Helmets - Open Face or Full Face?

[timarnold]

Chris, the HANS device offers protection against a broken neck that would otherwise be caused by the head being flung forward violently in a head-on impact.

It is basically a Carbon Fibre or GRP frame/moulding that sits on your shoulders, held in position by the shoulder straps of your harness. Two straps (made from the same type of webbing as seat belts, but much smaller) attached to the frame also attach to each side of your helmet, therefore restricting how far your head can travel away from your shoulders. They are a little uncomfortable until you get used to them and they restrict you from turning your head from side to side as much as you might prefer. They are compulsory in many racing categories, which can prove expensive if you drive different types of car because they come fixed in three different angles to suit different seating positions for single seaters and touring/sports cars.

 

[timarnold]

ORIGINAL: DSCBoy

In the interests of disclosure I should point out I have family links to both Stand 21 and HANS... I've raced with people who have died and I've had team mates walk away from crashes because they had the right safety gear.

BUT! I have seen too many people chew steering wheels because of open face helmets that I am of the opinion that open face should be banned. I would NEVER get out on a track in an open face. It's too hot? Uncomfortable? Diddums! Go knitting for the afternoon instead.

Similarly I've lost a couple of guys I knew because they were too stupid to buy a HANS device, preferring an extra set of tyres for the race weekend instead. Guessing their kids wished they'd bought the HANS device now.

Yes it's harsh. Yes it's the real world. But I get really f*cked off by people discussing safety on the web and convincing each other to take short cuts. (Not saying that the discussion here is of that nature).

It's really simple:

If your car has proper belts, you should be wearing a full face with HANS.

If your car has inertia real you should still be wearing full face and you should be asking some serious questions about how hard you want to push or whether you should be on the circuit at all.

Anything else is a stupid and inexcusable short cut.

Totally agree, Rick!

 

[DSCBoy]

Thanks Tim... rant-tastic on my behalf but... important stuff...

Firstly my wife actually could certify the helmets (she was Stand 21 UK!) and as described it's not a tough job if u know what you are doing, but these days you really need a sticker to say it's been done officially. Stand 21 will do their helmets for you for a very limited amount of Silver, some of the others are real B*STARDS about it... lots of dough, helmets sent away for long periods etc so beware.

Secondly to add to what was said about the HANS in action, the description is very good, but I'd like to add a little more on the way it works: Basically it sits on your shoulders and in an impact as your body goes forward it pulls your chin down onto your chest thus avoiding your body going forward, being stopped by the belts and then your head continuing onwards on it's own which usually results in what is called a basal skull fracture, or as we would know it, your neck snapping.

If you have harnesses. Get one. Simple. I'm in a situation where I won't get in a race car now without it, and if it gets left at home I'll actually scratch my entry. It's as much of a leap forward as seat belts IMHO.

Cheers
Rick

 

[timarnold]

No prob Rick!

I really ought to invest in a HANS myself but the problem is I don't race that often these days and when I do it could be in any one of various types of car, Radical, Caterham, Classic FF1600/2000 (something I would like to do), FunCup, Britcar (Touring or GT), which means to cover all possibilities I'd need at least two if not three and I simply don't have the budget to tie up in them.

For instructing the problem is many cars wouldn't support HANS (no harness), and even if they do it can seem a little inappropriate climbing into a customer's passenger seat wearing all that full-on safety kit (e.g. Arai GP* full face with HANS) when the customer is wearing a £50 "eBay special" open face. That's not the point, I know! But it's like taking your girlfriend out on your motorbike with you in full leathers and body armour while she's wearing a bikini top and miniskirt... and they do!

Other than that it's got to be a case of not pushing the limits when you're not fully "dressed" as you rightly said.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ISTR reading recently the HANS also helps in side impacts and oblique impacts rather than just head on impacts.

 

[DSCBoy]

Firstly Tim, to be honest I've used the same HANS that I bought to race LMP2 Lola B2K40 in 2004 in Clio Cup, Supertourer and Caterhams, if you get one that fits "saloon" angle of seat you'll be basically fine for the majority of stuff, although a full lay down single seater won't work with a saloon one obviously the Lola was half way to that and it's been no problem.

Secondly Neil, yes, the oblique impact is actually the key one, that's what killed Earnhardt because actually your neck stretches pretty well in the North/South direction, it's the 45 deg thats really dangerous, HANS will again grip the belts so as your body moves it tucks your chin onto your chest and protect your neck.

Cheers

 

[DSCBoy]

Check out the HANS crash test video in this link... 35mph look at how far neck is stretched in the lower video! Scary..

http://www.stand21.fr/hans/hans-2.html

 

[Neil Haughey]

Whilst we are on the subject if I end up buying an Arai GP-5W tomorrow, keep the peak or fit a visor? (I wear glasses and like the field of view so the W version seems ideal for me if I have an Arai shaped head of course)

 

[DSCBoy]

Or alternatively go see the kids at Stand 21 if you are anywhere near Brands or whichever track they are on this weekend and get them to fit a helmet to your head properly...
"Double duty" helmets come from them with peak AND visor so you can flip between the two depending if your head is in the breeze or not.
Cheers

 

[Neil Haughey]

Bought an Arai GP-6S in the end, easily the most comfortable helmet I have tried on and by some margin yet even without the chin strap done up it barely moves on my head in any direction (actually hurts my face taking it off, like my eyes are going to pop out). Never expected to find helmet perfection like that. Glasses on and off fine and despite the small viewport it doesn't cut into my field of view any more than glasses do anyway.

I also bought one of your Stand21 RS.2 Hans devices, I have been wearing it with the helmet around the house to get used to it and practice putting it on and taking off again. I figured in the end that if I eventually go to a HANS its got to be better to start with it as then I will just get used to it as part of everything else, rather than get used to racing and the car and then later have to adapt to the HANS + the obvious safety advantages anyway.

Does it matter btw if you get scratches etc on the spring loaded part and its surrounding base, of the HANS post mounting on the helmet? I can see that bit getting duffed up pretty quick.

 

[timarnold]

ORIGINAL: DSCBoy
Firstly Tim, to be honest I've used the same HANS that I bought to race LMP2 Lola B2K40 in 2004 in Clio Cup, Supertourer and Caterhams, if you get one that fits "saloon" angle of seat you'll be basically fine for the majority of stuff, although a full lay down single seater won't work with a saloon one obviously the Lola was half way to that and it's been no problem.

I must try one soon, Rick! In the mean time I will have to continue using the 'HANDS' neck protection method... when an impact is inevitable, take your hands off the steering wheel and place them over your face (helmet) to support your head!

ORIGINAL: DSCBoy
Or alternatively go see the kids at Stand 21 if you are anywhere near Brands or whichever track they are on this weekend and get them to fit a helmet to your head properly...
"Double duty" helmets come from them with peak AND visor so you can flip between the two depending if your head is in the breeze or not.

I must admit I like the new (carbon) Stand 21 IVOS helmet, a guy I know has one and it's incredibly light, cost about £1,000, which is £1,500 cheaper than the Arai carbon helmet (GP6RC). I haven't tried one on so I don't know what the fit is like. I did once try a Stand 21 F21 while at Spa and the fit of that was horrible.

I started using Arai back in 1985 after previously favouring Bell, and it woukld really take something to prise me away from Arai, I find them so comfortable and such a perfect fit. My GP5K was due to expire at the end of this year (Snell 2000) but the MSA has extended their validity until the end of 2013, so I've just had mine relined (new padding, nomex lining and a new kevlar strap - which the UK distributor does FOC), and when I have a gap of a week to accommodate, it's going back to the painter to be repainted (well, touched up and re-lacquered), and that will do for track days. If I do any racing I plan to get a new GP6 (not the RC, unless I win the lottery! LOL) and will probably get a HANS at the same time.

 

[madmoog]

Neil, any photo's of you walking round the house helmeted and HANS'd up [] This thread is nothing without photos...........

On a serious note, HANS is starting to figure in my trackday thoughts.

 

[Neil Haughey]

I think I need a straw for the cuppa []

 

[DSCBoy]

Good work boys! Loving the HANS in the house!

 

[Hacki]

Who ze f*** is this HANS you are talking about?

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: Hacki

Who ze f*** is this HANS you are talking about?

It's not Hans Frei, is it? I think he had something to do with inventing bluetooth connections for mobile phones..........If not it could be Hans Zup, the bank robber.[]

 

[vitesse]

It is just his 1st name-the rest is knees & bumps a daisy.[]

 

[timarnold]

And there's no truth in the rumour that Hans Stuck invented super glue! [&:]

 

[timarnold]

On the subject of helmets and face protection, I wonder how many people remember these from the early 80's...

...that was Bell's 'Star' XFTW (twin window) designed to maximize protection against flying debris... in the pic is the unmistakable helmet livery of Jacky Ickx... several F1 and other top drivers sported them for a while. I tried one - when you're wearing it the central part almost disappears. Bell have started producing modern reproductions of the classic 'Star' range... I wonder if they'll do this one? []