightly for clearance, and cut and modded the engine mount to rotate the turbo slightly otherwise at the standard angle the exhaust was hitting the block, and no space to fabricate a downpipe.
inlet manifold and engine mount will be welded up very soon. and then its time to fab the crossover to t3 turbo flange, and the 3inch downpipe from the back of the turbo, with v band connector.
once this is done we will fab custom intercooler pipework, and we have a huge k+n air filter that will go directly on the front of the turbo inlet which is a 4 inch inlet! afm and restrictive inlet system will be binned so nice direct inlet to the turbo.
full exhaust system an crossover pipe removed from the car (all available for sale apart from crossover)
we shall be fabricating a full 3inch stainless exhaust for the car in the near future
we also have the turbo sat and bolted in place! perfect postioning allowing for inlet exhaust, downpipe clearance, and oil return bolts directly to the engine mount supporting the turbo. we cut the inlet manifold and angled the flange up slightly for clearance, and cut and modded the engine mount to rotate the turbo slightly otherwise at the standard angle the exhaust was hitting the block, and no space to fabricate a downpipe.
inlet manifold and engine mount will be welded up very soon. and then its time to fab the crossover to t3 turbo flange, and the 3inch downpipe from the back of the turbo, with v band connector.
once this is done we will fab custom intercooler pipework, and we have a huge k+n air filter that will go directly on the front of the turbo inlet which is a 4 inch inlet! afm and restrictive inlet system will be binned so nice direct inlet to the turbo.
nicksonmsport
New member
hi yes 4inch inlet. the filter i have has a 6inch inlet so will be fabricating a 6-4inch adaptor. will most likely be doing full 3inch intercooler pipework, along with a larger front mount intercooler with 3inch inlet and outlet. will be getting a custom oil feed made up by one of my customer HEL performance.
cant wait to get this thing running! should be pretty savage with this turbo setup!
cant wait to get this thing running! should be pretty savage with this turbo setup!
Diver944
Active member
In that case you may need to do some work to allow clearance for the alternator when it goes back underneath the turbo.
The turbocharger on my 3.2L had a 4 inch inlet and it actually rested on the alternator. Not really a problem but I'm pretty sure it helped contribute to the excessive intake noise as the turbo spooled up. Sound amplified through vibration etc
That thing looks huge sitting there with all that space around it [8D], are you sure a 2.5 engine will be able to push enough air through it at lower speeds?
The turbocharger on my 3.2L had a 4 inch inlet and it actually rested on the alternator. Not really a problem but I'm pretty sure it helped contribute to the excessive intake noise as the turbo spooled up. Sound amplified through vibration etc
That thing looks huge sitting there with all that space around it [8D], are you sure a 2.5 engine will be able to push enough air through it at lower speeds?
nicksonmsport
New member
i have already offered the alternator in place (was yours running with air con?) as this is non aircon converted which drops the alternator down. seems to be enough space, even with a huge 6inch fliter.
from the results others have had with this turbo on a 2 litre 6 pot engine, and even a 2 litre sr20 nissan 4 pot engine, this turbo will be absolutley fine on a 2.5 engine. in fact compressor racing who sell the turbo advertise it as perfect for 2 litre- 2.5 litre engines. the compressor housing looks large, but the exhaust housing is small in comparison, which means the turbo will spool easily and quickly, but will still produce high power outputs.
rb20 2 litre 6 pot engine was used for testing, which is an engine reknowned for struggling to power bigger turbos without lots of lag. it reached full boost by 3800 rpm, and produced over 450bhp.
the larger exhaust housing turbos will flow over 600bhp, but will be much more laggy, and so this was uneccesary when i am going for 400-450bhp. this turbo is a hybrid which has the bigger compressor housing to flow high volumes of air, but a small exhaust housing to give boost as quickly as possible.
where this becomes a restriction is on larger engine cars, or 16/24 valve high revving engines that need boost to be produced to rev limits of 8500-9000 rom! hence why you then move to the larger exhaust housing version, which will produce boost up to these high redlines, but at the same time, wont give full boost untill 4000-4800rpm! all you are doing is moving the powerband further up the rev range, but the higher rev limit means you still have the same sort of power band range.
if i really cranked up this turbo it would produce around 500-550bhp max, and it would only acheive that with a higher rev limit, at the same time, it will then hit a wall and drop off like smaller turbos do due to the smaller exhaust housing. it would also require high boost levels that would create some serious heat and torque. 1.8-2bar! (over atmospheric)
so really it is a perfectly suited turbo to run 400ish bhp at sensible boost levels, and not mega laggy like the hx35 or similar which wouldnt hit full boost until 4500rpm ish.
remember that a smaller turbo will require higher boost levels to achieve similar power outputs to a larger turbo running less boost. more boost equals more stress/heat in the engine, so actually more likely to cause engine damage when chasing power figures and you start cranking the boost up which in turn creates higher intake temps and then power levels drop again!
in theory this turbo even running at 1 bar would most likely be seeing 360-380bhp. purely due to the fact it flows much more air than a smaller turbo also producing 1 bar of boost.
this is why when you see people converting naturally aspirated engines to turbocharged, they use a turbo thats much larger than you would usually use, due to the fact the high compression limits you to running 6-8psi of boost before issues arise from heat and detonation. they can run a large turbo at low boost levels, and still achieve decent power outputs, without the need for high boost.
have a look on youtube for holset turbos, hx35/hx40 both of which are much bigger turbos than the hy35s i am using here! they are being used on 4 pot 1.8/2 litre honda engines! and many bmw engines 6 pots, 2 litre/2.5/2.8. in fact an hx40 on the right engine will produce about 700bhp! but many people are using them to run 400bhp on 4 pots!
i genuinely think this turbo will be awsome on this 944 turbo engine. and a few other people in the know about these holset turbos have said the same thing.
we shall soon find out!! i like experiments! cant wait!
from the results others have had with this turbo on a 2 litre 6 pot engine, and even a 2 litre sr20 nissan 4 pot engine, this turbo will be absolutley fine on a 2.5 engine. in fact compressor racing who sell the turbo advertise it as perfect for 2 litre- 2.5 litre engines. the compressor housing looks large, but the exhaust housing is small in comparison, which means the turbo will spool easily and quickly, but will still produce high power outputs.
rb20 2 litre 6 pot engine was used for testing, which is an engine reknowned for struggling to power bigger turbos without lots of lag. it reached full boost by 3800 rpm, and produced over 450bhp.
the larger exhaust housing turbos will flow over 600bhp, but will be much more laggy, and so this was uneccesary when i am going for 400-450bhp. this turbo is a hybrid which has the bigger compressor housing to flow high volumes of air, but a small exhaust housing to give boost as quickly as possible.
where this becomes a restriction is on larger engine cars, or 16/24 valve high revving engines that need boost to be produced to rev limits of 8500-9000 rom! hence why you then move to the larger exhaust housing version, which will produce boost up to these high redlines, but at the same time, wont give full boost untill 4000-4800rpm! all you are doing is moving the powerband further up the rev range, but the higher rev limit means you still have the same sort of power band range.
if i really cranked up this turbo it would produce around 500-550bhp max, and it would only acheive that with a higher rev limit, at the same time, it will then hit a wall and drop off like smaller turbos do due to the smaller exhaust housing. it would also require high boost levels that would create some serious heat and torque. 1.8-2bar! (over atmospheric)
so really it is a perfectly suited turbo to run 400ish bhp at sensible boost levels, and not mega laggy like the hx35 or similar which wouldnt hit full boost until 4500rpm ish.
remember that a smaller turbo will require higher boost levels to achieve similar power outputs to a larger turbo running less boost. more boost equals more stress/heat in the engine, so actually more likely to cause engine damage when chasing power figures and you start cranking the boost up which in turn creates higher intake temps and then power levels drop again!
in theory this turbo even running at 1 bar would most likely be seeing 360-380bhp. purely due to the fact it flows much more air than a smaller turbo also producing 1 bar of boost.
this is why when you see people converting naturally aspirated engines to turbocharged, they use a turbo thats much larger than you would usually use, due to the fact the high compression limits you to running 6-8psi of boost before issues arise from heat and detonation. they can run a large turbo at low boost levels, and still achieve decent power outputs, without the need for high boost.
have a look on youtube for holset turbos, hx35/hx40 both of which are much bigger turbos than the hy35s i am using here! they are being used on 4 pot 1.8/2 litre honda engines! and many bmw engines 6 pots, 2 litre/2.5/2.8. in fact an hx40 on the right engine will produce about 700bhp! but many people are using them to run 400bhp on 4 pots!
i genuinely think this turbo will be awsome on this 944 turbo engine. and a few other people in the know about these holset turbos have said the same thing.
we shall soon find out!! i like experiments! cant wait!
nicksonmsport
New member
bad news time!!
with massive regret i have decided to abandon this project!
reason being is that i have become massively busy and am currently fully booked up every day until middle of febuary now! i am literally not going to have a single minute to spare working on this car, and after doing the sums on the sort of hours left to get this car how i want it, there is no chance this car is going to be done ready for use for next years track season, and possibly not even the season after that!
i have run my buisness for 4 years now building cars for other people, and i just want to get on track myself as its what i enjoy doing more than anything! if i continue with this project its just never going to happen! to add 2 of my close friends have just bought track ready cars, and are booked on track in the next couple of weeks. so i will be missing out on doing track days with them as well!
i have finally realised that due to my work load, i just dont have the time to do large personal projects any more, and so the only way i will achieve getting on track next year, is to buy a track car 99% complete, and just do a few tweeks myself and use the bloody thing!
on top of my time issues, i have also been asked to pay back a loan from a family member in full as they have suddenly had a change in circumstance, so the money from the car will soften the blow here!
i am certainly not leaving the porsche ownership experience for long! i will most likely find a nice 944/968 as a daily at some point in the future, or possibly even buy a 968cs or similar well prepared car as my choice of track car!
very sorry to all of you that may have been following the thread with interest! i would have loved to have seen this car finished and set up with 400+hp!
so all parts from this car will be available for sale, all parts will be removed from the shell, and i will be keeping the shell in stock for any potential interested customers after a race shell build for next year. i have obviously already stripped the interior, installed 6 point harness points in the shell, seat rails, extinguishers, and we can have the shell dipped, any repairs carried out, full seam welding and weld in cage to whatever spec is required etc etc. any interested people please get in touch for details and pricing etc.
all other parts will be for sale, please get in touch with what your after, sales will be on a strictly first come first served basis as there are some quite sought after parts and so items will be sold to those who pay for the item first! otherwise it is almost impossible to stay on top of.-
all enquiries to info@nicksonmotorsport.co.uk - as i will find it hard to stay on top of enquiries on here!
i will post a for sale thread for the main parts at some point soon. in the mean time just get in touch via email.
as said im MEGA busy! so i dont even know when i will be able to get parts from the shell if required. or have time to wrap items to send out. so it may be a case of paying to secure an item, and then waiting a week or 2 until u get it. i will most likely have to pay a mechanic on my industrial estate to strip the car for me as i dont have any time to do so! just depends when he has a free day.
this post is more just a heads up to let people know items will be available for sale, but i will officially put a for sale thread up once the car is in bits! as said if there is something specific your after and you dont mind waiting then get in touch and you can secure the item with payment. i will post a thread in 944 section with a list and prices at some point. but you can see the bits i have for the car in this thread.
i also have a 2.5 lux oval dash that will be coming apart if any1 needs any bits, as it has completly rotten sills-inner/outer and into the rear mounts. this has full interior etc (half leather, beige)and a few bits such as dansk ss exhaust system, script handles, lowering springs on the front, clear indicator lenses, d90 wheels 7/8j, wheel spacers to allow late wheels to be fitted to early cars with studs etc etc.
please dont try to convince me to stick with it, i have made the decision now, its the only way im going to achieve getting on track next year, and like i say i have a financial commitment to honour, so its something i have to do! i wish it was different, but the whole time im busy, this car isnt going to get a look in!
this isnt the only project thats getting sold! i have a caterham to finish and sell, a mk1 escort shell thats not had a look in for a year and a bmw 635csi thats mid manual conversion that will be sold! once all these are sorted and sold i will be back in the position to re invest in a track ready car.
thanks for all the interest in the thread. hopefully i will be starting a new thread of some kind of much smaller porsche project in the near future!
nick
with massive regret i have decided to abandon this project!
reason being is that i have become massively busy and am currently fully booked up every day until middle of febuary now! i am literally not going to have a single minute to spare working on this car, and after doing the sums on the sort of hours left to get this car how i want it, there is no chance this car is going to be done ready for use for next years track season, and possibly not even the season after that!
i have run my buisness for 4 years now building cars for other people, and i just want to get on track myself as its what i enjoy doing more than anything! if i continue with this project its just never going to happen! to add 2 of my close friends have just bought track ready cars, and are booked on track in the next couple of weeks. so i will be missing out on doing track days with them as well!
i have finally realised that due to my work load, i just dont have the time to do large personal projects any more, and so the only way i will achieve getting on track next year, is to buy a track car 99% complete, and just do a few tweeks myself and use the bloody thing!
on top of my time issues, i have also been asked to pay back a loan from a family member in full as they have suddenly had a change in circumstance, so the money from the car will soften the blow here!
i am certainly not leaving the porsche ownership experience for long! i will most likely find a nice 944/968 as a daily at some point in the future, or possibly even buy a 968cs or similar well prepared car as my choice of track car!
very sorry to all of you that may have been following the thread with interest! i would have loved to have seen this car finished and set up with 400+hp!
so all parts from this car will be available for sale, all parts will be removed from the shell, and i will be keeping the shell in stock for any potential interested customers after a race shell build for next year. i have obviously already stripped the interior, installed 6 point harness points in the shell, seat rails, extinguishers, and we can have the shell dipped, any repairs carried out, full seam welding and weld in cage to whatever spec is required etc etc. any interested people please get in touch for details and pricing etc.
all other parts will be for sale, please get in touch with what your after, sales will be on a strictly first come first served basis as there are some quite sought after parts and so items will be sold to those who pay for the item first! otherwise it is almost impossible to stay on top of.-
all enquiries to info@nicksonmotorsport.co.uk - as i will find it hard to stay on top of enquiries on here!
i will post a for sale thread for the main parts at some point soon. in the mean time just get in touch via email.
as said im MEGA busy! so i dont even know when i will be able to get parts from the shell if required. or have time to wrap items to send out. so it may be a case of paying to secure an item, and then waiting a week or 2 until u get it. i will most likely have to pay a mechanic on my industrial estate to strip the car for me as i dont have any time to do so! just depends when he has a free day.
this post is more just a heads up to let people know items will be available for sale, but i will officially put a for sale thread up once the car is in bits! as said if there is something specific your after and you dont mind waiting then get in touch and you can secure the item with payment. i will post a thread in 944 section with a list and prices at some point. but you can see the bits i have for the car in this thread.
i also have a 2.5 lux oval dash that will be coming apart if any1 needs any bits, as it has completly rotten sills-inner/outer and into the rear mounts. this has full interior etc (half leather, beige)and a few bits such as dansk ss exhaust system, script handles, lowering springs on the front, clear indicator lenses, d90 wheels 7/8j, wheel spacers to allow late wheels to be fitted to early cars with studs etc etc.
please dont try to convince me to stick with it, i have made the decision now, its the only way im going to achieve getting on track next year, and like i say i have a financial commitment to honour, so its something i have to do! i wish it was different, but the whole time im busy, this car isnt going to get a look in!
this isnt the only project thats getting sold! i have a caterham to finish and sell, a mk1 escort shell thats not had a look in for a year and a bmw 635csi thats mid manual conversion that will be sold! once all these are sorted and sold i will be back in the position to re invest in a track ready car.
thanks for all the interest in the thread. hopefully i will be starting a new thread of some kind of much smaller porsche project in the near future!
nick
nicksonmsport
New member
well its been a while since i have posted on here, in the mean time i have built myself a good quick mitsubishi evo track day car that has actually seen me out on track a few times this year already! the evo is nearing the stage of where i want it to be, and so im considering a new project!
as i have the evo to use and enjoy, im no longer in a rush to have something built quickly, and so in light of this, i am seriously considering slowly rebuilding my 944 turbo shell back into a minty mint clubsport style road/track toy!
im thinking of prepping the shell, and making it nice and light without all the uneccessary stuff, maybe loose the underseal, and seam weld the shell for strength, add a rollcage of some kind, bucket seats etc, full respray, but still keep it a nice place to be.
in the mean time i can collect bits i need, and refurbish items that i have on the shelf that have come off the car, get everything looking smart, and anything that needs replacing done along the way.
the engine is in good health, and out of the car, so i could start giving that a little refresh, new head gasket, maybe some head work etc.
i may buy a sheddy/crashed/rotten turbo and use this for some donor parts as obviously i have sold a few of the turbo parts over the last few months (luckily not much, and mainly stuff that i would replace with uprated items anyway)
it will be a long term project, that gets bits and bobs along the way, but i really did like the 944 turbo before it came apart, and now i have something to get me out on track days etc, the turbo build can be a sideline.
with decent 944 turbos becoming hard to find, and prices rising, i think its a project thats worthwhile undertaking, and i will be left with an awsome example of a brilliant car, that i can enjoy in a few years time once finished.
im not saying this is 100% going ahead, but i am very tempted!! so keep an eye on this thread or a new one, and it may become something to follow.
thanks
nick
as i have the evo to use and enjoy, im no longer in a rush to have something built quickly, and so in light of this, i am seriously considering slowly rebuilding my 944 turbo shell back into a minty mint clubsport style road/track toy!
im thinking of prepping the shell, and making it nice and light without all the uneccessary stuff, maybe loose the underseal, and seam weld the shell for strength, add a rollcage of some kind, bucket seats etc, full respray, but still keep it a nice place to be.
in the mean time i can collect bits i need, and refurbish items that i have on the shelf that have come off the car, get everything looking smart, and anything that needs replacing done along the way.
the engine is in good health, and out of the car, so i could start giving that a little refresh, new head gasket, maybe some head work etc.
i may buy a sheddy/crashed/rotten turbo and use this for some donor parts as obviously i have sold a few of the turbo parts over the last few months (luckily not much, and mainly stuff that i would replace with uprated items anyway)
it will be a long term project, that gets bits and bobs along the way, but i really did like the 944 turbo before it came apart, and now i have something to get me out on track days etc, the turbo build can be a sideline.
with decent 944 turbos becoming hard to find, and prices rising, i think its a project thats worthwhile undertaking, and i will be left with an awsome example of a brilliant car, that i can enjoy in a few years time once finished.
im not saying this is 100% going ahead, but i am very tempted!! so keep an eye on this thread or a new one, and it may become something to follow.
thanks
nick
nicksonmsport
New member
also if anyone see's or knows of a 944 turbo which is cheap, crashed, rusty etc etc, let me know.
thanks
nick
thanks
nick
nicksonmsport
New member
i build roll cages for a living so i wont be needing one of those lol! thanks for the heads up though. interested to see pics of the seats. thanks
George Elliott
New member
nothing wrong with that, I am sure he did a better job than a YTS with a laser
George
944t
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