Where do we stand on engine conversions ?

[Hilux]

ORIGINAL: TTM

I suppose originality for the sake of originality makes sense when it is clear that objective improvements cannot be achieved within "reasonable" budget and without "seriously" altering the car's "identity". All 3 subjective terms I know, but let's just think that 50bhp cannot be extracted from an S2 lump with much ease, for instance.

As far as engine swaps are concerned, I think a 5 cyl Audi 20V engine out of an RS2 would make more sense than an American pushrod V8, because :
- it's still a German engine, from the VAG/Porsche family tree at that, and Porsche arguably did some development work on it
- it can be reliably tuned to ridiculous levels of power while retain decent fuel economy when run off boost
- it will offer a far better soundtrack than a 4cyl of course, but also better than a pushrod V8 in my opinion
- at last but not least, it's turbocharged!

I personally would always favour a car that has been modified with mods that I know have been proved to work (MAF, KW suspension, etc) over a 100% original car in similarly good overall cosmetic and mechanical condition.

...............................with 24 year old suspension, brakes, bushes, pipes etc etc

I agree entirely - look at the Beecham Jag Mkll's [8D]

Also, anyone can buy and drive a car, its building one or modifying one from a load of bits and having it work and work well and reliably thats the real fun in my book. Priceless.

Finally, the 20vTurbo is a stonking engine - much more suited to a 944 - too much weight for the Mk1 but I fancy the 1.8T in me Golf one day [] 250 ish bhp and 900kg []

 

[944Turbo]

My original thought was an Audi RS4 v6 engine, but these are a little bit fragile too and no one has fitted one which makes it a lot more work. The ls v8 looks like it is made to fit in the 944 engine bay.

 

[J4CKO]

I would love to try one, I don't think we really need 400 plus bhp that they can provide as the 944 isnt that heavy and moved really quite nicely with only 200 - 250 bhp, so even the lowliest Chevrolet V8 would provide more performance than any standard 944 and a lot of modified ones as well. As Paul mentioned cost could be an issue, it is one of those where you need to do a lot of research and go in with you eyes open, things like would I still get fully comp insurance for £175 ?

There is a part of me that thinks a V8 rumble, whilst very nice, may sound a bit wrong coming from a 944 where once there was the S2's bark or the overworked Hoover sound of a turbo.

Loved the comment about 944's with blown engines, "or turbos as they are more commonly known", genius !

I cant afford to do it anyway, we can all dream but it is important to be dreaming about the right things I find.

 

[944Turbo]

We don't need 400bhp, but then we don't need more than about 120! My turbo ran reliably with well over 300 for 70k miles and you get used to it to the point it feels slow, sometimes a bit more would allow you to pull off an overtake safely. It also allows more options for bringing the back end out to play when the conditions allow.I have some other jobs I am less enthusiastic about I need to get out of the way first, but really hope to make a start this year.

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo
you get used to it to the point it feels slow

How sad is it to be humans sometimes, with our natural ability to adapt to evolving environments...

Using an underpowered shed daily makes the 944 weekend blast happy []

 

[J4CKO]

Yep, thats true, I ride a pushbike or drive either a Citroen C1 or Ford Galaxy through the week so the 944 always seems quicker than I remember, I go on pistonheads and anythign less than 300 bhp is rejected as being too slow, they really have got power crazed and some of them just play Top Trumps rather than drive.

 

[George Elliott]

They are a total waste of effort / money when a M44/51 or 52 is so tuneable.[]

The thought of a pushrod Yank in a 944t leaves me wondering why? They belong in something badly designed and more badly manufactured.[]

IMO

George
944t

 

[J4CKO]

I rented a V8 Mustang in the states earlier this year, was very impressed, there was a hint of rough and ready but it felt sold and the engine was fantastic, 420 bhp and it moved the 1600 kilo Mustang very nicely, with slightly lower gearing and less weight in a 944 it would be immense, and though I am hypothesising here I suspect it would be more relaible, more predictable and easier to live with than a 400 bhp turbo engine, though part of me thinks that a V8 soundtrack might jar slightly, that said, the 928 carries it off nicely. I wonder if the power delivery might be a little bit tame after a tuned turbo, more like a mega S2 kind of deal, is the turbo shove too adictive or doesnt it matter where the power comes from as long as it is there, would love to try them back to back.

 

[TTM]

The way I see it is that the classic American V8 pushrod engine has evolved through decades in a similar way to the rear engined car concept at Porsche, and has now reached an impressive level of excellence with regards to packaging, performance, reliability and, to some extent, efficiency, at least considering how thirsty they were some 50 years ago.

However, as any engine used on the road will spend most time running at low to moderate loads, a "large" V8 may still consume more petrol over the course of its life than a "smaller" I4 engine, even a turbocharged one. I suppose a turbocharged engine designed "properly" should be reliable for long enough to offset the extra servicing costs it will need over a naturally-aspirated V8.

 

[edh]

no one has mentioned the best way to get 400hp in a 944 - remember that 400hp na 3.0 race motor on rennlist? [] I would love to try that - although I suspect it would cost much more than a v8 conversion.

tbh I'm quite happy with 200 'ish hp for now. I am contemplating a head refresh later in the year to make the most of what I have.

 

[Veerzigzag]

...to make the most of what I have...

That's a good principle! Re Paul's comment about the 944 world being polarised into concours and ratters, I think there is a middle ground of people like me that like to keep the car reasonably standard and looking good, with routine replacement of things like roof and boot seals, regular maintenance, fresh paint now and again, and if the sills need doing then they will be done. Can't justify these running costs on value of the car, but that is only an issue if you want to sell it or have the personality traits of an accountant that "knows the price of everything and the value of nothing". "Make the most of what I have" - that is an excellent approach. But one of those "track day and fast road" examples would be very nice.....

 

[Mike_Pollock]

But one of those "track day and fast road" examples would be very nice.....

Just like Eds

 

[944Turbo]

I too see the v8 engines as the result of many years development, and if it had overhead cams it probably wouldn't fit! The power delivery does concern me a bit as I enjoy the turbo shove, I figured I could always go for a wilder cam if its too boring!

 

[TTM]

As far as I have seen there are some excellent 16V heads available for GM V8 engines from Summit, but the price tag is insane. By the time they are needed to surpass the 8V heads, we would probably be running 2000+ bhp engines!

 

[Lowtimer]

For the cost of doing it properly, you could have a nice original 944 and a pretty good C4 Corvette, and have the best of both worlds in two separate cars.

 

[J4CKO]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

I too see the v8 engines as the result of many years development, and if it had overhead cams it probably wouldn't fit! The power delivery does concern me a bit as I enjoy the turbo shove, I figured I could always go for a wilder cam if its too boring!

That Mustang with 400 plus bhp was quick, very quick but I know what you mean, it was not as dramatic as a big boost turbo delivery.