Cayman 718 GPF Failure
- Thread starter Wrightrubber
- Start date
AndrewCS
Active member
Of no real help, just as reference ...
Having just taken out an (extended) Insured Warranty on a BMW I enquired whether GPF`s were covered given that Catalysts are
The response was that they are covered subject to not having exceeded their service life, although I did purposely source a model that was not fitted with one
Having just taken out an (extended) Insured Warranty on a BMW I enquired whether GPF`s were covered given that Catalysts are
The response was that they are covered subject to not having exceeded their service life, although I did purposely source a model that was not fitted with one
AndrewCS said:Of no real help, just as reference ...
Having just taken out an (extended) Insured Warranty on a BMW I enquired whether GPF`s were covered given that Catalysts are
The response was that they are covered subject to not having exceeded their service life, although I did purposely source a model that was not fitted with one
I guess that begs the question, how long is the service life???
AndrewCS
Active member
Twinfan said:AndrewCS said:Of no real help, just as reference ...
Having just taken out an (extended) Insured Warranty on a BMW I enquired whether GPF`s were covered given that Catalysts are
The response was that they are covered subject to not having exceeded their service life, although I did purposely source a model that was not fitted with one
I guess that begs the question, how long is the service life???
https://www.krosfou.co.uk/blog/72_all-you-need-to-know-about-the-gpf-the-particulate-filter-for-petrol-cars.html
Time to ask each vehicle manufacturer ...
For those with a vehicle fitted with a GPF ... does the Owners Manual mention anything applicable ?
Cyclemotor1958
PCGB Member
Hi
Recently worked at a local Porsche independent workshop in North Yorkshire for last 6.5 years.Working on unusual failures on Porsche vehicles.
Have info to help you with your GPF issue
Regards
David
07769 590119
Could do with your full chassis number to confirm diagnosis
Recently worked at a local Porsche independent workshop in North Yorkshire for last 6.5 years.Working on unusual failures on Porsche vehicles.
Have info to help you with your GPF issue
Regards
David
07769 590119
Could do with your full chassis number to confirm diagnosis
Cyclemotor1958
PCGB Member
Hi
Are you still struggling with Porsche on your GPF
Dave
Are you still struggling with Porsche on your GPF
Dave
Cyclemotor1958
PCGB Member
Hi Mark
Reference your exhaust problem, if you could send me your chassis number I could check for tsb on your 718.
These cars have had issues with oil seperators failing and putting engine oil into the exhaust.
Regards
Cyclemotor1958
Reference your exhaust problem, if you could send me your chassis number I could check for tsb on your 718.
These cars have had issues with oil seperators failing and putting engine oil into the exhaust.
Regards
Cyclemotor1958
I also have a 2019 Cayman 718 with 17000miles on the clock. I have the PADM light on the dash and have been told by my OPC that I need two drive train mounts at a cost of £2900. I have also gone down the route of trying to get a goodwill gesture from Porsche but to no avail. I am now hoping that my GPF unit doesn’t fail as this could total £8000, which Porsche would not contribute to on a 4 year old low mileage car. I love the car but would seriously consider not buying another because of the poor after sales help from Porsche.
I'm not sure you'd get a much different level of service from another manufacturer for failed parts out of warranty?
The GPF issue seems to potentially be a disputed area as to whether it's an exhaust part or a filter if you have a Porsche warranty, but the adaptive mounts are definitely covered under the optional extended warranty as discussed in the PADM thread.
The GPF issue seems to potentially be a disputed area as to whether it's an exhaust part or a filter if you have a Porsche warranty, but the adaptive mounts are definitely covered under the optional extended warranty as discussed in the PADM thread.
Continuing this discussion, a concern here is that Porsche simply replace the blocked GPF with a new one. Yet the GPF does not block itself. Two potential causes for this are:
1. Something else has failed leading to a higher level of contaminents being caught up in the filter. That 'something else' may be a faulty AOS, as above, which would be covered under warranty.
2. Failure of the re-gen cycle to do its job. Could it be possible that this could be disabled, like the auto stop/start, in low voltage situations?
The investigation continues....
1. Something else has failed leading to a higher level of contaminents being caught up in the filter. That 'something else' may be a faulty AOS, as above, which would be covered under warranty.
2. Failure of the re-gen cycle to do its job. Could it be possible that this could be disabled, like the auto stop/start, in low voltage situations?
The investigation continues....
Cyclemotor1958
PCGB Member
Hi John CRS
Further to my investigation into the GPF issues on the Cayman 718 2.0 2019 vehicles.
After speaking to 4 owners with these cars the one common theme was they did not see a particulate warning light on the dashboard before the engine light came on.
This warning light should come on, to alert the driver to carry out the regeneration process documented in the drivers manual.
If anyone else is having issues with their GPF filters, please contact me.
Regards
Cyclemotor 1958
Further to my investigation into the GPF issues on the Cayman 718 2.0 2019 vehicles.
After speaking to 4 owners with these cars the one common theme was they did not see a particulate warning light on the dashboard before the engine light came on.
This warning light should come on, to alert the driver to carry out the regeneration process documented in the drivers manual.
If anyone else is having issues with their GPF filters, please contact me.
Regards
Cyclemotor 1958
Cyclemotor1958
PCGB Member
Hi its me again,
Following on from my last post, a bit more background information on oil separator's and there function.
During the last six years running a Porsche Independent Workshop I monitored the AOS failures on all the vehicles that came into the workshop, the usual clouds of white smoke from the tail pipes.
The first time I came across a failed separator, I cut it open and found the diaphragm had failed, which caused an increase in negative vacuum.
After speaking to other Porsche independents in our area it was clear that a tool to measure these separators, was not available even at our local Porsche dealer.
After further research I found Tony Callas at Rennsport in America, who kindly sent me some brilliant information of a vacuum tool to do the job and the relevant testing information to check all the separators on the cars that came into the workshop.
I purchased the tool and started checking the cars that came in, what I found over a period of time was the vacuum readings started to increase significantly from the 986/996/987/997 engines up to the gen2 to engines.
Reading as follows M96 & M97 crankcase vacuum -4.0 to 6.0 inches of water
MA1 Engines -14.0 to 16.0 inches of water
981 & 991 -14.0 to 16.0 inches of water
Shortly before I left my position, one of my contacts working in a Porsche independent workshop rang me for some advice.
A 2.0 2019 718 had been recovered into his workshop with oil in the cylinder bores, the oil separator diaphragm had failed, and the engine oil had been sucked into the cylinders.
I had seen many reports of this overseas usually happening after an oil and filter change.
Before I left my position I had the opportunity to measure a 718 2.0 and it measured 25.0 inches of water, which seemed very high to me.
As we know the development of the GDI engines as brought us great benefits, more power, better economy and the reduction of carbon dioxide emissions.
But its also brought us higher emissions of carcinogenic particulates (carbon / soot)
Research by TUV NORD found that GDI engines release about 1000 times more particulate matter than traditional petrol engines and 10 times more than a diesel engine with a DPF fitted.
If you check out the GDI information in the Car Mechanics magazine August 2019 issue you will be shocked.
So vehicle manufacturers are having to fit GPF filters to stop these particulate emissions.
On my first visit to the Porsche Club forum I came across an issue with a Cayman 718, 2019, 2.0 that had its GPF replaced, I contacted the owner and our journey began.
He reported to his local dealer that a yellow warning light came on saying, Engine control fault, consult dealer, driving permitted.
The car was booked in, and the service department came back to him with a diagnosis that required his GPF to be replaced at a considerable cost. During conversations with the service department he was told the GPF was contaminated, and blocked. He was also told that is wasn’t covered under his extended warranty.
He asked them what had caused the failure, and he still hasn’t had the answer and is currently waiting for a reply. A new GPF has been fitted.
Another Porsche Club member with a Cayman 718, 2019, 2.0 contacted me with the same issue, he was told his GPF was 100% blocked and has yet to be replaced.
I sent out my vacuum tester to both my contacts and both cars have showed a reading of 30 inches of water, the highest I have ever seen.
These readings are 5 times greater than the reading we have on the 997/997 cars, suggesting that the oil separators on these cars are having to run with a higher negative vacuum to remove the blow by pollutants from the engine sump, only to be returned back through the induction system and back out of the exhaust.
The Cayman 718 had its first oil/air separator part no 9A2 107 04201 replaced on the 6th November 2018, and was then replaced by part no OPC 115 099. It was changed again on the 1st July 2020 part no OPC 115 099A with a note on the parts system, not to use the separate diaphragm part number 9A2 107 904 00. Is it possible that these oil/air separators have been modified along the way?
GPF Filters can only hold a small amount of soot and ash, the ash normally burns the soot away at exhaust temperatures between 400 to 700 degrees, could it be that engine oil droplets in the oil/air separator fumes are contaminating the ash in the GPF, which would stop the ash from doing its job, like putting the fire out.
Its well known that the wrong type of engine oil used in these vehicles can damage the GPF.
Bearing in mind that the Porsche technicians I have spoken to recently regarding the testing of oil/air separators have confirmed they had no tool, that measures vacuum.
I recently had a phone call from another Porsche Independent who had a Cayman 718, 2.0, 2019 in his workshop with a blocked GPF, he attempted to carry out a regeneration, and his system said no, due to the battery only having 80% of charge. The battery was charged over night and it still wouldn’t regenerate, they fitted a new battery and finally it did the regeneration.
If a low battery charge can stop a manual regeneration, could it also prevent a passive regeneration, how many times have we come across the stop start function not working due to low battery voltage.
Things we should do now.
1. We need to confirm that the early warning particulate light comes on the dash, when the filter is getting full. This would allow the customer to drive the car in a manor to regenerate the exhaust GPF, as the drivers manual says.
2. Carry out vacuum tests on the AOS and confirm that the separator is doing its job. Could it be that over time the AOS vacuum increases, and this would pull more oil droplets into the the cylinders and on into the exhaust. Remember a 996 and 997 runs on a negative vacuum of only -4.0 to 6.0 inches of water.
Its common knowledge that engine oil burnt, forms soot and all GDI engines produce to much soot already.
This could be the reason why these cars take a while to fault, and also checking with Porsche parts, a new separator part no OPC 115 099A came out on the 1st July 2020.
Have we had any reports of this issue on 2020 registered Caymans, and what about Boxster 718.
I must say I have researched other vehicle manufactures with GPF filters fitted, and they are having similar problems, the GDI engine type is proving difficult to clean up.
We need Porsche Technical to quickly sort out this problem with these cars, after all the Dealers must be embarrassed when telling a Cayman 718 2019 customer, its his driving style that's causing this issue. And no, the extended warranty will not cover the repair as the GPF is classed as a consumable filter.
Please feel free to contact me with any information that might help us fix this problem.
Regards
Cyclemotor 1958
Following on from my last post, a bit more background information on oil separator's and there function.
During the last six years running a Porsche Independent Workshop I monitored the AOS failures on all the vehicles that came into the workshop, the usual clouds of white smoke from the tail pipes.
The first time I came across a failed separator, I cut it open and found the diaphragm had failed, which caused an increase in negative vacuum.
After speaking to other Porsche independents in our area it was clear that a tool to measure these separators, was not available even at our local Porsche dealer.
After further research I found Tony Callas at Rennsport in America, who kindly sent me some brilliant information of a vacuum tool to do the job and the relevant testing information to check all the separators on the cars that came into the workshop.
I purchased the tool and started checking the cars that came in, what I found over a period of time was the vacuum readings started to increase significantly from the 986/996/987/997 engines up to the gen2 to engines.
Reading as follows M96 & M97 crankcase vacuum -4.0 to 6.0 inches of water
MA1 Engines -14.0 to 16.0 inches of water
981 & 991 -14.0 to 16.0 inches of water
Shortly before I left my position, one of my contacts working in a Porsche independent workshop rang me for some advice.
A 2.0 2019 718 had been recovered into his workshop with oil in the cylinder bores, the oil separator diaphragm had failed, and the engine oil had been sucked into the cylinders.
I had seen many reports of this overseas usually happening after an oil and filter change.
Before I left my position I had the opportunity to measure a 718 2.0 and it measured 25.0 inches of water, which seemed very high to me.
As we know the development of the GDI engines as brought us great benefits, more power, better economy and the reduction of carbon dioxide emissions.
But its also brought us higher emissions of carcinogenic particulates (carbon / soot)
Research by TUV NORD found that GDI engines release about 1000 times more particulate matter than traditional petrol engines and 10 times more than a diesel engine with a DPF fitted.
If you check out the GDI information in the Car Mechanics magazine August 2019 issue you will be shocked.
So vehicle manufacturers are having to fit GPF filters to stop these particulate emissions.
On my first visit to the Porsche Club forum I came across an issue with a Cayman 718, 2019, 2.0 that had its GPF replaced, I contacted the owner and our journey began.
He reported to his local dealer that a yellow warning light came on saying, Engine control fault, consult dealer, driving permitted.
The car was booked in, and the service department came back to him with a diagnosis that required his GPF to be replaced at a considerable cost. During conversations with the service department he was told the GPF was contaminated, and blocked. He was also told that is wasn’t covered under his extended warranty.
He asked them what had caused the failure, and he still hasn’t had the answer and is currently waiting for a reply. A new GPF has been fitted.
Another Porsche Club member with a Cayman 718, 2019, 2.0 contacted me with the same issue, he was told his GPF was 100% blocked and has yet to be replaced.
I sent out my vacuum tester to both my contacts and both cars have showed a reading of 30 inches of water, the highest I have ever seen.
These readings are 5 times greater than the reading we have on the 997/997 cars, suggesting that the oil separators on these cars are having to run with a higher negative vacuum to remove the blow by pollutants from the engine sump, only to be returned back through the induction system and back out of the exhaust.
The Cayman 718 had its first oil/air separator part no 9A2 107 04201 replaced on the 6th November 2018, and was then replaced by part no OPC 115 099. It was changed again on the 1st July 2020 part no OPC 115 099A with a note on the parts system, not to use the separate diaphragm part number 9A2 107 904 00. Is it possible that these oil/air separators have been modified along the way?
GPF Filters can only hold a small amount of soot and ash, the ash normally burns the soot away at exhaust temperatures between 400 to 700 degrees, could it be that engine oil droplets in the oil/air separator fumes are contaminating the ash in the GPF, which would stop the ash from doing its job, like putting the fire out.
Its well known that the wrong type of engine oil used in these vehicles can damage the GPF.
Bearing in mind that the Porsche technicians I have spoken to recently regarding the testing of oil/air separators have confirmed they had no tool, that measures vacuum.
I recently had a phone call from another Porsche Independent who had a Cayman 718, 2.0, 2019 in his workshop with a blocked GPF, he attempted to carry out a regeneration, and his system said no, due to the battery only having 80% of charge. The battery was charged over night and it still wouldn’t regenerate, they fitted a new battery and finally it did the regeneration.
If a low battery charge can stop a manual regeneration, could it also prevent a passive regeneration, how many times have we come across the stop start function not working due to low battery voltage.
Things we should do now.
1. We need to confirm that the early warning particulate light comes on the dash, when the filter is getting full. This would allow the customer to drive the car in a manor to regenerate the exhaust GPF, as the drivers manual says.
2. Carry out vacuum tests on the AOS and confirm that the separator is doing its job. Could it be that over time the AOS vacuum increases, and this would pull more oil droplets into the the cylinders and on into the exhaust. Remember a 996 and 997 runs on a negative vacuum of only -4.0 to 6.0 inches of water.
Its common knowledge that engine oil burnt, forms soot and all GDI engines produce to much soot already.
This could be the reason why these cars take a while to fault, and also checking with Porsche parts, a new separator part no OPC 115 099A came out on the 1st July 2020.
Have we had any reports of this issue on 2020 registered Caymans, and what about Boxster 718.
I must say I have researched other vehicle manufactures with GPF filters fitted, and they are having similar problems, the GDI engine type is proving difficult to clean up.
We need Porsche Technical to quickly sort out this problem with these cars, after all the Dealers must be embarrassed when telling a Cayman 718 2019 customer, its his driving style that's causing this issue. And no, the extended warranty will not cover the repair as the GPF is classed as a consumable filter.
Please feel free to contact me with any information that might help us fix this problem.
Regards
Cyclemotor 1958
Cyclemotor1958
PCGB Member
Thank you
Just trying to help
Just trying to help
Excellent information and possible reasons these GPFs are failing. I have had my filter changed and trying to get Porsche to explain or even reply as to why it has failed has proved to be very difficult and frustrating. This is my fourth Porsche and I am slowly loosing faith in the brand, this is supposed to be a prestige brand but they seem to have very little regard for customer service. I just want to know if it is likely to happen again (at a cost of 7K) and why it is not covered under the warranty, we need answers from Porsche Technical!!
A very illuminating and well documented summary of your experience. Many thanks for posting. Much appreciated.
max.warren-watson
New member
Morning David, great write up on the issues with these models.
I reached out to David in a last ditch attempt to solve the above problem to prevent my step dad paying £7000 for a new exhaust. The car was reading a engine fault code, it was taken to Porsche who diagnosed the issue to having a 100% ash load through the GPF, the car was only 4 years old and around 40k miles on the clock seems impossible.
It had only been serviced from Porsche from new so no issues with incorrect oil etc.
David did go above and beyond to help, he passed over some information on how to sort the issue. We got the car booked into a Porsche Specialist, who was also aware of the problem and had sorted out a few previously. We had already tried to clean the GPF ourselves so when the Specialist put a camera in to check they said it was a clean as it could be. A regen process was carried out a few times and a few hours later the car was reading 0% load and free from any fault codes and all for under £300!
I cant thank David enough for the knowledge and saving he has made for my family!! Why and how in this day and age Porsche aren't able to realise this issue for themselves and create some rectification ill never know.
I reached out to David in a last ditch attempt to solve the above problem to prevent my step dad paying £7000 for a new exhaust. The car was reading a engine fault code, it was taken to Porsche who diagnosed the issue to having a 100% ash load through the GPF, the car was only 4 years old and around 40k miles on the clock seems impossible.
It had only been serviced from Porsche from new so no issues with incorrect oil etc.
David did go above and beyond to help, he passed over some information on how to sort the issue. We got the car booked into a Porsche Specialist, who was also aware of the problem and had sorted out a few previously. We had already tried to clean the GPF ourselves so when the Specialist put a camera in to check they said it was a clean as it could be. A regen process was carried out a few times and a few hours later the car was reading 0% load and free from any fault codes and all for under £300!
I cant thank David enough for the knowledge and saving he has made for my family!! Why and how in this day and age Porsche aren't able to realise this issue for themselves and create some rectification ill never know.
Cyclemotor1958
PCGB Member
Thanks Max for your kind words, only to pleased to have helped.
Have a good Christmas
Have a good Christmas
Hi David,
Although I was familiar with your excellent work on this subject through conversations with our Register Secretary John Dickinson, many thanks for posting the information here and thanks also to Max for filling us in on his real-time problem. Good to hear of a positive outcome.
I reached out to contacts at my three local Porsche Centres - Cambridge, Hatfield and Silverstone - asking if they’ve had any 718s GPF failures. Hatfield and Silverstone didn’t respond but Cambridge said that they’d had one failure which was attributed to the use of the incorrect oil. My contact there also confirmed that they don’t have a manometer to measure crankcase vacuum, which means that presumably the Porsche dealers can’t diagnose an AOF filter failure other than observing excessive smoke from the exhaust?
You have to wonder how many owners of F-4 turbo 718 Caymans and Boxsters - both in and outside of the Club - have fallen foul of this problem and been faced with an eye-watering bill to replace the GPF, potentially unnecessarily? It sounds as though your experience to date has been with the F-4 turbo engine cars and I’m wondering if the same could happen with the naturally aspirated 4.0L F-6 cars and if it’s also happening on the 991/992 F-6 turbo cars? Repairs potentially could be even more expensive if these engines have two GPFs rather than the single unit on the F-4 engine cars.
Please keep us updated.
Jeff
Although I was familiar with your excellent work on this subject through conversations with our Register Secretary John Dickinson, many thanks for posting the information here and thanks also to Max for filling us in on his real-time problem. Good to hear of a positive outcome.
I reached out to contacts at my three local Porsche Centres - Cambridge, Hatfield and Silverstone - asking if they’ve had any 718s GPF failures. Hatfield and Silverstone didn’t respond but Cambridge said that they’d had one failure which was attributed to the use of the incorrect oil. My contact there also confirmed that they don’t have a manometer to measure crankcase vacuum, which means that presumably the Porsche dealers can’t diagnose an AOF filter failure other than observing excessive smoke from the exhaust?
You have to wonder how many owners of F-4 turbo 718 Caymans and Boxsters - both in and outside of the Club - have fallen foul of this problem and been faced with an eye-watering bill to replace the GPF, potentially unnecessarily? It sounds as though your experience to date has been with the F-4 turbo engine cars and I’m wondering if the same could happen with the naturally aspirated 4.0L F-6 cars and if it’s also happening on the 991/992 F-6 turbo cars? Repairs potentially could be even more expensive if these engines have two GPFs rather than the single unit on the F-4 engine cars.
Please keep us updated.
Jeff
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