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Helpful ReplyHot!718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.!

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Steve Brookes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/12 12:19:56 (permalink)
An interesting final paragraph in the TG review:
 
'Given a straight choice between them I honestly don’t know which one I’d have. The old one probably, but chiefly for the bragging rights of having the original – and likely most collectible. Still, what a superb sports car.'

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BJ Innes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/12 12:52:50 (permalink)
I found that TG report on the 982 GT4 a very interesting read. I liked the question and answer format. I thought that worked very well for a short, concise report.
 
The comments on the comparison with its 981 predecessor must also warm the hearts of current owners. The 982 GT4 is being true to Porsches development strategy in offering increased refinement in each subsequent model.
 
I would say Porsche have done a good job on the 4.0 engine development. Novel features such as shutting down one bank of cylinders below 3000rpm for a short time (20 seconds) is new for the flat-6. Clever software stuff that. Unfortunate that Porsche have chosen not to shorten the gearing ratios for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.
 
As a chassis handling man, I'm impressed with the suspension developments on the new GT4. If they had also shortened the gearing, it would have been perfect.
 
It strikes me as odd to read the following comments on the increased weight and road performance of the 982 GT4,
 
"I’m afraid so. Porsche isn’t saying much on this, other than this new car needs a heavier starter motor and the new rear diffuser accounts for a bit, too. I suspect the engine is weightier and that the modifications haven’t been able to undo the changes necessitated for the turbo four engine. The GT4 – and I’m surprised to be saying this – is actually the heaviest Cayman in the range. The luxo GTS is 45kg lighter. And faster. Provided you spec PDK, Sport Chrono and so on." 
 
As an owner of a 718 GTS PDK with all the performance options, I am surprised that the author is stating that a so equipped 718 GTS is both lighter and faster.
 
In real terms, the new 982 GT4 specced with buckets and ceramics is topping £85,000. It will be interesting to see how enthusiastically this new model is taken up by existing GT4 owners. The new car has a very hard act to follow, and I'm sure many current GT4 owners will choose to stick with what they have already.
 
Brian 
 
                  

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Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/12 13:41:23 (permalink)
Brian,
 
I suspect that most of the 982 GT4 budget was taken up with development of the "new" engine, even if Porsche are planning to use it in other cars to offset the costs. Shortening the 2nd, 3rd and 4th gearbox ratios would have been very expensive for what is a limited production car, and I reckon that Porsche chose to use a significant part of the GT4 development budget for the promised PDK transmission installation.
 
The debate about increased weight will rumble on no doubt, but you have to believe AP when he says that it's about 30kg on a like-for-like-basis compared with the 981; and anyway, the PDK transmission will add yet another 30kg..! Note that the technical data for the GTS and GT4 gives the respective (DIN) weights as 1375kg and 1420kg and max speeds as 180mph and 188mph, so the TG hack was half correct.
 
I'd have to agree with you that if I was a 981 GT4 owner like Steve I wouldn't be in a hurry to jump into 982 GT4 ownership unless you're keen to have "the latest thing" and with a full factory warranty.
 
Jeff

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Steve Brookes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/12 15:13:47 (permalink)
I can safely say now that I would only be interested in trading mine for the new one if PDK becomes an option....assuming that they would 'allow me to'!

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Deanoc123
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/12 15:15:53 (permalink)
Steve Brookes
I can safely say now that I would only be interested in trading mine for the new one if PDK becomes an option....assuming that they would 'allow me to'!



Same. PDK only for me. Although I think I'm going to go Spyder now. Enjoying track fun in cheaper 'built not bought' cars.

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BJ Innes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/12 16:26:34 (permalink)
Motorhead
Brian,
 
I suspect that most of the 982 GT4 budget was taken up with development of the "new" engine, even if Porsche are planning to use it in other cars to offset the costs. Shortening the 2nd, 3rd and 4th gearbox ratios would have been very expensive for what is a limited production car, and I reckon that Porsche chose to use a significant part of the GT4 development budget for the promised PDK transmission installation.
 
The debate about increased weight will rumble on no doubt, but you have to believe AP when he says that it's about 30kg on a like-for-like-basis compared with the 981; and anyway, the PDK transmission will add yet another 30kg..! Note that the technical data for the GTS and GT4 gives the respective (DIN) weights as 1375kg and 1420kg and max speeds as 180mph and 188mph, so the TG hack was half correct.
 
I'd have to agree with you that if I was a 981 GT4 owner like Steve I wouldn't be in a hurry to jump into 982 GT4 ownership unless you're keen to have "the latest thing" and with a full factory warranty.
 
Jeff




I have to agree with you Jeff regarding the gearbox ratios. The GT4 PDK option is growing stronger by the day in my opinion, and as I know from personal experience, the PDK gear ratios are shorter anyway and will further improve the 0-100mph and in-gear acceleration times of the new car.
 
Regarding the TG comment about the 718 GTS PDK being faster than the 982 GT4 manual, I think this statement refers to the standing start acceleration times rather than the top speed, which is largely an academic figure for most owners. I've owned 5 Caymans and not  a single one of them has ever been tested at the top speed end of the performance spectrum. Even on track days. So I think TG is correct on both counts.
 
The comparative standing start and in-gear acceleration times between the 982 GT4 and 718 GTS PDK are most probably attributable to the shorter gear ratios of the  PDK transmission as well as the super-fast full throttle cog shifting.
 
I also completely understand why some current GT4 owners like Steve, are waiting for the PDK GT4. It may arrive sooner rather than later. 
 
Brian   
 
 
post edited by BJ Innes - 2019/07/12 16:29:37

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
2019 718 Cayman S PDK
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual
718 Cayman GTS PDK

Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/13 15:36:04 (permalink)
The best GT4 pic to date?
 
Jeff

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Andrew_CS
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/13 16:07:25 (permalink)
`Clark` at Knockhill ... ?
 
Appreciate the diffuser design requirements but as previously noted ... aesthetically poor ! 

Andrew
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BJ Innes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/13 19:53:15 (permalink)
An excellent photo of the 982 GT4 at Knockhill. As to the corner in question, it could be one of three with a fast approach so I have listed the following in order of the most likely.
 
I. Entry to Duffus Dip.
2. Clark's corner.
3. Exit of the Chicane.
 
I agree with Andrew and others that the tail pipe exits in the rear diffuser are a mess.
 
Brian 
 

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
2019 718 Cayman S PDK
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual
718 Cayman GTS PDK

Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/13 22:06:51 (permalink)
Well,  here's Steve Sutcliffe waxing lyrical about the new car:
 
https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayman-gt4/22886/new-porsche-cayman-gt4-2019-review-its-a-bit-special
 
PH's Dan Prosser seems to like it too:
 
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/2019-porsche-718-cayman-gt4--driven/40596
 
The reviews appear to be coming thick and fast - presumably the embargo on publication has been lifted? More news from Porsche tomorrow?
 
The reviews seem to be based upon the Knockhill track drives and it looks as though we'll have to wait a while until the hacks get an opportunity to drive the car on UK roads for a full assessment.
 
Jeff
post edited by Motorhead - 2019/07/15 09:04:31

987.2 Cayman S
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Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/15 13:20:36 (permalink)
There's some reasonable in-car sound from the Knockhill drives (excepting the French commentary!) from ~3 min :
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=0h0m1s&v=KORdvTSoFyw&app=desktop
 
Sounds pretty good to me..!
 
In addition to the standard Red, White and Yellow colours available, the video also shows the optional Crayon and Gentian Blue.
 
Jeff
post edited by Motorhead - 2019/07/15 13:32:09

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Deanoc123
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/15 13:40:20 (permalink)
Motorhead
There's some reasonable in-car sound from the Knockhill drives (excepting the French commentary!) from ~3 min :
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=0h0m1s&v=KORdvTSoFyw&app=desktop
 
Sounds pretty good to me..!
 
In addition to the standard Red, White and Yellow colours available, the video also shows the optional Crayon and Gentian Blue.
 
Jeff




I'm gutted it has lost the snap crackle and pop. It still put a big grin on my face in the 981

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MrDemon
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/15 13:47:01 (permalink)
I see he went to 86 mph in 2nd lol
 
great car, great engine at this price.
 
**** gearbox. and now torque limited also which is a shame having a 4.0 and not allowing access to the torque a bigger engine gives.
 
I would have paid £100k no issue for this car with a bespoke gear box.
 
Seems the only choice in the new car is to option the PDK !!!
 
shame about more weight and lighter steering though :-(  
post edited by MrDemon - 2019/07/15 13:49:13

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ralphmusic
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/16 07:40:00 (permalink)
For Brian,  What do you think of this lap of Knockhill?
 

 
 
 
 

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Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/16 08:56:39 (permalink)
Smooth and fast - that's the way to do it. Very nice!
 
Note that Walter seems to be using 3rd gear for most of the lap (and even has time to time his lap too!).
 
Jeff

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Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/16 09:56:50 (permalink)
MrDemon
I see he went to 86 mph in 2nd lol
 
great car, great engine at this price.
 
**** gearbox. and now torque limited also which is a shame having a 4.0 and not allowing access to the torque a bigger engine gives.
 
I would have paid £100k no issue for this car with a bespoke gear box.
 
Seems the only choice in the new car is to option the PDK !!!
 
shame about more weight and lighter steering though :-(  




Get real D. The GT4 isn't a £100k+ car - you can spec a very good car for ~£85k. Given the significant development costs for the new engine, Porsche were never going to spend time and money getting Getrag to re-engineer the transmission for a car that will only be in production for 2 or 3-years at most. Better to spend time and money on PDK development which will be a transmission suitable for the next hybrid mid-engine cars; most probably the only transmission available.
 
Shark Werks charge about $9k for their re-geared transmission (3rd, 4th and 5th), which includes rebuild costs, so that's always an alternative if you must have closer ratios.
 
+30kg is neither here nor there in a car weighing nearly 1.5 tonnes. No-one (yourself included!) can comment on the steering until they've actually driven a car - it's part of the chassis package, and I'm not sure that the hacks are complaining about it. And anyway, there's nothing wrong with making the new car different from its predecessor - less raw and more accessible perhaps to more owners with different driving skill-sets? Nothing wrong with that.
 
Jeff

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MrDemon
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/16 10:00:20 (permalink)
Motorhead
Smooth and fast - that's the way to do it. Very nice!
 
Note that Walter seems to be using 3rd gear for most of the lap (and even has time to time his lap too!).
 
Jeff




the GT4 and ALL GT porkers are 3rd gear cars, saps the life from them esp the 981 manuals and the older GT3's.
 
they did fit the 911 R and 991.2 manual with shorter ratio's thank goodness.
 
 

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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/16 10:14:37 (permalink)
Motorhead
MrDemon
I see he went to 86 mph in 2nd lol
 
great car, great engine at this price.
 
**** gearbox. and now torque limited also which is a shame having a 4.0 and not allowing access to the torque a bigger engine gives.
 
I would have paid £100k no issue for this car with a bespoke gear box.
 
Seems the only choice in the new car is to option the PDK !!!
 
shame about more weight and lighter steering though :-(  




Get real D. The GT4 isn't a £100k+ car - you can spec a very good car for ~£85k. Given the significant development costs for the new engine, Porsche were never going to spend time and money getting Getrag to re-engineer the transmission for a car that will only be in production for 2 or 3-years at most. Better to spend time and money on PDK development which will be a transmission suitable for the next hybrid mid-engine cars; most probably the only transmission available.
 
Shark Werks charge about $9k for their re-geared transmission (3rd, 4th and 5th), which includes rebuild costs, so that's always an alternative if you must have closer ratios.
 
+30kg is neither here nor there in a car weighing nearly 1.5 tonnes. No-one (yourself included!) can comment on the steering until they've actually driven a car - it's part of the chassis package, and I'm not sure that the hacks are complaining about it. And anyway, there's nothing wrong with making the new car different from its predecessor - less raw and more accessible perhaps to more owners with different driving skill-sets? Nothing wrong with that.
 
Jeff




 
why cannot it be a £100k car (base price would be about £82k)?  so £100k would be with PCCB's and all the bits but a headline £82k list price.
 
a 718 GTS PDK car can be speced upto what £80k very easy and dare I say it faster !
 
the GT products are halo cars,  Porsche will make 10,000 of them world wide inc Spyders so not that bespoke to make a gearbox for, well we have a gear box, we just need some cogs.
 
And last they would sell them all and it would be a mega car, a GT4 with usable ratio's and access to 340lb/ft torque.
that's still £35k cheaper than a speced up GT3, so a nice gap in price still.
 
weights always a down side as if you add PDK which fits the new car better that's an extra 65kg, the GT4 was nice as it was a lot lighter than a GT3, now that gaps closed.
Adding weight is never great when things should be getting lighter.
 
I am sure most new GT4 buyers would pay the £100kall in  if it had a gearbox fit for it.

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Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/16 10:53:25 (permalink)
I'm not disagreeing with you D - although I'm not convinced that the GT4 is a £100k+ car - and although the 911 GT3 and 911R certainly are Porsche Halo cars, I'm not totally convinced that Porsche want to project exactly the same image for the mid-engine cars in order to protect their "beloved" 911. Easier then to justify re-gearing the GT3 'box than that of the GT4, especially since they'll be able to address the gearing issue to some extent with the PDK transmission.
 
Just to throw in a curve ball; unlike the last Spyder, as far as I can make out the latest offering is a GT Group product thus further diluting development time and costs.
 
And if you think the new car's a bit lardy, just wait until the hybrid cars arrive..!
 
Personally I'm more interested to see if the 982 becomes more readily available than its predecessor rather than niggling - but very minor - issues about gearing and weight.
 
Jeff
 
 
post edited by Motorhead - 2019/07/16 12:13:03

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PaulJ
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/07/16 12:52:11 (permalink)
Each to their own, but I do feel that people often dismiss standard Porsche spec as being totally inadequate unless it has been 'cake iced' with £15k with of extras.  (I may be a little biased here as I only specced about £1500 in options when I bought my 981 GTS....)
 
If Kate Beckinsale asked you out, would you give her the knock back unless she upgraded her shoes, handbag, clothes, make-up and hairdo?  Me neither!  
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