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Big Brake Caliper Question

944 man

Active member
Im looking to upgade the brakes on my car, a 1988 Turbo. Im looking at Cayenne discs and adapters to fit radially mounted capilers. The mounts are intended for use with 928S4 and Big Black calipers, but Id like to use later calipers in their place.

My question is, will later monoblock calipers fit using this adapter? Its frustrating because I used to know exactly which fitted what and how, but I cant remember and my internet searching hasnt brought up anything beyond typical American prattle on the usual sites... :sadface:

New calipers are a better buy than used, but used monoblocks could be the smart buy, if theyll fit... Any help or advice appreciated.
 
Unfortunately you could not use the adapters you have. A friend of mine's company fabricates caliper adapters both 330mm and 350mm Cayenne disks. Contact me if you want some furter information.
I have writen a lot of these Monoblock conversion during the years on Rennlist. We did first 6-pot installations about 6-7 years ago. We installed Monoblocks also to rear axle.
 
Very interested in further information Oli, please. In the mean time I will try to find your posts on RennList.

Do you have any experience of the copy Big Black / Big Reds that Design 911 sell in this country? Im not sure who makes them or what their real name is, but D911 use the name 'Design Tek'. This is an eBay link where they sell them a little cheaper (inc VAT price rather than + VAT):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Calipers-BIG-REDS-FRONT-Porsche-964-993-SET-OF-2-Audi-VW-BMW?item=120807301104&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9081070145150297357


Simon
 
Yes that's my friend's company. He have also a complete adapter kits available both front & rear using various different rotors. He have CNC programs saved, so he can make you adapters what ever disks you would like to use. You can contact Antti at info@9xx-parts.com Give him my regards.

What comes to those Design Tek calipers, they are the same as Dansk sells. Many other company sells them as well. Even i have sold them.... It's a cheap chinese copy from a real thing. Piston size is the same as real ones have. Also glide plates are similar. Honestly i cannot tell how do they work on a real world, just don't have experienece. Here's a picture i took last week. We test fitted one "clone red" under friends 968 with a 964 turbo disk. We just wanted to see how they fit under original 17" 968 CUP I wheel. Now i am restoring original Big Reds for a friend of mine......

2c9731c1.jpg


Some pictures i took last winter

ca59bd6c.jpg

fc18100e.jpg

b37303df.jpg
 
Thanks Olli. Im looking at using 928S4 discs, because theyre light (8kg vs. 12kg). Im not sure whether theyll be in exactly the right place though, or maybe 5mm out.

Im currently reading a post of yours on a Swedish 944 forum about brakes. [:D]


Simon
 
Beside of Finnish, UK, USA & Swedish Porsche forums, you can also read my stories on German, Dutch, Danish ,Hungarian, Italian and Estonian forums.... I mostly hang on Rennlist & this forum.
 
Always impressed by your refurb pics Oli...

I have to sort caliper plate lift in the near future. I also have the old-style piston seals (not the rubber ones) so hopefully I can get away without replacing these. I see you replace the caliper plates and the cross-shaped clip that holds the pads in. Can you recommend a good source for these bits?


 
All of those pictures i put in this thread are taken of chinese clone Brembos, so i have not done nothing to them. I can put later today some pictures of my recent Big Red restoration, will get them ready to day. Also starting another Big Red restoration for a friend of mine. His 968 was the one we tested those "clone reds" , put he wanted to have a real stuff. His calipers will go to the powder coater's place today.
 
Very likely that you need to switch to different spindles to mount the Monoblocks Simon. As Olli has discussed here and many times before and I've also done a fair bit of research and development to make it happen also...but alas...unless you have widebody it won't work. Much easier to just change spindles and be done with it. This is the course I will most probably be following.
 
Can you expand on that please Pat? Are you saying that Id need M030 hubs to start with in order to line calipers and discs up correctly?
 
Ive just realised that Big Reds, and Fake Reds are designed to lead the wheel, whereas 944 calipers trail the wheel, so the bleb dipples will be in the wrong place.

Can you swap them with the crossover pipe?
 
This is true of the big reds, but not the blacks, I would have thought that considering the cost of swapping the hubs, etc then just going for the big blacks/reds will work out better value?


Edd
 
Yes, I agree that the most cost effective solution would be 928S4 calipers and an adapter using 928S4 discs. The trouble though, is that the these calipers along with BBs and BRs are a two piece design and Monoblocks are definitely better, and cheaper too.

I meant bleed nipples, btw...
 
Simon, bleed nipples just swap round. Mediums blacks are the same as some 993 calipers. I managed to get hold of a set, the height was 5 mm taller (which in some cases may be better) but 10 minutes on a mill soon had them back to the same height.
Alasdair
 
ORIGINAL: 944 man

Ive just realised that Big Reds, and Fake Reds are designed to lead the wheel, whereas 944 calipers trail the wheel, so the bleb dipples will be in the wrong place.

Can you swap them with the crossover pipe?
You just flip the Reds upside down, the Blacks are oriented the same as ours. Don't worry about the Bleb Dipples either. There is an Antidote for this condition. [:D]

If you have the Mo30 you can bolt the Big R/Bs straight on Simon. If you want to move to 6 piston monoblocks then there is very little room to make a proper adapter. You will have to switch to Non Mo30 or S2/968 spindles and then use the adapters available from Olli's friend Anti. Remember that you will be moving up to at least a 350mm rotor and this will be very snug under a 17" wheel.
Pretty sure I saw a thread on Pelican where a guy called Mark made up an adapter to run on a smaller 330mm rotor...I think...have to dig that up again. Actually Olli can give you all the fitting details re what hardware you need. I know his friend Pete ran the 6 pot Big Yellows and I have a feeling these were not on 350mm rotors so perhaps it's not a problem.

I think the choice or perhaps reason of going up to larger brakes is not as simple as it seems. While there is the clear Bling factor which in itself is a fine enough reason. Nothing wrong with putting these on just because you prefer the looks. I think you have to weigh up the extra unsprung mass, the weight of the car, the power of the car and the use of the car. I've always thought if it was deemed necessary by the factory to put these on GT3s with less power/tq than some of us then why not our cars? Perhaps a simplistic view granted. I went to Big Reds a few years ago. Until I got them to work properly with all the associated hardware (s/s lines, ducting, race fluid, race pads, slotted rotors) I am not sure how much better they were than a well setup Medium Black stock scenario. However I also got faster in the car so it's difficult to be objective. I then had my pedal get soft after a few laps on new slicks back in 2010. With the extra cornering speed and deeper braking, the pedal started going to the floor. You may have seen the video clip where I'm having a play with a modified Evo and he eventually spins in front of me. This was probably fortuitous as I might have driven into the back of him had he not spun! So once my car went in for it's rebuild into a proper track car I decided that I would need more braking that I currently had. So slowly I built up an inventory of Front Cup Calipers, hats, rotors and had Dave McGrath of CEP in the US try quite a few times to work an adapter to fit with my Mo30 spindles. The last time worked..except it had the wheel sitting out too far due to less clearance between caliper and inside of wheel centre. At this stage the project has slowed to a stop and I'm inclined to just get a set of S2 or the like spindles and go from there. Oh and one more thing, I'm not entirely sure if you shouldn't change the master cylinder to allow for the larger piston area of the 6 pots. This has also brought more conjecture over the years. Some suggest shifting to a larger m/c from a 1990's BMW 7 Series but I don't think there is any conclusive proof of this having happened. I followed it up a bit and contacted the m/c manufacturer but they were unwilling to support or help as it could become a legal issue had I crashed due to brake failure. I also remember someone else working on this concept. Perhaps on Rennlist. It isn't an issue for me now as I've removed all the OEM brake system. Just to add to that, for the few laps that I did in my car before the crash, the brakes felt very good. Never put them under too much stress, but the modulation without the booster was very nice and better than expected.
 

ORIGINAL: sulzeruk

Simon, bleed nipples just swap round. Mediums blacks are the same as some 993 calipers. I managed to get hold of a set, the height was 5 mm taller (which in some cases may be better) but 10 minutes on a mill soon had them back to the same height.
Alasdair
Alisdair, I'd say 99% sure that what we term Medium blacks weren't on the 993. Perhaps the rears? Pretty sure that the 993 had Big Reds or similar sized front calipers. The offset of their rotor hat is different to ours though.
 

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