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13k turbo on eBay. Best in country ..... With rare sunroof optune !?

Looks much better than an "average" turbo to me.

I'm assume it's had a reasonable amount of bodywork done as it looks very fresh - a lot depends on how the car has been restored, and how rusty it was.
if you could go over there and see several thousand pounds worth of invoices then that might go some way to supporting the price.

Hope the driver's seat is in good nick...

I agree with Mark - prices are on the rise, but only for really nice ones. More of these seem to be appearing onto the market now.
 

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

I would say that a 944 turbo, excluding track cars or race cars, can't break the £10K mark under any circumstances unless it appeals to the concourse-fetishists, or the museum-owning billionaires.

I think that as the 944 Registrar this is a crazy statement to make and is not helping our cars [:-]

How can you say that a 944 Turbo can't break the £10k mark when I have bought one and I know of 2 others bought recently that are over this figure?

None of the owners are 'Billionaires or concours fetishists' and none of us are planning on keeping them in a museum. Mine is going to Germany in May on a 1300 mile round trip to Dinslaken and Stuttgart which by the end of it will have pushed my mileage towards 50k!!

I am happy to maintain my car to keep its value and if it increases in value over the years that is fine, but if I have to spend money servicing it and maintaining it then that is all part of owning a High Performance Porsche and if I cannot accept that then I should sell it and buy a slower cheaper car that needs less TLC

 
Totally agree with Martin, bought my S2 in November, when looking I had a five figure budget and was happy to spend that for the right car.

To say none of these cars is worth more than £10k can only be personal opinion but as registrar it's a negative one to take.

There are far too many posts on this forum regarding the negatives of 944 ownership, the answer is pay the right price for a car that has none of he negatives then maintain it and enjoy it.

If you pay scrap money you'll get scrap and all the negatives that go with it.

Paul
 
I dont think however much we talk the cars up and decide they are worth more than 911 2.7 RS that it will make a blind bit of difference. Prices will ineviatably rise as the poor examples die off, they are dropping like flies at the moment judging by the number being broken on ebay, there were 4,000 on the road three years ago, there are now 3,200, some will be sorned but a lot have been broken up.

Remember how people used to bin Escorts left rigtht and centre, people started by saving RS1800's, then RS2000's, Mexicos, Harriers etc, then any 2 door, then 4 doors and even now vans and estates, I can see this happening now with Turbo's, tidy Early lux's and to a certain extent S2's, I reckon three years on there will be less than 3000 and we will see people restoring more and more, they have passed rock bottom, I think that PH one was one of the last real bangers and a similar one I happened upon in a side street in Oldham.

Once the perception that you can get a 944 for a grand has been dispelled, those lurking on Ebay at 5 plus grand might not seem so expensive.
 

ORIGINAL: J4CKO

Remember how people used to bin Escorts left rigtht and centre, people started by saving RS1800's, then RS2000's, Mexicos, Harriers etc, then any 2 door, then 4 doors and even now vans and estates

The Escort boys (and I'm an ex Escort boy of 20+ years ownership) will happily pay well into five figures for a questionable shell and a logbook

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=170983660074&globalID=EBAY-GB
 
Martin is right, this forum should be for the promotion and support of the 944 model, not constant negatives because we don't think prices are justified or legitimate. Its not about talking up prices its that we shouldn't be marching them down again. I do think there are people out there who are willing to pay this kind on money as it still represents good value compared to other Porsches and similar aged cars. You don't have to be a collector to have 10K+ to spend on a good older car, just a bit of enthusiasm for the model.

Lets promote that enthusiasm!


Edd
 
I had a look at the Turbo Cab at Specialist Cars of Malton yesterday.

Immaculate, but you'd expect that for £25k

http://www.specialistcarsltd.co.uk/vehicle/porsche-944/porsche-944-turbo-cabriolet
 
To say none of these cars is worth more than £10k can only be personal opinion but as registrar it's a negative one to take.

Well, I stand by it, or at least I stand by the whole comment, not just a clip taken out of context. Everyone's entitled to disagree, of course! [:)]

I genuinely think that a 944 has to be VERY special to sell for more than £10K. Not saying that the ones that sell aren't worth it, they are the very special cars. There are some lovely 944s that have struggled to sell for half what this turbo's advertised at, so it has to be truly exceptional to be worth the money IMO. What I've said is that, from the advert, you can't tell if it's that exceptional, and again I stand by that as it's valid to advise where adverts fall down. We don't actually know how good the bodywork is, we've all seen nicely polished red 944s. There's no detail of the recent history, so for all I know it could be due a clutch, caliper refurb, head gasket, fuel lines, belts, anything.

I also stand by the statement that 944s over that £10K psychological barrier appeal to a more limited market. It stands to reason that a small proportion of the potential buyers will want to spend the maximum, not the bulk of them. I also genuinely believe that (hyperbole aside, lol) most 944s at that price level are bought by people with larger budgets than average, as concourse-standard cars; as such, mileage is a big consideration, and originality is key. This isn't that car, is it? It's also not a dedicated track car project where someone's spent considerable time and money on it. I really do see a 944 turbo, with a six-figure mileage, albeit looking in very nice condition. I've seen cars that have appeared exactly the same, but with detailed history, advertised for half that price.

The "talking the prices down" argument is an interesting one. I'm not sure it's that simple, though. Perhaps there is also the consideration that talking prices UP can be damaging? No-one wants bad 944s to sell for higher prices, then the owners find out they have to put considerable money in to them. You could possibly suggest that talking prices DOWN is actually better, as it puts the worse cars either off the road, hence improving the rarity of the model and the parts supply, or in to the hands of enthusiastic DIYers who can restore them.

Whatever we say about values, I don't think it affects the best examples anyway. There's no drop in the number of cars achieving high valuations, in fact more are being valued at good levels now they're being forced by age to go through restorations. Mine is being re-valued, and why not, as it's been through so much work over the last couple of years. Good cars are increasingly worth proportionally more than the bad ones, that's a good thing I think.

I really can't see it being "negative" to challenge adverts, to be honest about the real-life running costs of the cars, or the weak areas they have. We would be doing potential owners a disservice if we were unreasonably positive about them. Honesty isn't always a negative thing, and I prefer to see the way the cars advertised at such high prices are commented on as realistic, even challenging, but not negative. We're not trying to say the car isn't worth the sticker price, we're asking why it justifies it. Very different things.

Let's talk the best cars up, but let's be brutally honest about the pitfalls of the less good cars. Let's challenge the high-priced cars where they aren't immediately obviously worth the price on the ad. I don't see any of that as negative, perhaps others do, but after the amount I've spent on mine, and the constant stories of cars needing more than their "value" spending on repairs, I certainly don't have rose-tinted specs on when talking about them! [8|]
 
I would argue that our issue is with speculative traders advertising examples of dubious quality and provenance.

I have no issue at all with the cars being regarded as valuable and desirable. I have a large issue with skankers buying poor cars with redeeming features (past bills or unworn seats), which they then proceed to spam up and advertise for comical prices.

Paint and tyres and a cambelt service easily comes to under £1,500. Add a sill repair and its still under £2,000, which leaves how much profit on a car bought with poor paint, worn tyres and two weeks MOT?
 
Paul

I agree with some of what you have said but you said no 944 Turbo except a race car is going to break the £10k barrier

This I totally disagree with and here is why.

Owner A : Has a decent 944 Lux/S/S2/Turbo with 130k on the clock that he has spent a lot of time and money restoring and maintaining. It includes new sills/wings, a repaint, engine repairs including cams etc. and suspension work. He has spent £12,000 on repairs over a 10 year period and the car has a full file of receipts showing all the work carried out

Owner B : Has bought a 944 Lux/S/S2/Turbo with 40k documented miles and a full file of regular servicing and parts required during OPC and Specialist servicing. The car has been mainly garaged and has not been ravaged by time and weather due to the low mileage and therfore has not had any bodywork repairs (with none required) and the only paint work was to remove some stonechips from the front end. This car has also had £12,000 spent on it since it was bought but this has been regular maintenance as required.

No matter how you dress it up Car A is a car that has done considerably more miles than Car B and is a restored car that may be mechanically 100% but will always be a restored car with 130k miles. Car B to me will always be worth more money if it is looked after.

You can restore the worst car with the right parts and enough time/money to do the job (not just a Porsche as I have seen this first hand with Lotus Sunbeams, VW Golfs and Ford Escort RS2000's) but you cannot re-build originality and low mileage as once they are gone they are gone
 

ORIGINAL: MartinRS2K

Paul

I agree with some of what you have said but you said no 944 Turbo except a race car is going to break the £10k barrier

This I totally disagree with and here is why.

Owner A : Has a decent 944 Lux/S/S2/Turbo with 130k on the clock that he has spent a lot of time and money restoring and maintaining. It includes new sills/wings, a repaint, engine repairs including cams etc. and suspension work. He has spent £12,000 on repairs over a 10 year period and the car has a full file of receipts showing all the work carried out

Owner B : Has bought a 944 Lux/S/S2/Turbo with 40k documented miles and a full file of regular servicing and parts required during OPC and Specialist servicing. The car has been mainly garaged and has not been ravaged by time and weather due to the low mileage and therfore has not had any bodywork repairs (with none required) and the only paint work was to remove some stonechips from the front end. This car has also had £12,000 spent on it since it was bought but this has been regular maintenance as required.

No matter how you dress it up Car A is a car that has done considerably more miles than Car B and is a restored car that may be mechanically 100% but will always be a restored car with 130k miles. Car B to me will always be worth more money if it is looked after.

You can restore the worst car with the right parts and enough time/money to do the job (not just a Porsche as I have seen this first hand with Lotus Sunbeams, VW Golfs and Ford Escort RS2000's) but you cannot re-build originality and low mileage as once they are gone they are gone

Hi Martin,

You're kind of making my point, here? What I said was:

I would say that a 944 turbo, excluding track cars or race cars, can't break the £10K mark under any circumstances unless it appeals to the concourse-fetishists, or the museum-owning billionaires.

Well-converted track specials are always worth over £10K, but will be cars that have had over £20K spent on them.

Concourse, low-mileage original cars are still valued at well over £10K, but a 100K turbo with the wrong front indicators is probably a long way from that market, where the cars only appeal to the museum collectors.


Your example is exactly what I'm saying; the market for a £13K 944 turbo that isn't a race/track special is limited, and in my view it's the collectors or concourse buyers who would likely be the ones to spend that sort of money. Low miles and originality are key to them, and this car has neither. By your argument the particular car we're talking about won't appeal to the buyers with serious money to spend on a 944, period. Unless, of course, it's mechanically and visually as good as it MIGHT be, which you can't tell from the ad. This car is your car A, but we don't know how much work it's had done.

I can't see that repeating myself is getting me anywhere, I'm trying to say that exceptional 944s are easily valued at over £10K, and all of you have lovely 944s. Poor 944s are still overvalued in many cases, we still need less of them around in order to raise the rarity factor. I don't think, on the basis of the ad, that this car will make £13K, but good luck to them if it does.

I'm hugely enthusiastic about the model, evangelical when promoting it, wouldn't devote so much time to it if I thought they were all £500 sheds, and I wouldn't have spent so much on mine if I didn't see long-term ownership as a given. I can't see that saying one particular car, at an unusually high price, might not be the bargain of the century, is in any way being negative about the model overall!
 
Fortunately your opinion is in the minority.

Fact is prices for 944's may well be going up, and 10k+ can be expected for really good cars, even if they don't have ultra low mileage, a car is worth what people are willing to spend on them and as Martin has already said there have been a few 10k+ purchases by people who just want a good car, are not millionaires or even collectors.

If prices are appreciating are we going to shout them down at each increase we see? Each time a dealer is optimistic? We need to look forward not back and support those selling these cars to get the price they deserve and those buying, the best car that is available to them.

Blanket statements on cars never able to reach certain values is pessimistic in the least, its wise to be cautious about these cars but lets not assume the worst unless given good reason.


Edd
 
Well that's cleared things up a bit [:)]

Hopefully we can all agree that we want fewer 944's about and those that are on the road are of a better standard and will help to make these an appreciated performance car and if this in turn increases their value then all the better [:D]
 
That car looks fantastic! [8D]

The underbody pictures are amazingly clean and probably better than 99% of all the other British cars out there. Just look at all the new bolts, fuel lines and fixings under there, if someone has gone to great lengths to do that then odds are that the history file will show one of the very best maintained examples out there.

Shame on all of you trying to knock it down without even seeing it in the flesh [:(]
 
Here Here !!

We do spend too much time talking them down, some people are spending silly money on other "classics" which frankly do not come anywhere near as good as a decent 944 is, looks, capability and practicality.
A good solid car does not really cost that much more to run than any other car, belts are no big deal, nor any other bits if you are okay with the spanners, we can still get all the bits required at reasonable prices and they are plentiful at the moment.
Wish i had a pound for every time a 996 911 owner has commented on my car saying that they had one and should have kept it.
As previously posted let the dealers bring the prices up and we will all benefit should we sell, anyone who knows what they are looking at should be able to sort the wheat from the chaff and pay accordingly.
 
Car is lovely,just had a look at the pics thoroughly,things I would change to create top perception.
Change rear box for a dansk or more standard looking,
Change indicators back to yellow,
Coolant tank change,
Yellow sticker on pipe,
Wipe the patchy silicone off the under bonnet.
Difference is in the detail,these things cost negligible but create a quality example feel.
If you look at their stock it looks like a well heeled company.
 
I agree with all that mark - the back box in particular is horrible.

from what I've read about them previously, they have a good attention to detail in their service and maintenance work.
 
How can you say that a 944 Turbo can't break the £10k mark when I have bought one and I know of 2 others bought recently that are over this figure?

You can add me to that list of others, I figured an "expensive" refurbished 944t with a perfect-bore engine and ball bearing turbo was still good value compared to a TDI Golf or Audi which would depreciate £10k in 12 to 18 months. After two years the 944t is free.....[:)]

The trends are there in 356's, pre-impact 911's.......... and the 80's product range are now entering the transition phase from value depreciation to appreciation.

we understand (most of us anyway) the value potential of the 944t - a unique model in the series. They incorporate the benefits of the front engine / transaxle cars with the earliest digital engine management turbo application, and the traditional Porsche over-engineered standard. (unless you count the TAG Engine [:)] which was developed around the same time)

Thats unique.

The next 2wd turbo porsche (968t excluded) was the GT2

Martin sums this up very well. and will be proved correct by the passing of time.

George
944t
 
I heard good things about them as a garage and their stock looks lovely,the car also comes with a warranty and I am sure they would stand by the car with a hard won reputation to protect,this will always make a car a bit more expensive,but seeing figures more often like this in the trade sales will pull up the private sale values.
Don't forget we will lose a lot of good examples over the next few years to buyers from abroad,the two high price Silver rose cars at GMUND a while back,both went to Southern hemisphere I heard.There are only so many cars,and you only need one buyer per car,sounds obvious but think about it,it's true.[:)]
 

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