White smoke and power loss *UPDATE*

[TTM]

While a blown headgasket may not necessarily translate into a major loss of boost, yours here may have a huge leak for the engine not to build much boost at all. As said earlier the first thing to do is to check if one or several cylinders have filled up with coolant. I would remove the head right away.

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: TTM . As said earlier the first thing to do is to check if one or several cylinders have filled up with coolant. I would remove the head right away.

why ? [] why on earth would you remove the cylinder head before doing a simple compression test or leak down test to confirm whether or not you have a blown head gasket and where the leak is ? If the OP removes the head and there is no head gasket leak what would you do then???

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: GPF My point is that a compression test may not prove anything either way. You can have a slight HG leak that will not show up as low compression, and you can have low compression for other reasons. Using a compression tester is not a simple verification! Plus, if a load of water has now drained from the cylinder to the sump and you vigorously crank the engine to do 4 compression tests, how far does any water get? What surfaces are now not adequately coated with good oil? Why do you think garages use the test for Hydrocarbons in the coolant?

if there was such a significant amount of water in the cylinders or sump don't you think such a significant coolant loss would be showing in the coolant reservoir ???[] How do you suppose the engine is managing to start and run with all that water in the cylinders ??[][] I give up [] jeez.......[][]

 

[TTM]

Whenever you post something either on here or on RL you sound like the guy who wants to argue just for the sake of it - thanks for giving up.

 

[GPF]

ORIGINAL: peanut if there was such a significant amount of water in the cylinders or sump don't you think such a significant coolant loss would be showing in the coolant reservoir ???[]

Which part of "Check the coolant level" in the first line of my first post did you not understand? []

ORIGINAL: peanut How do you suppose the engine is managing to start and run with all that water in the cylinders ??[][]

Where does he say that it is starting and running?[] As far as I am aware, he hasn't checked anything yet?

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: GPF Where does he say that it is starting and running?[]

Erm, here: "Took my 86 944 turbo for a drive today. Started fine no smoke etc. About 6 miles into the journey ..." Oli.

 

[TTM]

Graham probably meant he has not touched the car since this drive, when he noticed the white smoke and lack of boost.

 

[mushtykev]

Thanks for all the reply's! I am going to whip the spark plugs out tomorrow night and have a look in the cylinders for water first of all. As i have no water in my coolant tank at all so it has gone somewhere... If i can't see any water then as mentioned it could well have gone down into the sump by now. So i have the option of compression test or a hydrocarbon test of the coolant....I probably have no coolant left in the system to test so that would mean topping it back up and running the car...possibly with coolant already in the oil so surely a compression test would be the logical next step as cranking the engine over would be less detremental to the engine than actually running it with water in the oil...although both scenario's less than ideal. Granted that a compression test does not guarantee a head gasket fault but coupled with the fact i have no coolant left and no visible external leak i would guess that would be the issue?

 

[GPF]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

ORIGINAL: GPF Where does he say that it is starting and running?[]

Erm, here: "Took my 86 944 turbo for a drive today. Started fine no smoke etc. About 6 miles into the journey ..." Oli.

Really? It probably started last week, last month & last year too Oli, all of which would be just as irrelevant...... Or am I just missing your, erm, "humour"? [][][]

 

[GPF]

ORIGINAL: mushtykev Granted that a compression test does not guarantee a head gasket fault but coupled with the fact i have no coolant left and no visible external leak i would guess that would be the issue?

Kev, no coolant left with no visible leak and white "smoke" out of the exhaust sounds pretty conclusive [&:] Check in the cylinders as you say, and check the dipstick (although that may not show anything), but I really wouldn't bother with a compression test - I wouldn't want to risk pumping any water in the sump around.

 

[924nutter]

What we need to establish is whether it is white smoke for the pope or clouds of steam. Oil smoke is usually blue isn't it. Brake fluid being ingested into the engine will burn with white smoke. I) As previoulsly suggested, check coolant level. 2) If the coolant level has dropped, do a 15 psi leak down test on the cooling system. It should make and maintain 15 psi (expansion tank cap safety pressure or thereabouts) i 3) If the cooling system cant hold 15 psi, remove the test rig. Remove the sump plug and drain out some fluid. Oil floats on water and the oil pump pick up is at the bottom of the sump so you don't want to be drawing water in to the oil system now the engine is cold and can't boil off the water. Top up with fresh oil. Way cheaper than a bottom end rebuild. If you conclude that the gasket has blown, you will have to change the oil as some will have already turned into mobil 1 mayonnaise before the complete failure as it started to go. (No really oil plus water plus whip it up with crankshaft) 4) Remove plugs, but you will have to remove a bracket or peice of pipework aside to get to number three plug I think it is and spin engine with a dry rag or something in front of the plug holes with the fuel pump relay removed. If the rag gets wet then there is moisture. 5) Do a compression test. More important than actual pressure is that the readings are within ten psi of each other across all four cylinders but I would guess at something around 8.5 bar or 124 psi If the coolant level has dropped and you are down on three and four then its time to get your spanners out for a closer look; infact even if the coolant level has not dropped. If all seems well in the coolant and compression department then you might try clamping the servo hose with a pipe clamp to seal off the servo from the inlet manifold and see if the engine will run without the white smoke. As a cheerer upper the head gasket on a 944 is no big deal for a competent mechanic. I found it very straight forward on the normally aspirated 2.5 that I did a few years ago. The club has two belt tension testers and I have heard of the idle roller stud shearing off whilst minding its own business. When I did my belts in October 2011 I checked everything out but only changed the belts this time around because of the low 42,000 miles on the clock. I am not going to give advice on what you should and should not change. Rotate the engine to its timing marks before you take it apart. The balancer shafts may move under their own weight but at least the pistons and valves will be in the right place when you refit the head. Don't drop the tappets out of the bottom of the camshaft housing when you take it off, and they will want to trust me. Best of luck I hope it all works out for you.

 

[peanut]

ORIGINAL: TTM Whenever you post something either on here or on RL you sound like the guy who wants to argue just for the sake of it - thanks for giving up.

if I give up....... (which is very rarely) Its right about the time when ungrateful people like you offer no acknowledgement or thanks to me or other members for them taking the time and trouble to post advice to help you![] if you bothered to look at my signiature you'll see that I have made over 2500 posts on this forum over many many years helping other members with their car problems .Thats a lot of hours of my free time ! if you bothered to do a search on the forum before asking for advice you'd probably come across numerous extensive posts that I have made trying to help people like you. I didn't say that I had given up on your problem did I ???! just that I had decided not to discuss the issue further with a specific respondent that I have quoted.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: 924nutter 3) ....... Oli floats on water ............

Please don't let Oli see that, we'll never hear the end of it []

 

[TTM]

I ignored that 2500 posts should earn anyone a medal... Are you expecting some kind of return out of your spending "lot of hours of your free time" giving advice? In case you hadn't noticed this is not what this forum is for and I would have thought that anyone with 2500 posts would have it figured out... but peanut(s) apparently... Btw, all I see in your signature is this : ------------------------- In fact yes you can probably help me - do you have anything in your beggar's bag against ingrown nails?

 

[924nutter]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

ORIGINAL: 924nutter 3) ....... Oli floats on water ............

Please don't let Oli see that, we'll never hear the end of it []

You make one little typo.....lol[]

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Please play nicely people? Whilst we might all think our opinion is the only right one it doesn't hurt for others to throw in different suggestions without it turning in to a bunfight! Group hug everyone....[&o]

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: GPF

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

ORIGINAL: GPF Where does he say that it is starting and running?[]

Erm, here: "Took my 86 944 turbo for a drive today. Started fine no smoke etc. About 6 miles into the journey ..."

Really? It probably started last week, last month & last year too Oli, all of which would be just as irrelevant...... Or am I just missing your, erm, "humour"? [][][]

Umm, I must be missing something. Not quite sure what, but my reading of MushtyKev's post (dated a couple of days ago) suggests that the car starts and drives. Not being humorous. (Probably being fick. As usual.) Oli.

 

[924nutter]

No Oli you are not being thick. The OP clearly says nursed her home idling on the driveway lots of white smoke, even more when blipping the throttle.

 

[mushtykev]

Just a little update... Pulled the spark plugs out tonight. Number 4 cylinder looked wet, no visible depth of water...just wet. All the spark plugs were black with soot, number 4 a tad cleaner than the other 3. Number 2 spark plug was a bit "cloggy" with a broken electrode body, i don't know if this is relevant to the problem, or more of a secondary issue such as timing slightly out etc. I also checked the dipstick... oil level waaaay above maximum with a little bit of mayonnaise in the oil, oil filler cap and filler neck caked in mayonnaise. Didn't bother with a compression test, all seems pretty conclusive....quite looking forward to stripping her down and getting gaskets and belts done. Will let you all know how i get on []

 

[944Turbo]

Sounds like the HG then! classic number 4 failure, it is nice to get in and clean up the hard to reach parts - hope you find some nice unmarked bores when you get in there, Tony