Suspension - Spax or Bilstien B6 & Poly bushes

[PhilKent]

Hi, I need new rear shocks and so was thinking of upgrading to bilstien B6 (all round, not just rear), but noticed D911 do a set of adjustable spax with springs for a couple hundred extra, anyone run these and have any comments/recommendations? Not looking for a track setup really, just decent road use with potential for track...Spax seem to offer fully adjustable corner weight settings as well...plus any other bit's I should consider 'while I'm in there'...?

 

[robwright]

I am running a full set of Spax. Like you just wanted a fast road set up no track. Have to say I have no problems with them at all. Whatever you choose will be miles better than what you have now. You may want to think about lowering the back while you are at it. Like others before I ran the rear with the coilovers but took them off as my spine nearly shattered. The torsion bar on the rear is enough. I have a decent road setup geo if you want for a slightly lowered car.

 

[PhilKent]

Thanks Rob, I'm leaning towards the Bilsteins I think....

I'll be in touch if I go for indexing the rear...

However, I do have a further question for anyone who's done bushes replacement. Considering buying a 'kit' of poly bushes with the shocks to replace all suspension bushes. I've heard it can give a bit too firm a ride with squeaky movement. Anyone got any experience to share, should I bother? It'll be a pig of a job I imagine...

 

[Waylander]

from experience of riding in cars that have had the polybush treatment, I would say the ride is not harder but much more harsh, loads more road noise and vibration, but not heard them squeaking

 

[Briggy]

Just checking that you know you need to convert the front struts to accommodate the Bilstein shocks i.e. it's not a straight swap?

Cheers,

Bryan

 

[PhilKent]

Didn't know that Bryan, thanks. Assumed it was a straight swap. Wow! just watched a video on you-tube about what to do. Don't think I can do that with my 'workshop'. I'll need to find a specialist. Any recommendations in/around Surrey from anyone?

 

[PSH]

I fitted Koni adjustable's to my '86' Phil, there's a little work to do to the front structs for the inserts to fit but nothing too complicated although a little daunting to begin with. Adjustable shocks on the rear too and the larger ARB's both front and back. I have poly bushes on the front, can't say that I've found then harder, certainly no squeaking. Not easy for me to compare though as when I changed the suspension the car was still on it's original components which were well past their best to say the least.

Pete

 

[zcacogp]

Been there, done that, can unconditionally recommend the Bilstein option. It's very good INDEED and, given the cost of the parts and the alternatives, I'd say I wouldn't consider anything else if I had to do the job again. The KWv3's are also very good but several times the price.

If you have the narrow-spring front struts (S2's and late turbos) then you do need to do some welding to make the new front units work. However it isn't a difficult job for someone with a welder and there are people out there who will convert your current struts for you for not much money. For what it's worth I also put polybushes on my road-going S2 (and replaced the lower ball joints at the same time) and it's no more harsh or noisy than with the stock rubber bushes.

If you want a simpler solution then the Koni's are what I fitted when I first bought the car (13 years ago!) and they were good, but not a patch on the Bilsteins. I have no experience of the Spax bits but, in general, Spax kit tends to be a bit cheap-and-cheery.

Pay for a good geo. Let it all settle (dampers take a few hundred miles to bed in) and you'll be amazed at the difference - especially if (as Pete said) your current ones are past their best.

Oli.

 

[PSH]

If you have the narrow-spring front struts (S2's and late turbos) then you do need to do some welding to make the new front units work. However it isn't a difficult job for someone with a welder and there are people out there who will convert your current struts for you for not much money. For what it's worth I also put polybushes on my road-going S2 (and replaced the lower ball joints at the same time) and it's no more harsh or noisy than with the stock rubber bushes.

Oli.

I think you mean the 'early turbo's Oli...

Pete

 

[PhilKent]

Thanks for the post Oli, that's very helpful. I watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgrRt0Hyhr0 and it put me off doing a DIY job as while I have an Arc Welder and bench grinder at home I don't have much else for a workshop, and looking at the video it's pretty involved plus quite entertaining at the same time! I noted the threaded inserts, where do you get them from, or do you need to have them machined on a lathe? I could find a local fabricator, but would rather either DIY or find a porsche specialist...

Also, if I were to do all the bushes, how much of a faf is it? Hours of painstaking fiddling with tight fitting bushes trying to get them to fit, or fairly straightforward?

PS. I have an early turbo, the earliest turbo possibly! Front struts were replaced about 10-12 years ago with std units, but only done about 20-25k since then. I bought a set of std rear shocks last years, but haven't got round to fitting them yet, and thought about doing the upgrade, until I saw that video!!

 

[PSH]

I just watched the video...it's been a while but the Koni inserts are a lot simpler than Bilsteins to fit, no welding involved for a start...perhaps a simpler design but still adjustable.

Pete

 

[zcacogp]

Pete,

Early turbo or late turbo? I dunno, I never bother to look at the VIN when they disappear into my rear view mirror .... []

Phil, you can buy the collars online from a place in Germany, here:

http://www.sportwagenparts.de/shop_content.php?coID=47

Or you can use the tops of the front suspension units from a Mk1 or Mk2 golf, which are the right size and threaded and can be welded onto the tops of your existing struts.

I made mine up on a friend's lathe from some steel stock. This took time but cost practically nothing.

Yes, that's Jurgen's video. He does a very comprehensive job and I skipped some parts (filling, for one.) Painting is necessary however to keep them from rusting.

Bushes are easy. You'll need some pry bars and a large bench vice but there is nothing difficult about doing them. I did the whole job (lathing, cutting, welding, swapping new units in, rebuilding lower balljoints etc) in a weekend with a friend to help me. Trip to the Geo Boys the following week and all was very nice indeed!

Oli.

ETA: Pete, I had the Koni's on mine until I swapped them for the Bilsteins. It's hard to do a true back-to-back comparison as the Koni's I took off had 80,000 miles on them and the Bilsteins were new but it's clear from looking at them that the Bilsteins are a better-made part. They are heavier, beefier, the chromed inserts are much thicker, they just feel more substantial. The improvement in handling was very impressive too, and the Koni's that came off were not knackered at all. Adjustability never rates highly in my book and I never changed the settings on the Koni's, although I did have to have a replacement rear soon after they were fitted as it went soft. It's true that Koni's are easier to fit but the Bilsteins are well worth the extra effort IMHO.

 

[blade7]

My 91 turbo had the smaller dia front springs. Looking at ebay prices for old suspension, I may have to dig them out from the shed....

 

[PSH]

Pete,

Early turbo or late turbo? I dunno, I never bother to look at the VIN when they disappear into my rear view mirror .... []

I concede...I just can't keep up with you Oli...

I may have misunderstood the early/late debate...I was thinking that only the early struts have inserts available, I thought with the later type inserts weren't available and you had to replace the entire unit?..so I stand to be corrected if I have this wrong...

Pete

 

[edh]

However, I do have a further question for anyone who's done bushes replacement. Considering buying a 'kit' of poly bushes with the shocks to replace all suspension bushes. I've heard it can give a bit too firm a ride with squeaky movement. Anyone got any experience to share, should I bother? It'll be a pig of a job I imagine...

I wouldn't bother with some of the bushes, they are very firm rubber & on mine (240k miles) were still in pretty good condition when we replaced with solid & semi-solid bushes (it's a track car..). Best to inspect & only change if they look poor IMO.

 

[zcacogp]

I concede...I just can't keep up with you Oli...

Pete,

Suspension business completely aside, it's good that someone can still keep up a bit of the old banter on here! Sometimes this does seem like a very quiet forum, so keep on with it old boy ... .

Oli.

 

[blade7]

Bilstein, and I'd have threaded collars fitted to enable height adjustment too.

 

[PhilKent]

Hi Oli,

In Jurgen's video he states that the strut needs to be cut by 44.5mm, do you nkow where he's measuring from? Since he's already ground out and removed the original collar, I'm not sure where he's got the 44.5mm from and I wouldn't want to chop too much off... I'm trying to get hold of sportwagen to order the collars at the moment, or a shop that can fabricate for me...

 

[zcacogp]

Phil,

I can't help on that as I lathed up my own collars, and made them with a skirt which was a tight fit inside the existing struts so that they could be moved in and out to find the right place. I measured, but only very crudely and then welded along the point where the strut ended and the collar began. (I hope that made sense!)

If I was doing the job again with shorter collars then I'd be tempted to cut off the smallest amount possible from the old strut and put the Bilstein strut inside it to see how everything lines up. I seem to recall that there is a dome at the bottom end of the old strut that the Bilstein strut sits down into and which locates it centrally, and there is a nylon collar on the Bilstein strut that holds it centrally at the top as well. Once it is in then the dimensions are easy to see.

Oli.

 

[Johndstratford]

I recently had SPAX RSX104 fixed to my 1989 2.7 and I'm really pleased with them. They bolt straight on but need to be set up for the ride height and adjustment. I'm no mechanic so had them professionally fitted and set up for me. I have them on the 'softest' setting which seems absolutely fine for normal road use. I shopped around and found them offered at £800ish, £750 and eventually purchased them for £607 plus free delivery (they turned up next day) from Demon Tweets.

John