New Turbo owner - few niggles

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Frenchy
There is about a 30 mm difference between early and later (ABS) Turbo wishbones

If this is the case, and I might be reading this incorrectly, but is the implication that Oliver's car is fitted with late wishbones when it should have the early ones?

That would make for a terrible car, surely? 30mm incorrect width at the bottom of the front wishbones would give enormous amounts of negative camber ... I'm surprised they fitted ...

(Or do I have the wrong end of the stick somewhere here?)


Oli.

 

[Ollie86]

Thanks very much for all the detailed reponses chaps, very much appreciated.

I'm completely out of my comfort zone mechanically with this car, and am now as confused as you all RE the wishbones. I'll be picking the car up this afternoon hopefully work permitting so will get an opportunity to drill down into what the situation is.

I'm told that fundamentally the car is very good and a great basis for a really nice example, but as with every second hand performance car there is a list of jobs to do. It'll now be a case of prioritising these in order of importance over the coming months in order to get the car right upto scratch.

I'll update the thread later today once I know more.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Ollie86]

Right then, so the car is outside my office and driving much nicer.

Turns out I didn't need a new steering UJ shaft, as it was actually a new part. But the top bolt was get loose indeed and about to drop out, now correctly attached the steering feels much better as you can imagine and I've really enjoyed driving the car to work.

In terms of the rest of the car, it does need some work but it'll be prioritised and all dealt with in due course. It needs the following to make it absolutely spot on;

Output shaft seals weep
Rear main seal weep
Timing belt area weep
Cam carrier weep

Front dampers need replacing
Front top mounts worn
Front ARB bushes worn

Discs & pads on all 4 corners worn and pitted

RE the front arms, I'm a little perplexed about this still to be honest. They're the steel type, not alloy apparently. I'm told that these two types of arms give different geometry and would affect my handling. Can anyone confirm this? The arms, bushes and ball joints are perfect condition wise.

The above reads like a lot, but I'm planning to get it taken care of in the following order;

1. Belt area & cam cover leaks - January 2013. Whilst its there I'll have a new belt fitted for good measure.

2. Top mounts, ARB bushes & dampers.

3. Discs, pads & fluid all round.

If in future it needs a clutch, I'll get the rear main seal and the seals on the box done at the same time.

I'm in talks with the P/O too about the OE wheels too, I plan to pop up north to get them in January.

So, a few things to do but I'm delighted to hear that the car is fundamentally very sound, the engine in rude health and free of any corrosion.

Thanks for the advice and comments, very much appreciated.

Oliver

 

[944Turbo]

If its an 86 car it would have alloy arms but they are interchangeable with the steel (same dimensions) which are considerably cheaper. The later cars made from 87ish on had ABS offset and different arms.
Tony

 

[Ollie86]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

If its an 86 car it would have alloy arms but they are interchangeable with the steel (same dimensions) which are considerably cheaper. The later cars made from 87ish on had ABS offset and different arms.
Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks very much for the clarification.

In that case you have just saved me a small fortune, cheers!

 

[Hairyarse]

Any pics for us yet Ollie?? []

Top mounts are quite pricey, seen on a recent post. ARB bushes are cheap though from Porsche. As you list, worth doing all point 2 together then get geo check done again.

Ref brakes, keep an eye out for Euro Car Parts doing 30% discount code off brakes. Seems to happen at least once per month

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: Ollie86

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

If its an 86 car it would have alloy arms but they are interchangeable with the steel (same dimensions) which are considerably cheaper. The later cars made from 87ish on had ABS offset and different arms.
Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks very much for the clarification.

In that case you have just saved me a small fortune, cheers!

They arent quite a bolt on replacement. You will need to use 924S ARB mountings and the arm will need carefully drilling, but when these are fitted theyll fit right on.



Simon

 

[Ollie86]

Hi Andy, thanks I'll keep my eyes peeled. I do finally have some pictures to upload tonight of the car you'll be pleased to hear.

How sensitive are 944's to wheel changes? I'm running heavy 17's currently as opposed to the standard 16" teledials, would reverting back to OE make that much difference?

My idle still feels a little poor, it shudders and shakes around the 800rpm mark, but if I pick the revs up to 1,000 rpm it's totally vibration free. Any thoughts?

 

[Diver944]

17s will give a firmer ride because you have less rubber in the sidewall than a 16, and generally speaking the tyre sizes are wider as well. Some people don't like a firm ride and will tell you to stick with 16s but its all down to personal preference and you won't know what you prefer until you try them. If you do stick with the 17s make sure you have the latest castor mounts fitted to the back of your wishbones. The original version will be way past its best by now and also contains a lot more rubber than the updated version so you get a lot of tramlining. They are circa £50 each and easy to fit at home

I've had 17s on for the past 100,000 miles and they feel totally normal to me, however I'll be refitting some 16s with winter tyres next week so I'll probably come on here moaning that my car has gone all soft and wallowy like a saloon []

Tyre brand and tread depth also makes a difference. I bought some secondhand weels with Pirelli P Zeros at 4mm some years ago and they felt horrible. When I replaced them with new budget Kumhos the ride was suddenly transformed [] It was a world of difference from a tyre that cost a 3rd of the big brand

 

[Ollie86]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

17s will give a firmer ride because you have less rubber in the sidewall than a 16, and generally speaking the tyre sizes are wider as well. Some people don't like a firm ride and will tell you to stick with 16s but its all down to personal preference and you won't know what you prefer until you try them. If you do stick with the 17s make sure you have the latest castor mounts fitted to the back of your wishbones. The original version will be way past its best by now and also contains a lot more rubber than the updated version so you get a lot of tramlining. They are circa £50 each and easy to fit at home

I've had 17s on for the past 100,000 miles and they feel totally normal to me, however I'll be refitting some 16s with winter tyres next week so I'll probably come on here moaning that my car has gone all soft and wallowy like a saloon []

Tyre brand and tread depth also makes a difference. I bought some secondhand weels with Pirelli P Zeros at 4mm some years ago and they felt horrible. When I replaced them with new budget Kumhos the ride was suddenly transformed [] It was a world of difference from a tyre that cost a 3rd of the big brand

Good to know, thanks. Don't suppose you have a link to the castor mounts do you? I am getting a lot of tramlining as it happens.

I really don't like the look of the teledials, but if the difference is night and day I'd tolerate them.

 

[edh]

I think the wheel/tyre weight will be the major factor in improving the car. I believe that cup 1 reps in early offset (ET23) are heavy wheels. It would be interesting to weigh the 16 and 17" set. I have 17's on my car, but they are very light - approx 20kg inc tyre.

Even if you don't like the 16's, I think you could sell them on for reasonable money.

Hartech sell the caster mounts - seem my link earlier on this thread.

 

[944Turbo]

ORIGINAL: 944 man

ORIGINAL: Ollie86

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

If its an 86 car it would have alloy arms but they are interchangeable with the steel (same dimensions) which are considerably cheaper. The later cars made from 87ish on had ABS offset and different arms.
Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks very much for the clarification.

In that case you have just saved me a small fortune, cheers!

They arent quite a bolt on replacement. You will need to use 924S ARB mountings and the arm will need carefully drilling, but when these are fitted theyll fit right on.



Simon

I didn't realise that, given the other comments, I wonder how carefully they were fitted then!

I am sure with new castor mounts, wishbone front bushes, arb rubbers and fresh dampers it will be very much improved, I know my coupe was at around 10 years and 90k miles.

The replacement original shocks were starting to feel soft again after about 60K, but they were running with lower firmer Eibach springs which probably worked them harder

Later on it had 968CS ARBs and Leda (non coil over rears) which improved it further - though a little firm for some (my wifes) tastes.

The cab at 75k would benefit from some new dampers in the next 10k miles, it feels a bit floaty in rebound sometimes.

Tony

 

[944 man]

I have a .pdf of an article somewhere, which is publicising Pork Chops welded extended early/Golf arms which are adapted to fit 1987> series two cars.

You can see the different roll bar mounting and I believe that the 924S workaround is explained too. I will try to find and post it.



Simon

 

[George Elliott]

How sensitive are 944's to wheel changes? I'm running heavy 17's currently as opposed to the standard 16" teledials, would reverting back to OE make that much difference?

Ollie,
consider it like....... a ballet dancer wearing Wellies........

I understand the appeal of the Cup 1 rim, my 944t has a set fitted as we speak, but the original forged 16" rims are much nicer on it. I plan to fit a set of 17" classic BBS which are correct offset and the lightest 17" OE rim I can find. The tele's will grow on you....... I really like them

Ultimate 951 look for me....., your Red early offset car on black OE Fuch's, with a 924T badge panel and bonnet vent, front splitter.......

Good luck
George
944t

 

[944 man]

The greater the weight, the greater the resistance to turning off centre, because the wheel is a giant gyroscope. Hold a bicycle wheel by the spindle, get someone to spin it and then try to alter the plane or direction. Its very difficult, so image how much difference 10kgs more wheel makes at road speeds.

 

[George Elliott]

I've heard it said that 1 Kilo of unsprung weight is equivalent to 8kg of sprung mass......
The whole subject of "light alloy road wheels" is a total con, generally the pressed steel version is lighter........hence a base model Seat rental car drives like a motorbike.....[]
George
944t