Would I regret it???

[turbo jonny]

Well said that man. If the 964 RS is the car of choice for the likes of Walter Rorhl and 911s for countless other great drivers,
lets not call it a jumped up beetle! and the watercooled 997GT3 is one of the greatest cars built by Porsche, although as fun road cars
i prefer the air cooled turbos. That said i would have another 944 in a heartbeat if i had space - no snobbery in my garage.

 

[TTM]

Scott
You are welcome to call me a cucumber if you want ;-)

 

[pauly]

Looks like there's over 300 996's on PH so there's plenty of choice.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Exactly, and what you will find is that many of the cars are in superb condition. I know of someone selling a 996 with GTS bodykit and a replacement engine for £18K. Lots of ppl are claiming these cheap 996's are dogs but the fact is this is what they are worth and you will probably struggle to find more then a couple 944 turbos in similar condition. A dog of a 996 is more like £13K to £14K and I think a fair few ppl are taken by the idea of finding a puka but dead engine 996 for £10K or less and then getting a Hartech (3.8 ?) rebuilt motor in there. I certainly would.

 

[944 LIL]

Lee

go for both

£2k seems to buy you the answer

http://www.jhmbuttco.com/acatalog/Shop_2_Post__Mechanical__363.html

Wish I had a garage !

 

[Fen]

I largely agree with Thom, except that I appreciate the older 911. Not because it's a performance tool (it's only passably quick after all), but because of the whole experience. I just don't see the point of a 996 as for me if you want a "911" but you don't want offset, floor-hinged pedals, crazy ergonimics etc. then you don't want a 911 at all. Of course that is just my opinion.

I also woudn't necessarily advocate buying an older 911 (by which I mean proper torsion sprung ones) as they are very likely an expensive rust repair waiting to be done -one which makes 944 sills look positively cheap.

As an aside, aren't M-series BMWs built in a special factory which is far removed from the cooking models?

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: 944 LIL

Lee

go for both

£2k seems to buy you the answer

http://www.jhmbuttco.com/acatalog/Shop_2_Post__Mechanical__363.html

Wish I had a garage !

That's a coincidence, been looking at mini hydraulic lifts they start aound £1300.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey
I know of someone selling a 996 with GTS bodykit and a replacement engine for £18K.

Replacement engine eh, why was that needed then ?.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Warranty job from OPC apparently. Very common practise these days in the industry they can't be bothered to do complicated rebuilds/fixes so the engines are replaced. I did hear that dead motors are crated off to Germany for inspection but this was just something I heard.

Baz Hartech for example has been a bit of a pioneer in trying to get to the bottom of understanding the problems with these engines, and not to paraphrase him but I think he said in many cases a fix/rebuild can be done for far less then the £10K you hear banded around for a replacement engine.

Lets put it another way, 5 years ago I was at a Porsche specialist that had a 944 S2 that had slipped the cam belt and the repair cost was going to be way higher then the cost of fitting a replacement motor from the scrappers. A few of the guys on here have had their turbo engines go pop as well for various reasons so its not like our 4 pot motors are immune.

 

[333pg333]

Well I'm not sure if you've stated what itch you want this 911 to scratch? Is it just going to be your dd or are you wanting to take it to the track? If it's just a treat and you're spoiling yourself with a nice 'newish' road car, then are you planning on making the 944 a trackrat? Not from what I can read. So are you going to have 2 cars to do the same thing? Unlikely. Someone suggested hiring a 996 for a few days. I think this is a good idea. You might come out of that weekend and thank your lucky stars that you hadn't sold the 944 after all. Or conversely it might galvanise your decision and you can proceed.
From what I read and hear, the 996 is susceptible to engine failure. My Porsche trained mechanic told me this some while ago and even though I can't remember the tech reasons, it made me surprised at how Porsche could design something with engine flaws like this.
Then again, sometimes you just have to lash out and do it and decide later if that was the right thing to do. Good luck.

 

[pauly]

A guy I spoke to had a 968 and loved it, he then had a 996 for a while but sold it to buy a 993, he still talks about his 968 but the 996 seems to be forgoten.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: pauly

 A guy I spoke to had a 968 and loved it, he then had a 996 for a while but sold it  to buy a 993, he still talks about his 968 but the 996 seems to be forgoten.

Yep, they are lovely to live with which is why I am very happy to own one. Basically it is like an S2 +1 which is great because I like the S2 anyway. The best thing about the 968 is that I struggle to see anyways in which it is less good then the S2 and its all the little things such as the lower wind noise at speed and lower noise from rear tyres/suspension that ppl don't tend to mention so much, all help to add up to a much nicer car.

Only downside is that they do and will rust much like our 44's, its just that 68 owners haven't been exposed to these problems as much as us. My own car has surface rust on the inside and rust in various seams that is young enough that touch wood, I should be able to catch it.

The advice about hiring a 996 is superb. There have been a fair few cars that I thought would be really great but turned out to be very dissapointing.

 

[Fen]

Interesting comments regarding the 968 road/tyre noise, Neil. I'm intrigued as to how that can be as it's, how can I put this, the same as the S2, isn't it?

In terms of the 996 engine problems I think there is a hot spot in the block and at low engine speeds such as are experienced in traffic there is localised overheating which over time can lead to failure.

Is it a 996 you want, Lee?

 

[TTM]

Fen, I believe cars built from the 1991 model year featured a bit more sound proofing that the older ones, so that would include the latest turbo/S2 and all 968 Lux.
From what I can remember of the various '90 and '91 turbo of friends I had the opprotunity to drive the later ones felt a bit heavier and more silent, though I have no technical evidence to back this up.

PS : fancy founding a vegetables club with Yours Sincerely ? ;-)

 

[pauly]

I saw a picture of a 968 with the headlamps up and it did look just wrong, but I still think if Porsche had sold it as a 3.0, 8 valve turbo, it would have been an amazing car.

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: TTM

PS : fancy founding a vegetables club with Yours Sincerely ? ;-)

PCGB Overseas Legumes?

 

[Lemon]

ORIGINAL: Fen

Interesting comments regarding the 968 road/tyre noise, Neil. I'm intrigued as to how that can be as it's, how can I put this, the same as the S2, isn't it?

In terms of the 996 engine problems I think there is a hot spot in the block and at low engine speeds such as are experienced in traffic there is localised overheating which over time can lead to failure.

Is it a 996 you want, Lee?

Hi Fen

It is not that I particularly want a 996, I love the look of the 993 RS which is ultimately what I would really want, but unfortunately the piggy bank is nowhere near that deep.

I had started looking a month or so back at a 993's with factory RS kits on with hard backed seats etc, in fact a lovely one came up locally (2 miles from my house) which I had never spotted on the road before. It sold very quickly.

When I sat in one it did feel strange at first with the pedal layout etc, the 944 has just spoilt me with its modern feel, which is crazy for such an old design[]

I only started looking at 996's after a very resonable insurance quote from Hagarty's and although we hear the doom and gloom of engine failure, regular servicing appears cheaper than my Turbo.

The car I looked at last week was a 996 C2 with GT3 Kit, sports exhaust and hard backed seats and was in very good condition. 80,000 miles and is around the £16,000 mark. Although I am not a fan of the headlights it just seemed a bargain and sounded fab[]

But it would have to be a good example for me to part with the 44 as it is in such good nic.

 

[Fen]

Clearly it's your choice, but for my money the 993 and the 996 are completely different cars and you may as well say "I'd really like an M3, but they're a bit steep so I'm looking at a 540i".

The lack of modern feel is exactly what I like about the (real) 911, so we clearly have different requirements. The 996 however leaves me cold. It isn't as bad as a Boxster and when I drove the 2001 model range at Thruxton the C2 manual was the only car that was even close to fun, but it was no bind whatsoever to get into my Turbo for the drive home. Time hasn't been kind to the 996 either. When you see a poverty spec one (usually in silver) don't they just look sad to you? OK the GT3 kit improves things, but then isn't it truly sad to pretend a poverty spec C2 is a GT3?

I guess I can see the 996 might be a pleasant car to use as a DD - in the same way I think a recent Mondeo would be.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: TTM

Fen, I believe cars built from the 1991 model year featured a bit more sound proofing that the older ones, so that would include the latest turbo/S2 and all 968 Lux.
From what I can remember of the various '90 and '91 turbo of friends I had the opprotunity to drive the later ones felt a bit heavier and more silent, though I have no technical evidence to back this up.

PS : fancy founding a vegetables club with Yours Sincerely ? ;-)

Not just that, the door rubbers totally different and form a flush seal like on modern cars, the rear quarter windows are more flush and the aero mirrors allegedly create much less noise. The door cards are different but haven't taken one off to compare. The S2 isn't to noisy of you leave the suspension and exhaust standard but that is pretty boring because from what I can remember all you can hear at 70 is wind noise and some tyre noise. In the 968 there is much less wind noise and a nice burble from the exhaust. So OK they aren't big differences but they create a much nicer overall impression.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: pauly

I saw a picture of a 968 with the headlamps up and it did look just wrong, but I still think if Porsche had sold it as a 3.0, 8 valve turbo, it would have been an amazing car.

I felt the same but trust me it grows on you. I wouldn't change them for pop ups, but when I go into the garage the cleaner front end on the S2 looks really nice. I think most of us agree that the ultimate look would have been S2/turbo front and 968 from the cabin back.