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400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo?

Back on topic. Seeking to compare a modified 944t to a much newer 997tt was aiming too high. Power aside, there's too many years of development between the 2 cars. The 964/993 turbo would perhaps be a more realistic target. And If the GT2 is the ultimate 993, a 944 stripped to the same weight, and with the same power, should theoretically have the legs on the 964/993 turbos in the dry?
 
blade7 said:
Back on topic. If the GT2 is the ultimate 993, a 944 stripped to the same weight, and with the same power, should theoretically have the legs on the 964/993 turbos in the dry?


Why do you think this? (964 & 993 GT2 v 400bhp 944 turbo)
Comparing Road or Race cars?
On Road tyres, Semi or full Racing Slicks?
Straight line drage strip times?
Or circuit use ?

There's far too many variables for such a question unless you be more specific,

A good Racer pedaller could lap a circuit quicker in a Race 2.0 924 with 150bhp than somebody in a 964/993 GT2 road car
who has no track experience and /or much talent.

Power figures mean very little when (for me) the ultimate test of a car's ability is to circulate and lap a circuit, this involves
everything (Cambers / corners / Straights / Undulations / changes of tarmac grades etc..etc..)

So many race car's with small power outs surprise many road car's with very large horsepower, one of friends is a Bike Nutter
who is obsessed with doing silly speeds on Superbikes road and trackday, this year he took his Audi S1 (Mapped to 450bhp) to Oulton park but couldn't understand why it was 20 seconds a lap slower than another friend's 1.6 XR2 Racecar times!


R





 

John Sims said:
I'm having real issues with this thread as I can't believe anyone in their right mind would actually get in the same car as BSB.


I did,



but I was driving :)


 
924Srr27l said:
blade7 said:
Back on topic. If the GT2 is the ultimate 993, a 944 stripped to the same weight, and with the same power, should theoretically have the legs on the 964/993 turbos in the dry?



Ultimately a 944 should have better weight distribution in most circumstances ( and maybe better aero?) so equally tyred, equal weight, equal power and torque with the same driver maybe the 944 would be faster! (unless the driver prefers a rear weight bias for his ultimate lap) or there is lots of acceleration out of very slow corners, or a standing start on a short lap etc etc.
 
944Turbo said:
924Srr27l said:

Ultimately a 944 should have better weight distribution in most circumstances ( and maybe better aero?) so equally tyred, equal weight, equal power and torque with the same driver maybe the 944 would be faster! (unless the driver prefers a rear weight bias for his ultimate lap) or there is lots of acceleration out of very slow corners, or a standing start on a short lap etc etc.


Yes, the Porsche Transaxles do have a very even 50/50 front / rear weight distribution but this is not a necessity to achieve
good handling and fast laptimes. There's plenty of ways an out of even axle balanced car can be modified to make it more equal and
then there are plenty of successful Race cars that are front or rear heavy EG a BTCC car and a F1 car they are not an even 50/50 weight.

Also don't forget the Porsche transaxles have VW Beetle rear suspension, which has not be used on s design since the 90's, because other designs offer better grip and handling.

So even though the Porsche transaxles have a very even weight distribution this does not mean they are superior for cornering
any faster than a 911 with a heavier rear bias weight.


Heavy front ends are great for Braking performance, heavy rear bias for traction, the Porsche transaxles have a bit of both but don't excel at either, they actually have issues "pivoting" into corners because of the low polar moment of inertia.

A transaxle chassis needs to be "tweaked" and made to Oversteer because they Understeer too much, so the Damper settings
and tyre pressures are increased to make the rear "slip" before the front so to summarise the perfect 50/50 balance which some people may think is great is not as good as it's made out to be.

Getting back to a 944 turbo with 400bhp being a faster car than a 911 turbo (964 / 993) this has too many variables to answer
and is so dependent on so many things.

If the rear Torsion bar / trailing arm design was so good, why did Porsche drop it on the 930 turbo?

R
 
John Sims said:
I'm having real issues with this thread as I can't believe anyone in their right mind would actually get in the same car as BSB.


I did [&o] He drove me down to Bournemouth to collect LIL when she was first ready.

Luckily he was in an old 2.5 that Jon had lent him whilst his 3.2 was being built, but it was still the most frightening couple of hours on a road I have ever experienced. [:'(]

 
BSB came to Le Mans with us in a brand new Mini Cooper s works, kicked it's hea d from the off, we lost him and there was a bet that he would not make it, he did but picked up a fine from the ftench plod for his excessive speed.[:D]
 
Had an interesting conversation with the Indy when i picked up my car after a service this morning. One of his regular customers has a 993TT and a 944 Turbo S. Both are toys and guess which one he has decided to sell as its the less rewarding car to drive?

He's selling the 993.
 
Paul 290T said:
Had an interesting conversation with the Indy when i picked up my car after a service this morning. One of his regular customers has a 993TT and a 944 Turbo S. Both are toys and guess which one he has decided to sell as its the less rewarding car to drive?

He's selling the 993.


I spoke to someone a few years ago that had owned a 993tt, he said it felt really heavy to drive. Obviously it depends on someones financial situation, but in mine I'd be wary of throwing something around on the road that was worth £100k.
 
Talking of 993TT's reminds me of an embarrassing occasion involving one of these cars..I can remember the exact date too 11th Sept 2001...or as the Americans say it, 9/11 I was working with an American film crew so needless to say, later that day work filming came to a halt. Anyway, back to the car...the studio was a converted warehouse with large shutter doors which were on the side of a one-way street in Perivale, during breaks we used to hang around outside these doors enjoying the catering. On this day there was a large roar heard coming towards us and this 993TT shot past and then braked hard before the 'T' junction perhaps a 100 yards up the road. Of course, this gained everyone's attention, not just a few of us petrolheads... the next sequence you'd have to see to believe. The car then floored it in reverse, we are talking a very narrow street hear, just before it reached us it the engine hit boost and the thing veered towards us, hit an old escort, the escort hit the producers new A class. Escort was a write-off as it snapped the rear wheel off as it hit the curb, A class was badly damaged too. But, this wasn't the end of it, the Porsche hadn't finished yet, after bouncing off the escort it veered across the other side of the road hitting another couple of parked cars, luckily my 951 and a friends Griffith were parked on the pavement to the side of these cars.
The 993TT was a total mess, not only were both rear wings, rear panel, and bumpers a write-off but so was the rear wheels and drivetrain, I would expect the engine to be damaged too by half shafts being forced into it.

The story doesn't end here, I later mentioned this incident to my body shop guy Chris whose premises was about 2 miles away in Wembley. He knew of this car, in fact, he had refused to repair it recently for other damage that it had previously sustained as the owner wanted to bodge it for a quick sale. The car then went to a less reputable garage who did the worked, this company was in the road we were working in and where this new incident occurred. The story goes that it was the owners hired driver who wrecked it the first time, on being fixed at this dodgy outfit the same driver was tasked with collecting the car, you know what happened after that. The only thing that I can think off is this fool as he got to the bottom of the road had forgotten something and decided rather than going around the very long winded one-way system that he'd stick it in reverse and floor it backwards...a bloody stupid thing to do in a turbo with 4wd.
Anyway, so if you come across a very cheap, hidden history, purple (sorry not sure of colour name) 993TT, walk away although, to be honest, I doubt very much if it survived the damage, especially considering it had been badly damaged before...

BTW, that particular model is the only one that I liked in the 911 range...so sad

Pete
 

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