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Helpful ReplyHot!718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.!

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Brian_Innes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/19 13:28:28 (permalink)
Jeff,
 
Regarding the weight comparison between the 981 and 718. It just so happens I am currently compiling a comparative report on the 981 Cayman GTS PDK and the 718 Cayman GTS PDK.
 
I have the following respective weights listed below taken from the handbooks.
 
981 Cayman GTS PDK
Kerb Weight DIN: 1370kg - 1440kg depending upon specification.
 
718 Cayman GTS PDK
 
Kerb Weight DIN: 1420kg - 1490kg depending upon specification.
 
The 718 is 50kgs heavier than the 981 on a like for like basis.
 
Brian 
 

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
2016 718 Cayman S PDK
2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual

Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/19 13:31:44 (permalink)
Thanks Brian.
 
And I guess that the PDK option adds 20-25kg to the manual cars?
 
Jeff

987.2 Cayman S
North Beds (R10 & R24)
Brian_Innes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/19 14:05:15 (permalink)
Motorhead
Thanks Brian.
 
And I guess that the PDK option adds 20-25kg to the manual cars?
 
Jeff


 
The PDK option adds 30kg to the manual cars.
 
Brian 

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
2016 718 Cayman S PDK
2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual

ralphmusic
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/19 14:21:43 (permalink)
 
 
BJ Innes
Jeff,
 
Regarding the weight comparison between the 981 and 718. It just so happens I am currently compiling a comparative report on the 981 Cayman GTS PDK and the 718 Cayman GTS PDK.
 
I have the following respective weights listed below taken from the handbooks.
 
981 Cayman GTS PDK
Kerb Weight DIN: 1370kg - 1440kg depending upon specification.
 
718 Cayman GTS PDK
 
Kerb Weight DIN: 1420kg - 1490kg depending upon specification.
 
The 718 is 50kgs heavier than the 981 on a like for like basis.
 
Brian 

 
I’ll check my last corner weighting measurements when I get home at the weekend but I am pretty sure my 981S PDK, 14 way seats, lighter manifolds, 3.8 v 3.4 engine, motors in the mirrors and headlights was 1435kg DIN basis, some 200kg lighter than my old 997 PDK GTS which was a porky 1628kg.
 
Just to make sure on terminology, my weights above were with fluids (~90% fuel), no driver or luggage i.e. DIN
 
Ralph

Modified Register - Asst RS
modified@porscheclubgb.com
R15 Devon
12 - RSRTC
Brian_Innes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/19 14:32:39 (permalink)
Ralph,
 
The respective weights I have posted are from the handbook Kerb Weight DIN values.
 
They will likely differ from your definitive corner weighting measurements, although I would expect the values to fall within the range quoted in the handbook. 
 
Brian 
post edited by BJ Innes - 2019/06/19 15:00:16

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
2016 718 Cayman S PDK
2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual

ralphmusic
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/19 15:19:22 (permalink)
BJ Innes
Ralph,
 
The respective weights I have posted are from the handbook Kerb Weight DIN values.
 
They will likely differ from your definitive corner weighting measurements, although I would expect the values to fall within the range quoted in the handbook. 
 
Brian 




Brian,
 
Understand but I was taken by how little my weight exceeded handbook lowest weight given all the electric motors and PDK I have. Anyway I’ll revert when I get home.

Modified Register - Asst RS
modified@porscheclubgb.com
R15 Devon
12 - RSRTC
Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/23 17:55:02 (permalink)
A lot of online chat has been made out of AP's comment that:
 
One thing we learned from the last GT4 is a lot of people couldn’t get one. Now we’re really proud enthusiasts can buy the car, rather than write letters. We’re not limited in a way, we will have a longer production run than before, and we wanted to keep it in the same price range.
 
It's a GT car, so can we expect that - although 718 production could be extended until 2022 or 2023 - supply will meet demand? On past performance I think that's unlikely, but if sufficient build-slots become available it's always a possibility. Although I don't have any figures to hand, my impression is that Porsche are producing more GT3s than they have in the past?
 
Jeff

987.2 Cayman S
North Beds (R10 & R24)
ralphmusic
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 08:11:22 (permalink)
A video, albeit not with Mr GT3 - it is in English...
 

 
 

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Twinfan
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 08:19:03 (permalink)
MotorheadAlthough I don't have any figures to hand, my impression is that Porsche are producing more GT3s than they have in the past?

 
Indeed they are Jeff, quite a lot more I believe.  There will be plenty of GT4s coming IMHO.
Dylan1
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 09:01:17 (permalink)
At the porsche factory tour last week there seemed to be a number of GT3 on the line 

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Twinfan
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 09:47:49 (permalink)
Yep, there are the final GT3RSs coming to the UK soon and RoW has been receiving regular deliveries for a while.
Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 11:24:00 (permalink)
ralphmusic
A video, albeit not with Mr GT3 - it is in English...
 
a considerable
 
 




Thanks for that Ralph. A remarkably frank discussion, including the future of IC-engined GT cars with EVs in the ascendancy.
 
Confirmation that the GT group never considered using the F-4 turbo engine, although I'm not sure that I agree with Utz's statement that the GTS engine is at its limit.
 
Although it's based on the 9A2 Evo engine, a considerable amount of reworking was required to produce the n/a engine and meet the current Euro 6d-Temp emission standard and possibly the forthcoming Euro 7 standard too. I'm sure that Porsche will be looking to capitalise on its significant investment, confirming that the F-6 engined Caymans and Boxsters we've seen running around will be announced within the next year; and there's always a possibility that it will find its way into a version of the 992.
 
My own opinion is that this engine's a significant development for Porsche and is the stand-out feature in the new GT4, which apart from the updated aero essentially is 981 carry-over with an appropriate chassis revamp. More power; more revs; and some people are still moaning. It was never going to be a detuned GT3 engine - get real people.!
 
Although it's possible we'll be seeing production ramped-up in comparison with the 981, I'm not totally convinced that the new car will be flying off the shelves like the old car which had a significant pent-up anticipation factor, making it a very difficult act to follow. The 981 was a comparative bargain at ~£65k, but £75k plus a possible 10% Brexit tax (~£6k+ on the base price) - not to mention the significant £1,815 first year car tax - makes the 718 GT4 a much less attractive proposition for first time buyers let alone for those trading-in/up.
 
Jeff

987.2 Cayman S
North Beds (R10 & R24)
Twinfan
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 11:39:23 (permalink)
I agree Jeff.  As I've mentioned on PH, I would be looking at trading my 981 GTS (trade value around £45k) plus £47k to get the spec I would want and including the first year road tax.  Add in a £9k Brexit tax and I'd be over £100k.  I know for a fact I won't get £55k+ more enjoyment out of a 718 GT4 vs my 981 CGTS!
 
I think once people do the figures and realise there's very little flipping potential, and that a used GT3 can be bought for similar money, demand will drop substantially.
 
I think reviews of the car once it's been driven will be very enlightening.  The new engine is limited in torque due to the manual gearbox limit so the extra 35bhp power is right at the top of the curve.  It'll make the engine a bit more exiting when revving it compared to the 981, but for a lot of the time it'll feel identical.  I'm looking forward to hearing what the journos think of it.
Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 12:10:19 (permalink)
I'm with you all the way there Dave. A similar situation for me, although I'd probably be satisfied with something like a £90k package but would be lucky to get £25k for my ageing but low mileage and well-spec'd 987.2 CS.
 
Only time will tell if the wait has been worthwhile, but I have to say that there are always punters out there who've got to have the latest shiny thing and have money in their pockets to burn.! It'll make the used 981 GT4 market interesting over the next 12-months.
 
Jeff
 
 

987.2 Cayman S
North Beds (R10 & R24)
Brian_Innes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 14:48:50 (permalink)
ralphmusic
A video, albeit not with Mr GT3 - it is in English...
 

 
 


 
Ralph,
 
Thank you for posting this excellent and revealing interview with GT Cars Project Manager Herr Utz on the thinking behind the new 718 GT4. I'm in agreement with Jeff about disputing Utz's statement on the current 718 GTS 2.5 turbo engine being at the limit of its power output potential. There are already a couple of very reputable tuning specialists offering 430bhp - 510Nm upgrades to the existing flat-4 turbo for a very reasonable cost. I'm sure that in the fullness of time even higher outputs will reliably achieved from the 4 cylinder turbo engine. I'll wager that the current 718 2.5 Cayman S/GTS will be the modifiers car of choice in years ahead.   
 
Be that as it may, I think the new GT4 will be a hugely satisfying car to drive. It's also good that the current Sports PASM as fitted to my own 2019 718 Cayman GTS has been further developed by lowering it another 10mm to 30mm lower. This, together with the other GT4 suspension developments, will ensure the car is going to be a masterful track day machine. I'll also be interested to see if the new Michelin Cup 2 R tyres are fitted on the GT4. I recently heard from a Michelin source that they have been developing a new version of the Cup 2 for a forthcoming Porsche GT car. Could the new GT4 be that car?
 
It will also be interesting to see how the retail market reacts to this new GT4. The fact there is no PDK option available (yet?), may cause some prospective owners to hold back for now. If I were in the market for this particular GT4, which sadly I am not, I would certainly be waiting for the PDK version to come along. One thing is certain, the new 4.0 litre engine appears to be a magnificent unit, and the higher 8000 rpm rev limit will please all true driving enthusiasts.
 
This new GT4 is designed and targeted at the experienced track day driver, and as a result may not be quite so attractive a proposition to those owners who do not do track days. With the ever increasing restrictions on public road driving, it must be increasingly difficult to justify owning a car such as the GT4 if you don't do track days.
 
As already pointed out by David and Jeff, the substantial leap in cost over the current 981 GT4 may well limit sales to all but the most determined punter.
 
I am also eagerly awaiting the magazine journalists reviews of driving this new 4.0 Cayman GT4. I'm anticipating a 5 star result.
 
Brian                      
 
      
 

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
2016 718 Cayman S PDK
2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual

Twinfan
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 15:02:32 (permalink)
I think by 'GTS' engine, he's referring to the 3.8ltr unit from the 991.1 911, which would be the engine from the 981 GT4 with the X51 upgrade.  This would likely be the best that engine can do in terms of output without major investment and it didn't go far enough to overcome the emissions and particulate needs of the 718 GT4.
 
PDK is coming late next year, there have been screen grabs of Porsche systems to support this.
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 16:15:20 (permalink)
Twinfan
I think by 'GTS' engine, he's referring to the 3.8ltr unit from the 991.1 911, which would be the engine from the 981 GT4 with the X51 upgrade.  This would likely be the best that engine can do in terms of output without major investment and it didn't go far enough to overcome the emissions and particulate needs of the 718 GT4.



He is definitely talking about the 718 GTS..... wouldn't make any sense that he is talking about the 991.1 GTS, when he didn't mention 911 - and also that, that 911 is 2 cycles old. He specifically says ..'the 4-cylinder was with the GTS version nearly on its highest level of output'
 
Twinfan
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 16:20:41 (permalink)
Apologies, I've listened again and you're right.  I thought he was still talking about the 981's 991.1 Carrera S engine and compared the 991.1 GTS engine.  But he wasn't!
Brian_Innes
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 16:59:38 (permalink)
I was sure Utz was referring to the 718 GTS engine as the comment followed chat on the four-cylinder turbo.
 
It is my opinion that Herr Utz was being diplomatic here. He is after all is said and done a Porsche employee, and needs to stay on-message regarding the brand's core products. It is now common knowledge that the GT cars division are not exactly fans of the four-cylinder turbo. If I recall correctly, the boss, Andreas Preuninger has already been quoted as saying something along the lines of "we are not four-cylinder people". With the flat-4 turbo being so despised in the motoring press following the launch of the 718, and the GT division's statements about listening to its customers, it is entirely understandable that a flat-6 normally aspirated engine is installed in the new GT4. Personally, if I'm being honest, I regret that, but that's just me. 
 
Brian          
 
                

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
2016 718 Cayman S PDK
2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual

Motorhead
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Re: 718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.! 2019/06/24 16:59:43 (permalink)
Utz's comment does seem odd given the well known "tunability" of turbo engines, although long-term durability on a highly-tuned engine would have to be a major consideration for the manufacturer.
 
Maybe the limitation is more due to the torque limitation of the manual transmission. As I noted previously, the GT4 and GTS engines share the same max torque figure of 420Nm. Surely, no coincidence?
 
Jeff

987.2 Cayman S
North Beds (R10 & R24)
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