Could the 718 replacement be an EV?

[Motorhead]

You will have heard the surprising news that Porsche's best selling car, the Macan, will be a full electric vehicle only when the next generation arrives in 2021. Apparently there won't be a fuel-burning option.

One interesting thing to note is that, according to PH, Porsche CEO Oliver Blume is quoted as saying:

"....over the next ten years we will focus on a drive mix consisting of even further optimised petrol engines, plug-in hybrid models, and purely electrically operated sports cars."

My take on it is that we're more likely to see a hybrid mid-engine car before a full-blown EV - probably based upon 992 architecture - but it's rather suspicious that unless I'm mistaken, we haven't yet seen any 718 replacement mules running around. In some ways it would be logical for Porsche to use the mid-engine platform to develop the technology and to test consumer appetite before applying the technology to the precious 911-line.

Interesting times.!

Jeff

 

[MrDemon]

UK cannot produce enough electricity to make 40 millions electric cars viable.

we have to burn Gas to make electric atm !!! it's a bit of a joke.

either that or we buy in French Nuclear power , which is made in Belgium !!!

We will see Hybrids, but as it stands I cannot see how electric cars will help or work.

 

[Motorhead]

I'm really surprised that Porsche are commiting to such a drastic (and risky?) step with their best selling vehicle D, especially since the necessary infrastructure development seems to me to be lagging behind the pace of manufacturers' EV development.

Maybe they're focusing on the important Chinese market where there's a massive push for EVs ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46745472 ), but closer to home this could dent UK/EU sales for a while. Of course, much will depend upon charge times and range and Porsche marketing should by now have a good understanding of their SUV's typical usage.

As with all EVs, I'd be concerned about used values further down the line where owners may have to park kerb-side rather than in their drive or garage where an electrical supply is available.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

You will have heard the surprising news that Porsche's best selling car, the Macan, will be a full electric vehicle only when the next generation arrives in 2021. Apparently there won't be a fuel-burning option.

One interesting thing to note is that, according to PH, Porsche CEO Oliver Blume is quoted as saying:

"....over the next ten years we will focus on a drive mix consisting of even further optimised petrol engines, plug-in hybrid models, and purely electrically operated sports cars."

My take on it is that we're more likely to see a hybrid mid-engine car before a full-blown EV - probably based upon 992 architecture - but it's rather suspicious that unless I'm mistaken, we haven't yet seen any 718 replacement mules running around. In some ways it would be logical for Porsche to use the mid-engine platform to develop the technology and to test consumer appetite before applying the technology to the precious 911-line.

Interesting times.!

Jeff

Jeff, Greg Kable a German motor industry journalist tweeted that he was told that there would still be petrol engines Macans produced after 2021.

 

[Motorhead]

A-ha! More journalistic fake news then Ralph? Kacher's information would seem to be more credible.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

A-ha! More journalistic fake news then Ralph? Kacher's information would seem to be more credible.

Jeff

I’ll raise you a journalist!

 

[Ray]

Hydrogen cars for the future?

 

[Brian_Innes]

My opinion on the future of the 718 has been influenced by the introduction of the 992 modular chassis platform. The Porsche launch blurb mentioned the versatility of the 992 platform to accommodate both rear-engine/electric, and mid-engine/electric, sports cars of the future.

The 718 chassis is narrower and more compact than the 992, and for that reason may struggle to accommodate an electric/IC hybrid power plant, while still retaining enough space for 2 passengers and their luggage. I know for my own experience of long distance touring with the 718, that luggage space is at a premium even with only the driver on board.

It is therefor probable that the 718 platform will in time not too distant, fade away with the demise of the IC engine as the sole means of propulsion. That would be a great shame in my option. The compact footprint and resulting dynamic agility of the 718 Cayman/Boxster is its most appealing attribute. The 992 by contrast is a bulky beast, which when driven on the sort of roads that are my favourite routes, makes it very hard work indeed. Especially when meeting other traffic coming in the opposite direction on narrow country lanes. For that reason alone, point to point, a well driven 718 Cayman has the upper hand over the 992 on such roads.

So to summarise, Porsche will probably discontinue the 718 range in favour of the 992 propulsion versatile modular platform. The subsequent revised entry level sports cars will therefor be more bulky and heavier than the current IC propelled cars. More's the pity.

My hope is that this move is some way off in the future. Currently motor manufacturers are ahead of political governments, both local and national, who are not investing sufficiently in the essential infrastructure to support widespread electric vehicle use. You could say that very sophisticated carts are being put in front of old, very tired horses.

Brian

 

[ralphmusic]

My opinion on the future of the 718 has been influenced by the introduction of the 992 modular chassis platform. The Porsche launch blurb mentioned the versatility of the 992 platform to accommodate both rear-engine/electric, and mid-engine/electric, sports cars of the future.

The 718 chassis is narrower and more compact than the 992, and for that reason may struggle to accommodate an electric/IC hybrid power plant, while still retaining enough space for 2 passengers and their luggage. I know for my own experience of long distance touring with the 718, that luggage space is at a premium even with only the driver on board.

It is therefor probable that the 718 platform will in time not too distant, fade away with the demise of the IC engine as the sole means of propulsion. That would be a great shame in my option. The compact footprint and resulting dynamic agility of the 718 Cayman/Boxster is its most appealing attribute. The 992 by contrast is a bulky beast, which when driven on the sort of roads that are my favourite routes, makes it very hard work indeed. Especially when meeting other traffic coming in the opposite direction on narrow country lanes. For that reason alone, point to point, a well driven 718 Cayman has the upper hand over the 992 on such roads.

So to summarise, Porsche will probably discontinue the 718 range in favour of the 992 propulsion versatile modular platform. The subsequent revised entry level sports cars will therefor be more bulky and heavier than the current IC propelled cars. More's the pity.

My hope is that this move is some way off in the future. Currently motor manufacturers are ahead of political governments, both local and national, who are not investing sufficiently in the essential infrastructure to support widespread electric vehicle use. You could say that very sophisticated carts are being put in front of old, very tired horses.

Brian

Brian,

You’ve not seen how much luggage my wife needs and it all fits in my Cayman!

 

[GrahamW]

The 718 chassis is narrower and more compact than the 992, and for that reason may struggle to accommodate an electric/IC hybrid power plant, while still retaining enough space for 2 passengers and their luggage. I know for my own experience of long distance touring with the 718, that luggage space is at a premium even with only the driver on board.

Brian,

You’ve not seen how much luggage my wife needs and it all fits in my Cayman!

We easily get enough luggage in our 718 Boxster, 2 cases and a soft bag with room to spare for our tours of Europe. Makes me wonder what Brian packs?

 

[Brian_Innes]

Hands up, I am guilty as charged of taking far too much stuff with me on my long distance tours. For example, on my 14 day trip to Germany last year I had to use the passenger footwell for walking boots etc, in addition to the two luggage compartments which were packed full.

The main point of my comment on luggage space was to illustrate the likelihood of Porsche using the 992 modular chassis for the next entry level EV/hybrid. Having inspected the underside of my 718 GTS up on the ramp recently, the engine/transaxle areas are already a very packed place. If you add the requirements of electrical propulsion systems to the existing 718 body shell, I cannot see where this can be accommodated other than compromising luggage space from somewhere. Thus my comment on space being at a premium.

Brian

 

[Motorhead]

Returning to my original point about a Cayman EV I'm sure packaging the batteries would be a challenge but I suspect that the electric motor, transmission and controls would be more compact and lighter than the IC unit with its bulky cooling system. Distributing the battery mass could be a problem but most EVs seem to incorporate the batteries low in the chassis which would very much suit a mid-engine (mid-motor?) sports car layout. I wouldn't think that the car would need to be any bigger than the current 718.

I still think it more likely that we'll see a hybrid Cayman before a full EV though.

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

Jeff,

I agree a hybrid Cayman is a more likely precursor to a full EV edition. But returning to the packaging problem, it will be difficult to accommodate both an IC power plant and electric propulsion units together in the existing 718 platform.

For that reason, Porsche may utilise the 992 platform for a hybrid Cayman. This brings with it the disadvantage of a much larger road footprint and a bulkier, heavier car. Batteries and electric motors need cooling just like the IC engine does.

Brian

 

[Motorhead]

Brian,

I'm in broad agreement with you on your comments, especially the need to air (?) cool batteries and electric motor which could be challenging for rear a motor location. As with the 987 and 981/718-series cars where only the structure up to the A-pillar was common between the mid and rear-engine cars, I suspect that would be the case for any Cayman replacement; so they may not necessarily need to use such a lardy back end as the 992.!

I understand that the latest 8-speed PDK transmission used in the 992 has a space inside which can be used for a motor-generator, so there's only a requirement to package a battery pack - though granted that in itself will demand some creative use of the limited available space even if only mild hybridisation is used.

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

Well maybe not a full EV, but it looks as though hybrid versions of the next 718 are on the way:

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/porsche-ceo-next-718-cars-will-get-hybrid-option/39861

And with a flat-4 turbo together with an integrated electric motor within the automatic gearbox too, signalling the death knell for both the n/a F-6 engine and manual transmission in the mid-engine cars..!

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

Jeff,

I think you are spot-on with your above assumption on the death knell of the n/a flat-6 and manual gearboxes in future mid-engined Porsches. The gearbox integrated electric motor idea may be the saviour of the 718 platform regarding short term hybrid development. I still think a full electric sports coupe may require the larger, bulkier 992 platform.

Speaking as a converted fan of the 2.5 flat-4 turbo engine, I am still holding out the hope, however forlorn, that before Porsche embark on the full electric or hybrid route, a beefed-up version of the 2.5 718 Cayman will be launched. Everything I've read about the new 718 GT4 fawns over the re-introduction of a naturally aspirated flat-6 engine. However likely this will indeed turn out to be the case, I for one will lament the decision by Porsche not to exploit the full potential of the flat-4 turbo engine in the Cayman. A 480bhp/500nm 2.7 4-pot turbo in the 718 GT4 would be a positively sensational car.

Sadly, Porsche seem to have given way to noisy traditionalist lobbying, rather than exploit the mouth-watering potential of the 4-pot turbo.

Brian

 

[Ray]

Jeff,

I think you are spot-on with your above assumption on the death knell of the n/a flat-6 and manual gearboxes in future mid-engined Porsches. The gearbox integrated electric motor idea may be the saviour of the 718 platform regarding short term hybrid development. I still think a full electric sports coupe may require the larger, bulkier 992 platform.

Speaking as a converted fan of the 2.5 flat-4 turbo engine, I am still holding out the hope, however forlorn, that before Porsche embark on the full electric or hybrid route, a beefed-up version of the 2.5 718 Cayman will be launched. Everything I've read about the new 718 GT4 fawns over the re-introduction of a naturally aspirated flat-6 engine. However likely this will indeed turn out to be the case, I for one will lament the decision by Porsche not to exploit the full potential of the flat-4 turbo engine in the Cayman. A 480bhp/500nm 2.7 4-pot turbo in the 718 GT4 would be a positively sensational car.

Sadly, Porsche seem to have given way to noisy traditionalist lobbying, rather than exploit the mouth-watering potential of the 4-pot turbo.

Brian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YCLvZ1bA6Q

If this has anything to go by could it be sales related?

Ray

 

[Peter_Bull]

Sadly, Porsche seem to have given way to noisy traditionalist lobbying, rather than exploit the mouth-watering potential of the 4-pot turbo.

Brian

Would these be the same noisy traditionalists that saved the 911 form being history in the 1980's?? [][]

 

[Brian_Innes]

In the current edition of Autocar magazine, Porsche Chairman, Oliver Blume, has been giving details of the the future development pathway designated for current 718 Boxster and Cayman models. A full electric Boxster and Cayman is currently being developed for launch in 2022.

Also under consideration are mild-hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions using the current flat-4 turbo engines.

The mild-hybrid version will use a disc-shaped electric motor housed within the 992 PDK gearbox to provide an additional performance boost for the flat-4t engine. This version will not however provide electric only propulsion.

The plug-in hybrid uses the same disc-shaped electric motor in combination with the flat-4t engine, but is built around a battery of sufficient capacity to provide extended electric only running.

This is good news. In an earlier post I was fearful that the 718 platform would be scrapped in favour of the lardy 992 modular platform. According to the Porsche Chairman, this is clearly not the intention of current development.

So, if Oliver Blume's statement is borne through to fruition, it seems the doom-sayers who would take great delight in seeing the 718 consigned to the scrap heap are going to be disappointed.

The "Poor Man's 911" is likely to be with us for a few years yet. I for one, am happy about that.

Brian

 

[ChrisW]

The poor mans 911 is not a Porsche.

It's an MX5 ....

Mine is doing 45mpg in normal driving and it doesn't need plugging in.

Making big cars electric is no way to save the planet ... for a start there is no road map for the required Ev in the UK.

Hammond will be bringing Euro7 diesels back next ...

(Sorry David !)