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718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.!

OK, the standard exhaust is back on my car now. Some findings for those who are interested:

[ul][*]I'd forgotten how beefy the stock exhaust already is! Between 2k-3k revs it's quite a full sound and I can see why the 9m exhaust was slightly problematic in this area. It just amplified the bassy tone that was already there.[*]The stock exhaust is a lot quieter between 1k-2k revs as a result of the extra silencing, which also helps with the 2k-3k boom/drone.[*]The car's not quite got that immediacy and snap to the throttle response that it had and it seems just a touch bunged up, but the flywheel is still doing an awesome job so it still feels better than completely standard to me.[*]On the subject of the flywheel, you can now hear it spinning and doing its thing more due to the quieter exhaust. Given the other noises going on I'm not sure it would be a problem for most people, but in say a GTS 4.0 that's more refined it might stand out. On my car with cage pings, brake squeaks, stones in the wheel arches etc it's just part and parcel of the soundtrack.[/ul]My exhaust is going off to the fabricators next Tuesday where j-pipes will be added to each side in parallel with the silencers which should hopefully bring the drone down a touch in the <3k range. I'm also having slightly larger carbon fibre tips fitted (up to 4.5" diameter from 4") to fill the diffuser apertures better. Hopefully I'll be back at 9m again in 3-4 weeks for refitting.

I'll report back on how v2 sounds...

 
Cheers both. I'll be at a couple of PCGB trackdays later this year and a few race meetings e.g. BTCC, GT championship etc so you may see me knocking about.

Ninemeister stick my car up on their Instagram account from time to time too: [link]https://www.instagram.com/ninemeister_porsche/[/url]

 
Now you know why the stock rear box is so big and heavy Dave! The size and weight are there for a reason … more volume, internal baffling and sound absorption.

Unsurprisingly the effects of the LWF are more noticeable now that the cabin is a bit quieter. A bit more transmission noise is inevitable, especially since I seem to recall you saying that 9M have used the stock DMF clutch which won’t have the usual torsional cushioning effect of clutches used with solid flywheels.

It’s going to be interesting to hear your impressions when the 9M’s version 2 is fitted.

Jeff

 
I believe there is some sort of cushioning in place as standard Jeff (a vibration damper pulley on the crank?) and the standard clutch is a Sachs sports version so it's a pretty good setup I think. It's something I wouldn't swap back from anyhow!

 
Look forward to seeing what you think about v2?

do you think stock is quieter because you dont have the valve controller ?

im wondering if anyone who has this option has then gone to a new silencer..

been debating this for a few weeks.. was literally about to pull the trigger on a lichfield but, weather, my back, and coronvirus lockdowns put pay to the idea of driving 250 miles to get one.

but did get the Cargraphic controller (thanks to the video from Janko Lind..and another great video from Manny? (is that you here from Heel'n'toe?) ..which has satisfied my urges pretty well for now.. but still quite keen to do something exhaust oriented.. however I really want to hear one live. not sure if anyone in the SE has bought a licho exhaust yet,,and there are no you tube videos other than their own so far.

 
Tiff, my friend helps with the videos. It's his channel.

Was gonna go for Cargraphic centre pipes, but at nearly £4K fitted, thought money could be better spent.

TBH, the valve controller is loud enough for me.

 
tifqureshi said:
Look forward to seeing what you think about v2?

do you think stock is quieter because you dont have the valve controller ?

im wondering if anyone who has this option has then gone to a new silencer..
Click to expand...

I should hear this week when I'm likely to get the v2 exhaust back for fitting. It'll probably be in 2-3 weeks time I would guess. The exhaust is currently at the fabricators but they're really busy at the moment, so it's a case of waiting for my place in the queue [:)]

Stock will definitely be quieter because I don't have a valve controller for sure, but it's also quieter at higher revs due to the large amount of silencing in the standard system which gases also pass through when the valves are open. Not as much of a difference as at lower revs when the valves are shut though, obviously.

There are lots of options and combinations of options out there to suit whatever sound level, power increase and engine feeling you're after.

 
OK, so this is interesting. I've been out in my car today visiting my Mum and it seems my PSE isn't working. No difference whatsoever at tickover with the button pressed or not, and I think I could hear the vacuum "whoosh" a few times at tickover when I pressed the button. So it seems the pipes are leaking/not sealing correctly. I'll give 9m a shout on Monday and see if they can take a look if I bob over one morning.

What's interesting is that I've essentially now got the valve controller solution - stock exhaust with valves always open. You can hear some drone between 2k and 3k revs so that to me points to the OPF filters as the source of the issue. Porsche have gotten around that and the overall noise limit by having heavy silencing and closing the valves until 4k revs, which makes sense given the stories of aftermarket silencers droning. It seems to confirm my theory that there's no magic bullet of a silencer swap to make the 4.0 sound louder and 'better' - there are compromises to be made. It sounds good though - I can see why you like it, MannyLon!

In other news, several folk on PH are claiming that their OPCs are only getting 3 more GT4s this year then production will end. The UK had ~300 cars at the end of last year so we'll probably end up with ~450 UK cars, of which ~150 PDK so ~300 manual. This compares to ~600 981 GT4s, all manual of course.

Can't be long until the GT4RS arrives then!

 
Some interest observations there Dave. Maybe the valve controller option could be the way to go?

On the subject of 718 GT4 supply I’ve no idea what the situation is going to be but I’ve always taken any uttering from Dealership sales forces with a pinch of salt. Anyway, as we’ve discussed at length on here, no-one seems to have any idea where 718 production is heading and Porsche still need to shift a lot of 4.0L engines to recoup their significant development and production costs. Unless of course they’re planning to drop the F-4 turbo availability other than for markets where it attracts a tax advantage, but that would open a can of worms if they want to maintain GTS exclusivity.

Plus, whatever happened to AP’s claim at release that everyone who wants a 718 GT4 will have the opportunity to get one, although I wouldn’t be surprised if Porsche revert to type for the GT cars and restrict production artificially?

Jeff

 
Twinfan said:
OK, so this is interesting. I've been out in my car today visiting my Mum and it seems my PSE isn't working. No difference whatsoever at tickover with the button pressed or not, and I think I could hear the vacuum "whoosh" a few times at tickover when I pressed the button. So it seems the pipes are leaking/not sealing correctly. I'll give 9m a shout on Monday and see if they can take a look if I bob over one morning.

What's interesting is that I've essentially now got the valve controller solution - stock exhaust with valves always open. You can hear some drone between 2k and 3k revs so that to me points to the OPF filters as the source of the issue. Porsche have gotten around that and the overall noise limit by having heavy silencing and closing the valves until 4k revs, which makes sense given the stories of aftermarket silencers droning. It seems to confirm my theory that there's no magic bullet of a silencer swap to make the 4.0 sound louder and 'better' - there are compromises to be made. It sounds good though - I can see why you like it, MannyLon!

In other news, several folk on PH are claiming that their OPCs are only getting 3 more GT4s this year then production will end. The UK had ~300 cars at the end of last year so we'll probably end up with ~450 UK cars, of which ~150 PDK so ~300 manual. This compares to ~600 981 GT4s, all manual of course.

Can't be long until the GT4RS arrives then!
Click to expand...

Did you hear back on the upgraded exhaust from 9m?

 
I've not heard anything yet, MannyLon, but I'll be speaking to Pete about it tomorrow. Their fabricator has been very busy working on 9m intercoolers for various models so I've been in the queue awaiting my turn [:D]

The valve controller alone wouldn't go far enough for me, Jeff. It gives a bit more volume at lower revs but I much preferred my 9m exhaust which made the car sound and feel more angry and alive. I'm itching to get it back!

As for the 718 GT4 supply comments, they come from various sources and therefore various OPCs. Like you I'm wary of OPC claims, but as I've said it could tie in with the GT4RS coming along later this year so there would be no GT model overlap, as is the Porsche way (in general, there are a few exceptions sometimes). I've always assumed it would be a 2 year production run followed by the RS, I think the global pandemic has hit supply making numbers lower than Porsche anticipated. I'm sure they would have done at least 650 cars for the UK if they could have.

The GTS 4.0, Boxster 25th and GT4RS all feel like run-out models to me. There's lots of stock of GTS 4.0s in the OPC network and a decent number of cars delivered, so across models (incl. the GT4RS which I expect to have the same engine with some tweaks) they will have produced plenty of 4.0 engines worldwide. There must be a 718 range facelift due soon too but no mules have been reported on as yet which is very, very odd.

The next few months will be interesting for all kinds of reasons!

 
Understood re the valve controller Dave. As an experiment are you planning to try driving the car with the updated 9M exhaust and the valves stuck open?

If as seems likely the introduction of the GT4 RS coincides with the MY2022 release it’s quite possible that will signal the end of 718 GT4 production, especially if we see an updated 718.2 run-out spec which apart from minor external changes could see the introduction of an electronic display binnacle with perhaps a special track setting for the RS with a big central tacho flanked by oil pressure and temperature and coolant temperature gauges, plus TPMS.

It’s certainly very puzzling that we’ve still not seen or heard anything to indicate what’s coming next, and I can’t believe that a decision still has to be made on the future of the Boxster and Cayman. It would be relatively straightforward to disguise MHEV and/or PHEV powertrains in the current 718 body for development purposes but Porsche will have to update the bodies for the next generation cars and most probably include a full BEV in the mix as well for an 8-10 year cycle.

Jeff

 
Twinfan said:
As for the 718 GT4 supply comments, they come from various sources and therefore various OPCs. Like you I'm wary of OPC claims, but as I've said it could tie in with the GT4RS coming along later this year so there would be no GT model overlap, as is the Porsche way (in general, there are a few exceptions sometimes). I've always assumed it would be a 2 year production run followed by the RS, I think the global pandemic has hit supply making numbers lower than Porsche anticipated. I'm sure they would have done at least 650 cars for the UK if they could have.

The GTS 4.0, Boxster 25th and GT4RS all feel like run-out models to me. There's lots of stock of GTS 4.0s in the OPC network and a decent number of cars delivered, so across models (incl. the GT4RS which I expect to have the same engine with some tweaks) they will have produced plenty of 4.0 engines worldwide. There must be a 718 range facelift due soon too but no mules have been reported on as yet which is very, very odd.

The next few months will be interesting for all kinds of reasons!
Click to expand...

Dave / Jeff

While I understand you are wary of OPC claims, one of the comments mentioned from Pistonheads came from me and I got it last week when talking to my DP about GT3's (confirmed no chance ) and he said they were only getting 3 more this year.

One thought on usage of the 4.0 engine, it would work well in the 992 T and would be a great drivers car. manual only. It would make a great car for those who cannot get a GT3. Way too much time in lock down [;)]

 
Motorhead said:
Understood re the valve controller Dave. As an experiment are you planning to try driving the car with the updated 9M exhaust and the valves stuck open?
Click to expand...

Not in the plan Jeff, no. The valves open at 4k revs if the PSE button is pressed (5k if not) so all it would do is enhance the drone between 2k-3k, which the v2 exhaust is aiming to reduce. As it was it was a bit too much previously, assuming my PSE was working then which I think it was as you could hear the difference between 4-5k revs with the button pressed or not.

geoff lane said:
Dave / Jeff

While I understand you are wary of OPC claims, one of the comments mentioned from Pistonheads came from me and I got it last week when talking to my DP about GT3's (confirmed no chance ) and he said they were only getting 3 more this year.

One thought on usage of the 4.0 engine, it would work well in the 992 T and would be a great drivers car. manual only. It would make a great car for those who cannot get a GT3. Way too much time in lock down [;)]
Click to expand...

Cheers Geoff. Knowing the info came from a DP is good to know. I've no reason to doubt them given the other supportive reasons I mentioned previously.

Re. the 992T I think it's been publically said that the 4.0 wouldn't be fitted to a 911. Too slow compared to the turbo lumps and it would need a level of re-engineering to get it to fit. Not worth the investment if it's only going to be in one model of car. I also don't see the point - you could just buy a GTS 4.0 if that's what you're after. It can be kitted out with bucket seats and S-PASM etc and made as sporty as you like!

 
That makes sense Dave. Hope you’re able to get the modded exhaust back on soonest.

And I concur with your comment that Porsche have definitely ruled out using the naturally aspirated F-6 4.0L in the 992, which is committed to turbo power. In spite of the low production numbers you have to question how long the Porsche GT cars can remain turbo-free if ICE usage is to continue, although synthetic fuel developments look promising, but probably that’s best left to a new thread.

Jeff

 
Motorhead said:
That makes sense Dave. Hope you’re able to get the modded exhaust back on soonest.

And I concur with your comment that Porsche have definitely ruled out using the naturally aspirated F-6 4.0L in the 992, which is committed to turbo power. In spite of the low production numbers you have to question how long the Porsche GT cars can remain turbo-free if ICE usage is to continue, although synthetic fuel developments look promising, but probably that’s best left to a new thread.

Jeff
Click to expand...

keen to hear about V2.

happy with the valve controller as a first step but coming from a 981 I need that bit more drama to be totally happy.

Seem to be quite a few options but there are precious few sound clips and videos .. really want to hear one in the flesh before buying.

would be interesting to know if anyone else has any of the below and can record some clips ...

these are the exhausts I'm considering ..

1) JCR

2) Lichfield

3) Ninemeister

4) IWS

5) Cargraphic

 
Atif,

I think your comment ‘in the flesh’ is critical if you want to get a true impression of the sound. A sound-bite recorded on a phone is a totally inadequate representation of the sound quality, and ideally you need to drive or be driven in the car under different conditions - idle, WOT and different constant speeds - to appreciate fully what you’re getting.

Jeff

 
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