multiple turbo track prep questions !

[nick_968]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

I made the mistake of leaving my brakes as the standard 944 M030 disks and callipers after the power was boosted to 400bhp. A marginally lightened car on R Rated rubber had terminal failure for me. After the repairs I went straight to the 928GTS Big Blacks with new master cylinder and goodridge hoses and they felt absolutely awesome. No soft pedal and plenty of reserve to soak up heat in those larger disks.

I did many, many trackdays at circa 320bhp on Full race slicks with the standard M030 callipers and never had a problem. Make sure you use good track pads like PF97 and run ducting from the bumper vents right to the back of the disk and you'll be fine on a fully lightened car up to 350bhp IMHO

With nearly 500 lb/ft torque its not the best comparison for most 944 turbos! As you say ducting makes all the difference.

 

[333pg333]

ps Paul, what % do you guys use to convert bhp to whp?

 

[nicksonmsport]

seam welding would be beneficial, buts its a very labour intensive job. especially with the silly amounts of seam sealer porsche use! the car will also be receiving a comprehensive weld in cage and so seam welding although beneficial is not so important once a decent cage is added. i would love to get the shell dipped and start from scratch, but i just dont have the time to build the car from scratch again. i am already building a grp4 mk1 escort from the shell up (this is being fully seam welded). this 944 turbo is for fun atm, if i fall in love with it, and want to race it, then i may consider building a shell from scratch, but for a track car, its over the top.

 

[nicksonmsport]

i may purchase a spare shell and prep it for use gradually, and then when the time comes, reshell the turbo into a prepped shell.

for those of you interested, this is a 700bhp supercharged honda s2000 bodyshell we prepped for HEL performance (brake lines etc) demo vehicle. i would love to do a 944 shell like this for myself. we shall see what happens!
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.10150101031550797.312699.171986635796&type=3
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150384201100797.410307.171986635796&type=3

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

ps Paul, what % do you guys use to convert bhp to whp?

All my tests were done on the same Dyno Dynamics machine and when I look at the graphs comparing BHP and WHP they all seem to be around the 18% mark, ie the 393bhp plot had a corresponding 333whp plot

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport

seam welding would be beneficial, buts its a very labour intensive job. especially with the silly amounts of seam sealer porsche use! the car will also be receiving a comprehensive weld in cage and so seam welding although beneficial is not so important once a decent cage is added. i would love to get the shell dipped and start from scratch, but i just dont have the time to build the car from scratch again. i am already building a grp4 mk1 escort from the shell up (this is being fully seam welded). this 944 turbo is for fun atm, if i fall in love with it, and want to race it, then i may consider building a shell from scratch, but for a track car, its over the top.

Yes, it really is.


Simon

 

[Neil Haughey]

Depends if you can put cage out riggers on to the suspension pick up points but this would still leave the floor un-stiffened.

 

[nicksonmsport]

i do agree that seam welding is certainly beneficial. but for a track day car its not required! a decent weld in cage will stiffen the bodyshell a huge amount, and yes i can pick up on suspension mounts with the cage. if i was building the car from scratch, i would certainly seam weld the shell. but this is purely a track car for fun. if it turns into something more serious, then i will source another shell, and fully prep this then reshell the car.

i prep bodyshells for a living, i seam weld bodyshells every day! if you have ever done the job yourself, you will know how much of a pig of a job it is to do on anything other than an acid dipped shell. prepping the seams for welding is a nightmare, and your still left with seam sealer sandwiched between the seams even once the top coating is removed. which makes for a terrible weld as the seam sealer burns through. if i was going to seam weld a shell, i wouldnt bother unless the shell was dipped first! in fact most race prep companys will refuse to seam weld a shell unless its been dipped or blasted first. its a horrible job, and not one i want to spend days doing, when the aim of this project is to be on track within the next 2 months!

i barley have time to do the basic track prep i am carrying out on this car between customer work, nevermind adding seam welding into the equation!

 

[944 man]

Dipping adds £1,000 of real cost though, hence my not suggesting it. I do realise how much of a pain in the arse trying to one on one off an undipped car will be, but Ive suggested it because I know how beneficial it is.

The trick is knowing where to stop.....[]

 

[nicksonmsport]

yes your right it adds a few quid to the budget! the purpose of this car will be having fun on track, im trying to stop the work involved etc from running away from me, as i decide to spec the car up more and more. i have a simple spec i want to achieve so the car can be used within the next few months. if i love the car, and keep it, then i will invest more time and money in making the car how i want it as time goes on. i dont want it turning into another large scale project that sits in the workshop in bits for the next year ! like my caterham and mk1 escort have done!

this needs to be on track within the next 2 months max! so im keeping the jobs to a minimum so i can achieve this lol

 

[AndrewS]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport
[1] wheels spacers? best place to source them at a reasonable price. seen lots on ebay but at around £120 a pair, anything cheaper out there?

[2] steering wheel boss- there seems to be 2 types, up to 1986, and 86 onwards. my car is an 86 turbo, so unsure as to which i require. im thinking up to 86 is square dash type, and post 86 oval dash??

[3] thinking of using oddessy 20, or 40, or varley 15 or 40 battery. which would be most suitable for the 2.5 turbo engine, according to specs all of these batterys should support a 2.5 litre engine with alternator

[4] what engine oil do people recommend for track day use and how often to change oil/filter

[5] recommended gearbox oil for non lsd gearbox, (bit noisy)

Hello Nick,

Suggestions (based on my opinions / experiences)
[1] I have never used wheel spacers - I recommend wider wheels so the centre of the wheel still aligns with the wheel bearing.
[2] All 944T had later oval dash
[3] Varley Red Top 15 will start the car, but if you are not trailering the car a Varley Red Top 25 may leave you a little more in reserve. I used a 15 equivalent in my 944T race car (very light and always worked).
[4] Castrol RS 10W/60 Motorsport or Royal Purple's XPR 10W-40 (if your engine is a fresh build use RP)
[5] Royal Purple Max Gear

Regards,
Andrew

 

[944Turbo]

Just catching up but it seemed you were going to sell your hubs and MO30 (medium black) calipers what were you going to mount the big/red blacks onto?
I have big blacks as well my medium blacks (that I had painted red []) had multiple issues and the big blacks were available at an excellent price for a while - cheaper than a refurb! I unbolted by mediums and bolted on the bigs plus discs. As it happens the cross 'drilled' discs from I think a 964 Turbo were the cheapest option - significantly cheaper than the solid faced 928 discs - however they cracked - only small cracks so far but cracks non the less. As stated earlier the bigs need 17" wheels.
Tony

 

[944Turbo]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

Just catching up but it seemed you were going to sell your hubs and MO30 (medium black) calipers what were you going to mount the big/red blacks onto?
I have big blacks as well my medium blacks (that I had painted red []) had multiple issues and the big blacks were available at an excellent price for a while - cheaper than a refurb! I unbolted by mediums and bolted on the bigs plus discs. As it happens the cross 'drilled' discs from I think a 964 Turbo were the cheapest option - significantly cheaper than the solid faced 928 discs - however they cracked - only small cracks so far but cracks non the less. As stated earlier the bigs need 17" wheels.
Tony

edited to add just remembered you have a second car so with adaptors you could use the BR kit - the calipers bolt onto the mo30 hubs without adaptors

 

[nicksonmsport]

i have decided to keep the m030 hubs and calipers. and will just refurb (if needed once removed and inspected) and then run pagid rs29 on the front, and rs4/2 on the back. along with braided lines all round, and motorsport fluid.
can anyone recommend the best place to buy the pagid pads from, design911 have slight discount on them but they still come in at £473 inc vat for the set.

bought a pair of fibreglass front wings today, and a fg front bumper with splitter. and won some rear braided lines on ebay for a bargain. (fronts are already running braided lines)

im on the parts lookout atm, and will be making some orders for the bulk of the parts needed for the build very soon

andrew, thanks for the info provided.

nick

 

[944 man]

Further to what Andrew said, Id only use spacers to keep the centre of the wheel rim where Porsche intended. Offset will be 52.3mm with a 7" rim and obviously this will increase by 12.7mm for every extra inch of rim width added.