multiple turbo track prep questions !

[nicksonmsport]

after writing out the full list of items needed to purchase for my 944 turbo track build, there are a few questions on my mind that i want clearing up so i can go and bulk buy the parts so i can get stuck in!

wheels spacers? best place to source them at a reasonable price. seen lots on ebay but at around £120 a pair, anything cheaper out there?

steering wheel boss- there seems to be 2 types, up to 1986, and 86 onwards. my car is an 86 turbo, so unsure as to which i require. im thinking up to 86 is square dash type, and post 86 oval dash??

thinking of using oddessy 20, or 40, or varley 15 or 40 battery. which would be most suitable for the 2.5 turbo engine, according to specs all of these batterys should support a 2.5 litre engine with alternator

what engine oil do people recommend for track day use and how often to change oil/filter

recommended gearbox oil for non lsd gearbox, (bit noisy)

gear change is quite slow and long throw. is there a decent short shift kit out there that gives a precise and quick gearchange. are there bushes etc to change aswell to tighten things up

last but not least, when removing the inlet/intercooler system on the car to check the turbo shaft play a lot of the vacuum hoses seemed to pretty much fall off, which cant be good for boost control! can i just replace these lines with silicone vacuum hose and t piece/y piece connectors. there seems to be vacuum lines everywhere on this engine, and want to make sure they are all sealing and working correctly, and more importantly not blowing off.

sorry for all the questions in one place, but its easier than posting seperate threads for each question. once i have answers the bits can be ordered and progress shall commence.

many thanks
nick

 

[944 man]

Steering boss - series one and series two. Series two cars were built for the 1986 model year, but will have been built from September 1985.

Some brands/types are suitable for early and late styles (these dont have a built in horn ring and utilise the Porsche horn ring which you unscrew from you exisitng wheel). Those which have an integrated horn ring (Momo for eg) will only be suitable for one or the other.

Personally Id buy a Momo for a 1986> car, like yours.

 

[Diver944]

wheels spacers? best place to source them at a reasonable price. seen lots on ebay but at around £120 a pair, anything cheaper out there?

http://www.jasmine-motorsport.co.uk/ always used to have the best prices

what engine oil do people recommend for track day use and how often to change oil/filter

For heavy track work with a 944T you need something that can cope with the heat like Silkolene Pro R 15w50, it has Ester too for added protection. I used to change it every 3 or 4 trackdays

recommended gearbox oil for non lsd gearbox, (bit noisy)

Swepco from Bert Gear at www.partsforporsche.co.uk always gets good reviews

gear change is quite slow and long throw. is there a decent short shift kit out there that gives a precise and quick gearchange. are there bushes etc to change aswell to tighten things up

Renew the linkage on top of the gearbox at the back. A standard one will be fine, I fitted short shift and I felt it ruined the gearchange. Check the FAQ section of tis forum for tips on renewing the bushes at the gearstick end

last but not least, when removing the inlet/intercooler system on the car to check the turbo shaft play a lot of the vacuum hoses seemed to pretty much fall off, which cant be good for boost control! can i just replace these lines with silicone vacuum hose and t piece/y piece connectors. there seems to be vacuum lines everywhere on this engine, and want to make sure they are all sealing and working correctly, and more importantly not blowing off.

Standard silicon hose with good connectors will be fine. Promax sell a kit with diagrams

 

[edh]

I'd also suggest beefing up the cooling system - the 25 year old oil cooler won't be working at it's best, nor will the rad. If you're going to run more boost or a dpw (holding peak boost for longer) then you will generate even more heat. On a long session on a hot day, you may also eventually heat soak the intercooler..

Oil - I'd go for 10w60 millers personally (I'm just going to try mobil 1 10w60 in my high mileage S2 track car as it was quite cheap at camskill) Oil change depends on usage really. It will use oil on track.

The gearchange will never be quick, but a fresh linkage on the box will make things more precise, definitely. It's never going to change gear like a Honda though.

oh yes - one other thing..I'd recommend a square setup for tyres - 225 all round (or bigger if you want to spend more..) I think it is balanced better like that

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: Diver944



wheels spacers? best place to source them at a reasonable price. seen lots on ebay but at around £120 a pair, anything cheaper out there?

http://www.jasmine-motorsport.co.uk/ always used to have the best prices

what engine oil do people recommend for track day use and how often to change oil/filter

For heavy track work with a 944T you need something that can cope with the heat like Silkolene Pro R 15w50, it has Ester too for added protection. I used to change it every 3 or 4 trackdays

recommended gearbox oil for non lsd gearbox, (bit noisy)

Swepco from Bert Gear at www.partsforporsche.co.uk always gets good reviews

gear change is quite slow and long throw. is there a decent short shift kit out there that gives a precise and quick gearchange. are there bushes etc to change aswell to tighten things up

Renew the linkage on top of the gearbox at the back. A standard one will be fine, I fitted short shift and I felt it ruined the gearchange. Check the FAQ section of tis forum for tips on renewing the bushes at the gearstick end

last but not least, when removing the inlet/intercooler system on the car to check the turbo shaft play a lot of the vacuum hoses seemed to pretty much fall off, which cant be good for boost control! can i just replace these lines with silicone vacuum hose and t piece/y piece connectors. there seems to be vacuum lines everywhere on this engine, and want to make sure they are all sealing and working correctly, and more importantly not blowing off.

Standard silicon hose with good connectors will be fine. Promax sell a kit with diagrams

What he said.

Got my spacers from Jasmine, £110+ (H+R) is about the price for decent german made set unfortunately. Fuchs Titan Pro S is now what Silkolene is called, their 10w50 or 15w50 would be more than capable, go much thicker and you risk overheating IMO, good quality ester wont shear down like mineral or semi either.

Also agree with short shifter as they can make for a stiff gear change, replacing the stock one is probably the better option if yours is sloppy.


Edd

 

[MarkK]

Kev at EMC Birmingham built a track turbo for me that worked really well and knows answers to all the questions you ask,i am sure he could do it all for you,or do you a mail order pack.His prices are very competitive.

 

[chrisg]

IMHO,

I wouldn't bother with spacers - this will put addtional load on the bearings and axle stubs for little or no benefit.

IMHO,

I would spend you money and time on:

1. As Ed pointed out - cooling system refresh both oil and water rads, check rubber hoses for splits or imminent failure - no point in heading out on a track day only for the smallest heater matrix hose (up against the bulkhead) to split and ruin your day !

2. Brake system refresh, all four calipers off, cleaned dust removed and where necessary do the SS plates. Then new fluid, new pads (and discs if necessary) together with SS flexible lines.

3. Suspension - as a bear min. I would change all the rubber bushes in the system and check the front wishbone joints.

Unless you're in the lucky situation of your car having had a lot of money/time spent on it, the last 20+ yrs of British roads and wear/tear will have taken their toll. First trick with a track car is make it stop, handle and be reliable !

Yours

Chris

 

[nicksonmsport]

thanks for the info guys, i own and run a motorsport fabrication and prep company so i wont be needing anyone to do any work for me, i also know the drill when it comes to building a race/track car, just after some 944 turbo specific info from 944 turbo owners who have been through the process already.

car has already been checked over and all reliablility issues noted and everything that needs attention will be getting it. radiator is leaking anyway so this will be replaced and all coolant hoses checked. aftermarket larger oil cooler is already on the cards.

all suspension bushes will be replaced, gaz coilovers fitted with reindex, strut bracing etc, uprated arb's, full custom weld in cage etc etc,

front brakes will be replaced with 911 gt2 big reds kit, as i stumbled accross a huge bonus today and found that the front brakes on my car are the mo30 968 clubsports with radial mounted calipers and mo30 hubs with abs sensors, im told this setup is worth big bucks and will pretty much pay for a big reds kit! rears will be refreshed and running pagid race pads.

the car has an incredible history with every porsche stamp in the book, and a folder of receipts adding up to well in 5 figures.

many thanks
nick

 

[chrisg]

Brucie bonus on the 968 Calipers = Big Blacks, are you sure they're the 968 ones and not the Turbo S (928 S4) ones ?

You'll know if they're the 968 ones as they'll only take a 17" wheel

 

[nicksonmsport]

yes it was a pleasant surprise! its the hubs that are worth the money, but yes the calipers im unsure of atm, i was told they were 928 gts calipers when i bought the car. the car is running 17 inch wheels. if i offer up my s2 d90s will this tell me which calipers they are? if they foul then 968? if not, then 928? the discs are very thick compared to my s2 discs.

 

[rcsalmons]

ORIGINAL: chrisg

Brucie bonus on the 968 Calipers = Big Blacks, are you sure they're the 968 ones and not the Turbo S (928 S4) ones ?

You'll know if they're the 968 ones as they'll only take a 17" wheel

968 M030 were the same as Turbo S. 968/Turbo S run 304mm discs and Big Blacks (928 GTS) 322mm.

Bought my spacers from EMC Motor Sport along with longer wheel studs and steel nuts.

I have a container of Swepco here if interested.

Rich

 

[nicksonmsport]

ok, so turbo s had 304mm discs and radially mounted calipers? (medium blacks???) were the turbo s hubs the same as the 968cs mo30 hubs then?

i am told the brakes on this are from 928 gts, and the hubs are radial mounts without any kind of adaptor. so are these ''big blacks'' and 968 cs/944 turbo s mo30 hubs?

just trying to determine for sure what i have so i can price accordingly.

thanks

 

[rcsalmons]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport

ok, so turbo s had 304mm discs and radially mounted calipers? (medium blacks???) were the turbo s hubs the same as the 968cs mo30 hubs then?

YES AND YES

i am told the brakes on this are from 928 gts, and the hubs are radial mounts without any kind of adaptor. so are these ''big blacks'' and 968 cs/944 turbo s mo30 hubs?

YES

just trying to determine for sure what i have so i can price accordingly.

thanks

FYI 928 GTS - Big Blacks are cheaper than M030's from OPC.

 

[nicksonmsport]

i have just dug out some invoices from the history folder, and the discs fitted are the 928 s4 vented item. so i assume the calipers must be the mo30 big blacks. these are mounted directly to radial mount hubs so i assume these must be mo30 hubs.

the pads fitted are listed as 993c2/993c2s/968cs/944t/928

 

[nicksonmsport]

thats cheeky from the OPC seeing as they seem to be identical calipers?? thanks for your help identifying this setup. i have been given an idea of value from 2 different sources and they differ quite a lot, so im trying to determine a value for the setup at the minute.

 

[rcsalmons]

Medium Blacks then so Turbo S, 968 M030.

Rich

 

[rcsalmons]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport

thats cheeky from the OPC seeing as they seem to be identical calipers?? thanks for your help identifying this setup. i have been given an idea of value from 2 different sources and they differ quite a lot, so im trying to determine a value for the setup at the minute.

They look near identical but the GTS run bigger pads and allow you to run the bigger discs.

 

[nicksonmsport]

so what exactly are the ''big blacks'' ?
i need to measure the discs to see if they are the 304 or 322mm.

 

[MarkK]

Any chance of some pics or a build thread??Sounds Exciting!

 

[rcsalmons]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport

so what exactly are the ''big blacks'' ?
i need to measure the discs to see if they are the 304 or 322mm.

This may help - http://www.968cs.de/Fahrwerk_Umbau/Bilder/M030(17).jpg