Winter tyres

[Craigybaby]

Didn't manage to sell my 16in cup 1s, so now I'm thinking of keeping them and fitting with winter tyres as car is going to be in regular use for the foreseeable future. My mate Steve says they're cheaper now than in winter, supply and demand and all that, so im starting looking, so wondering if anyone has any recommendations please? Cheers

 

[Veerzigzag]

I use Event Tyres, good prices and efficient service. They currently have some good pricing on Bridgestone Blizzaks, which work well in the snow and ice IMHO.

 

[GlennS]

I am not sure I agree with your mate Steve. I looked recently to get an indicative price for one of my other cars and found them to be more expensive than normal. There IS a sweet spot to buy them, usually late Autumn, when the tyre vendors are pushing new stock but just before the winter panic buying kicks in. Mid-summer doesn't seem to be good price-wise.

I like Bridgestone Blizzaks.

 

[benjj]

I usually use Mytyres.

I run a set of winters on 15'' cookie cutters on my 944. I went for the Yokohama W.Drive tyres and they're really very good. V rated too.

I'm no stranger to high silicon tyres having learned to drive in the Austrian Alps in a BMW E30 and the ones I like (and use) at the moment are the Yokohamas mentioned above, Falken Eurowinter HS439 on my daily driver BMW and Vredestein Wintracs on the wife's Golf.

 

[Paul 290T]

I've got Goodyear Ultragrip 8 Performance on my daily driver. They're not just better than summer tyres in snow and ice, when the temperature is low they are better in the wet too.

 

[Copperman05]

I'm not sure I see the benefit of winter tyres, at least in the SE. Do you see alot of snow? Or have to use the car in ALL conditions? A recent test by EVO mag saw that summers tyres performed better than winters in cold wet and cold dry conditions. I have the article somewhere. Obviously in snow or ice the winter tyres were in a league of there own. If the car is essential in winter I can see why some like the insurance they give to be able to be used in all conditions, but if you dont they are not cheap for something that is only really needed in snow?


Edd

 

[944 man]

Scientific test or subjective test?

 

[Copperman05]

They used objective and subjective tests. The Conti TS850 tyres won the test, although even these were beaten by Conti summer tyres in cold dry tests on road and track, and wet road tests. Evo were surprised re this, they put it down to a very grippy surface helping put heat into the summer tyres. Alot I should guess will depend on the summer tyre used, I know my Ad08's whilst far from dangerous in cold conditions feel like having completely different rubber on the wheels when compared to there performance once warmed up.


Edd

 

[Craigybaby]

I can see your point edd, had a look last night and looks like at least £400 for 4 (suppose you could say "what were you expecting") and Sod's law we won't get any snow this winter. Looks like I will be using the car all winter for nursery runs at least, but I think we had about 3-4 weeks of snow in Leeds last winter so it's a lot of hassle/expense for little use. Think I've talked myself out of it.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

We put winters on our Legacy two years ago after getting stranded in heavy snow on Sport Contacts.

They aren't snow tyres, but on the bit of snow we did have this year were significantly better. Not Defender-good, just a bit better.

Winter tyres are designed to be a season-round cold-weather tyre. Whilst the early morning and evening rush hour work trips were in lower temps, the difference was very significant indeed. Wet weather performance was in a different league, we've run Legacies for at leat ten years now and wish we'd done it before.

I paid £120 for a set of wheels, and £280 for 4 cheapish-brand tyres. I think they've been on for about 7 or 8 months, so probably 10K miles in total, and aren't wearing at all. Well worth the money IMO.

 

[zcacogp]

Edd,

I thought similarly to you until I drove a car with winter tyres on it (in Iceland, one November). I had no benchmark to compare it with, but was astonished how well it did in compacted snow and ice.

This video is worth watching (only five minutes long), and they have both subjective and scientific tests, in conditions of both compacted snow and on a cold and wet (but not icy) road. It's pretty convincing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elP_34ltdWI

However, despite this, I still don't put winter tyres on my S2 because I don't drive it enough in winter. Yes it's my only car, year-round, but I live in London and, although the benefit would be real, the distance travelled doesn't make it worth it. And that's before you start wondering where to store the unused set of wheels.


Oli.

 

[Copperman05]

I dont doubt the effectiveness in the right conditions, what I do doubt is that most will see the kind of weather often enough to make the purchase of winter tyres worthwhile. If you drive for a living and must have transport in all weathers then yes, if you do not summer tyres do ok in all but the worst conditions, when that happens leave the car at home.



Edd

 

[pauljmcnulty]

what I do doubt is that most will see the kind of weather often enough to make the purchase of winter tyres worthwhile

The crossover point where the winters stop having an advantage is about 7 degrees. For a large part of the winter the morning and evening temps are below that, so if you just do the daily commute they are worth it for a good 3 or 4 months easily. It's important not to think of them as snow tyres, they are a different thing completely and wouldn't be worth it for the few days we could use them here.

Of course, you're only using, and wearing out, one set at a time so there is no extra cost than the initial purchase. I think it's well worth it on the car as it's used every day, but don't bother with the van as I won't go out if it's that cold myself, lol!

 

[zcacogp]

Edd,

I hear what you say but was surprised by how the much advantage winter tyres have over summer even in remarkably benign conditions. The second half of the video shows a 20% improvement in braking distance on a wet road at around 6DegC. That's significant, and 6DegC is not that cold - certainly a temperature you'd commonly find during autumn and spring as well as winter.

I can certainly see the benefits. And - to be honest - am considering whether I should consider a set as well, despite living in London and only doing a small mileage a year. Storage still remains an issue tho'.


Oli.

 

[os951]

Winters here in Finland are similar than in Sweden (where that video was filmed). I must say, even i live in the southern part of the country, driving in winter with summer tires would be lethal.

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
The crossover point where the winters stop having an advantage is about 7 degrees.

Good marketing speel? The EVO test seems to contrast the Autoexpress one re which is better in cold wet condtions. I still feel the summer tyres will have the edge in cold dry condtions too. If the winters are better in the wet cold, then I am also convinced the summer tyres will be streets ahead once things start to warm up (and winters are still being used), which kind of means they cancel each other out in our climate at least.


Edd

 

[benjj]

A lot of people (not those here, naturally!) seem to think that winter tyre performance is a subjective thing.

It is not. Categorically not.

When the temperatures are at an average of 7 degrees C or below then winter tyres perform better in pretty much every measurement: accelerating, braking, turning, hill starts, descents, ascents etc etc etc.

That is all irrespective of weather conditions. Throw in snow, ice, rain and the winter tyres defecate from a great height on any summer or all season tyre.

In most peoples opinion, mine included, and given avg temps of 7 or below I would consider the heirarchy of mobility (I should trademark that!) would be:

4x4 on winter tyres
FWD on winter tyres
4x4 on all season tyres
RWD on winter tyres
FWD on all season tyres
RWD on all season tyres
4x4 on summer tyres
FWD on summer tyres
RWD on summer tyres

As for are they appropriate in the UK, that really depends on where you live and what car you drive day to day.

I live in the Yorkshire Dales. We get proper weather. Most winters we'll have snow on the ground for 20+ days, icy conditions almost daily from Dec-Feb, lots of rain and standing water.

Here is a clip of me testing out my new winter tyres on the 944 this March. This was only 4 months ago! -15C, heavy winds driving the snow across the roads. The clip is me leaving my house and driving the one mile of country lane to the nearest gritted(ish!) road.

It is a horrible road in winter. Adverse camber, a nasty steep 90 degree turn and, going away from my house, a steep descent.

I was pretty pleased with the performance of the Yokohamas.

944 winter tyre test on Youtube

 

[pauljmcnulty]

If the winters are better in the wet cold, then I am also convinced the summer tyres will be streets ahead once things start to warm up

That's it in a nutshell!

In heavy snow they are a bit better, but you really need snow tyres or a proper off-roader.

Very cold dry conditions, or slightly warmer (say 4-7 degrees) wet conditions, winter tyres are a no-brainer. Anyone who's used them would agree.

Once the ordinary tyres get some heat in them, they will be perfectly good. The trouble is, Jane really doesn't get any heat in her tyres on the winter commute, as she doesn't do much hard weaving, or practice grid launches, when she's pottering down to Wycombe at 07:30! []
[]

 

[benjj]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

If the winters are better in the wet cold, then I am also convinced the summer tyres will be streets ahead once things start to warm up

That's it in a nutshell!

In heavy snow they are a bit better, but you really need snow tyres or a proper off-roader.

Very cold dry conditions, or slightly warmer (say 4-7 degrees) wet conditions, winter tyres are a no-brainer. Anyone who's used them would agree.

Once the ordinary tyres get some heat in them, they will be perfectly good. The trouble is, Jane really doesn't get any heat in her tyres on the winter commute, as she doesn't do much hard weaving, or practice grid launches, when she's pottering down to Wycombe at 07:30! []
[]

Paul, I would argue that winter tyres being 'a bit better' in snow is a bit of an understatement! The difference is rather acute to say the least. In proper snow the difference is car works / car doesn't work. That's about as big an effect as you can get. The only thing that stopped my 944 on winter tyres was snow so deep that it beached the car. Everything else it dealt with easily.

As for snow tyres - we don't really have them in the UK as, like sand tyres, they're a one shot deal - deep snow or nothing. In Austria where I grew up and learned to drive people used normal summer or all season rubber from April - October and then winter tyres through winter. Everyone usually had a set of chains in the boot too. My uncle had a set of studded tyres for his E30 M3 but that was a little lairy anyway and he needed all the help he could get to keep it in a straight line up or down an Alp!

Maybe I'm in a bit of a bad mood today but the original comment of "If the winters are better in the wet cold, then I am also convinced the summer tyres will be streets ahead once things start to warm up" is a bit odd. Its like saying "My water skis are better on water but my snow skis are better on snow."

 

[SUSIT]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Edd,

I hear what you say but was surprised by how the much advantage winter tyres have over summer even in remarkably benign conditions. The second half of the video shows a 20% improvement in braking distance on a wet road at around 6DegC. That's significant, and 6DegC is not that cold - certainly a temperature you'd commonly find during autumn and spring as well as winter.

I can certainly see the benefits. And - to be honest - am considering whether I should consider a set as well, despite living in London and only doing a small mileage a year. Storage still remains an issue tho'.


Oli.

i agree and am still running my winter tyres as not had the time to get the tyres changed on the rims