Losing it on a wet round about

[leoc277]

Hi all. I have 991.2 GTS Carrera 2 auto, PDCC, Rear wheel steering, - I live in South Bucks and on Saturday 9th of Nov I traveled to Leicester to meet with family - I left Leicester c1030pm on Saturday to travel back, weather was awful lots of rain and the weather outside temp c5 degrees i reached South Bucks at around 0015, car felt stable, tyres where warm - i turned off the motorway was not speeding the rain had stopped however it was greasy roundabout and suddenly the rear end just lot grip and I went sideways to the left I then over corrected and the car swung the right, it then hit the grass verge central reservation and the car sun 360 and i was facing the on coming traffic, luckily I missed all bollards and there was no traffic at the time - However my confidence has been knocked as A. I do not know what caused the spin B. PSM lights did not come on and I could not feel any assistance.
Just a couple of days before the car had gone back to Porsche West London as the heater was not working - and the motor was replaced under warranty - they also performed a health check and the brakes and tyres were fine they told me (+6 at the front and 3 at the rear) even wear.
I have booked the car into Porsche centre Reading to look at the car and test PSM, However this episode has left my confidence shattered in the car as was totally unexpected, i have the car for past 6 months and it has not missed a beat other than the heater, - has anyone else experienced anything similar or has any suggestions.

 

[ralphmusic]

It may be the 3mm tread depth of the rear tyres, a tad too much throttle and greasy road.

Suggest new rear tyres and to rebuild confidence try Porsche Experience Centre or check out Gary Marsh who assists on Club track days and has run training courses for members at Abingdon (there are other driver instructors).

 

[mr pg]

Could be a combination.
At that time of day and temp, summer tyres are not going to be that warm. You said it was greasy, and your tread depth is just 3mm, so added to tyres not being that warm, and possibly a bit too much throttle (?), could explain the sudden oversteer? Unless the centre find some technical issue to cause the problem.

 

[Lancerlot]

Adverse weather conditions, diesel spillage on the road, powerful sportscar - no amount of electronic gadgetry can completely overcome the laws of physics!
You need to take a driving course in controlled conditions to regain your confidence. []
Regards,

Clive

 

[McMurray]

Big factor here could be the ambient temperature. The tyres are never going to warm up at 5 degrees especially in the wet. I saw a piece of demo kit in one of the dealerships which did a great job of showing the difference between summer and winter tyre grip level.

You may also have been extremely unlucky & hit a fuel spill, this happened to a friend of mine in his Lotus very similar to your description although he unfortunately wrote his car off

Steve

 

[leoc277]

Thanks everyone - appreciate the advise and quick response, yep i totally agree with lack of talent and maybe a degree of panic during the slide however the unpredcictable sudden breakaway (expecting some sort of intervention from PSM at this stage) and pendulum effect surprised me and the fact that no Traction Control / PSM light came on at all throughout. I am defo putting on Winter tyres and will contact Gary for some driving tuition - Thank again

 

[leoc277]

Or was also considering a Carrera 4 GTS

 

[mr pg]

You can also book in to use your own car at the Porsche experience centre. The kick plate, ice hill and low friction surface area would be very good experience.

 

[leoc277]

yep sounds, good - I have spoken with Gary and hopefully he will be able to assist also

 

[JezKaye]

Hi all. I have 991.2 GTS Carrera 2 auto, PDCC, Rear wheel steering, - I live in South Bucks and on Saturday 9th of Nov I traveled to Leicester to meet with family - I left Leicester c1030pm on Saturday to travel back, weather was awful lots of rain and the weather outside temp c5 degrees i reached South Bucks at around 0015, car felt stable, tyres where warm - i turned off the motorway was not speeding the rain had stopped however it was greasy roundabout and suddenly the rear end just lot grip and I went sideways to the left I then over corrected and the car swung the right, it then hit the grass verge central reservation and the car sun 360 and i was facing the on coming traffic, luckily I missed all bollards and there was no traffic at the time - However my confidence has been knocked as A. I do not know what caused the spin B. PSM lights did not come on and I could not feel any assistance.
Just a couple of days before the car had gone back to Porsche West London as the heater was not working - and the motor was replaced under warranty - they also performed a health check and the brakes and tyres were fine they told me (+6 at the front and 3 at the rear) even wear.
I have booked the car into Porsche centre Reading to look at the car and test PSM, However this episode has left my confidence shattered in the car as was totally unexpected, i have the car for past 6 months and it has not missed a beat other than the heater, - has anyone else experienced anything similar or has any suggestions.


Get some decent tyres and some expert tuition! Last Friday I took my 911 991.1 Carrera S to Silverstone for a general track day and hired a full time trainer, who is a very experienced racing driver and Grade 1 Racing instructor. The conditions were greasy. My instructor explained that the greasy conditions are the worst. This is categorised by wet looking track, where tyres do not kick up any spray. It was like driving on ice, there was much less feel through the steering wheel or seat. The key is to use the smallest possible steering inputs, not to alter your line during direction change and apply tiny changes to the throttle unless all the wheels are straight, in which case you can boot it. During the day many cars spun out. In these circumstances, the rear will slide. If it is s small slide by applying a tiny bit too much throttle then you can just as easily reduce the throttle by the same tiny amount to correct, without any significant change to steering. Later the track dried out. The difference between dry and greasy is immense, so never under estimate it. If you change throttle by more than a millimtetre at a time when greasy or make large steering inputs you will slide, potentially uncontrollably. We stayed safe and went fast, but we still slid whenever I overestimated that there would be enough grip for my throttle input.

 

[mphillips]

Others have pointed out all the obvious stuff Leo, but you can get your confidence back. Personally, I've done a lot of training the last couple of years I've owned my 911, to the point at which I'm now confident I've built 'muscle memory' to catch slides. If you can stretch to it, I highly recommend the ice driving experience with Porsche. Over three days of driving on a frozen lake in Finland, everything happens at much slower speeds so you get time to take in what's happening with the physics. They actually tell you in the first driver briefing that they want to build muscle memory so it becomes automatic to 'catch' a wayward car. This is, I appreciate, an expensive option though. My second choice would be a day with Colin Hoad at CAT Driver Training. They have a special dynamics pad at Millbrook where you can get up to all sorts of slidey mischief. It's excellent fun, as well as building some important skills. I did a large write up, here on the forum, about my day there – https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/FindPost/999139 Having also done a two day course with Porsche at the PEC, I would say it was good, but compared to Colin they're just not as informative. Since the prices are so similar, I would only recommend choosing CAT over the PEC.

Equipment wise, generally speaking under 7 degrees you're better off with winter rubber on a car – the compound is different and it does make a massive difference. I've ran winter tyres on my last three cars as soon as it starts to drop below 7 degrees more days than it is above. Porsche's own recent YouTube video about winter tyres makes a great example of the difference – https://youtu.be/xVIkdGPOFHY For the price of a set of wheels and tyres though you might as well sort your skills and have a great time in Finland on the frozen lakes If you can stretch to both, then all the better!

Hope the confidence comes back, although I'm sure it will. The 911 drifts really sweetly once you're used to noticing the rotation start

 

[Dylan1]

Personally I put the winter rubber anytime it looks like 10 deg or lower for long period
also I get new rubber anywhere under 4mm- maybe a bit OTT but my choice.
ive been on numerous wet and icy courses and there’s no doubt reflexes do get learnt.
the CAT training was also very good
I would do all the above if you can
and enjoy the drive ??

 

[leoc277]

Really appreciate all the feedback here, I think a winter driving course is in order, I have also purchased a set of winter tyres from @Terry from the forum and will get these fitted asap

 

[Sie91]

Hi all,
I am new to the Porsche Club and I only got my first Porsche in February. Since I do not drive it very often I am very cautious in the wet. During a rainy day I came off a slip road to a small round about and noticed a patch of very smooth wet tarmac so I slowed right down and had my foot over the brake and the rear end still slipped out a few inches, I couldn't have been going more than 15mph.

 

[Craiglm68]

Agree with the above re PEC and CAT training. Note that Goodwood also offers a Spin & Slide short course too