Well, I may be some time ...

[Mike_Pollock]

I think by "better" I understand "more rounded or complete" there is nothing to "drive around". It takes less thought and is probably easier to drive, whilst still having the same great handling and ground covering capacity, albeit without the kick that the turbo has. The turbo can probably be driven faster but would require far more thought and planing from the driver to achieve this, great for the practiced hand or as a weekend toy, but day to day in traffic, the N/A 3.0 does 95% without the driver effort.

 

[Lowtimer]

I think that's a fair enough assessment, Mike. I am sure that when I am really on it, and driving well on roads I know, I can do things that I could not do in an S2. But I am also sure that a lot of the time, on roads I don't know, or in bad weather, or when I am tired, I would be quicker in an S2 and find it all a bit easier.

I know it's traitorous for me to say so as a tuned Turbo blowhard, but I rather like the S2, especially if it's a nice white one. Don't tell Oli I said so, though.

 

[944Turbo]

I am a big fan of the Turbo, but then I also like n/a cars with pretty wild cams which require a similar driving style to keep on the boil. There are very few occasions where I have been caught out in the turbo, but I enjoy changing gear and try to avoid driving in towns/traffic!

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Lowtimer
I know it's traitorous for me to say so as a tuned Turbo blowhard, but I rather like the S2, especially if it's a nice white one. Don't tell Oli I said so, though.

>EyebrowsRisingRapidly<

I think that's it tho'. They are different cars, and will suit different people. I'm not a terribly good driver and don't have much skill behind a steering wheel, hence an S2 suits me better. I would also question how much better a turbo would be in town (where I do most of my driving), but that's conjecture and not experience.

Each, as they say, to their own.

(Let's be honest, the unmistakable superiority of the S2 speaks for itself and doesn't need me to defend it! [])


Oli.

 

[pauly]

All fair comments but it's a sports coupe, every test on top gear etc rates the cars around a test track and I'm fairly sure around most circuits a lightly modded turbo would leave an S2 for dead, + I've got a Volvo for the everyday slog.

 

[zcacogp]

If I spent all my time driving 'round tracks then I wouldn't own a 944 of any type; turbo, lux or S2. And, to pick your phrase apart even more, the superiority of any one car will depend hugely upon the circuit. A big, open, power circuit may favour some turbos over an S2, but I would be careful before applying that statement to all tracks - or even all turbos, for that matter (be they 'lightly modded' or otherwise.)

As I said, each to their own. I'd suggest that anyone who dismisses one over the other is somewhat missing the point.


Oli.

 

[Fat Albert]

We are a somewhat Broad church on here and generally accept, respect and admire each other's opinions/interests/fetishes when it comes to the 'umble little 944.

As Olli says, each to their own and long may it go on, otherwise it would be a dull forum and the price of turbos would go through the roof as that would be the only one people wanted......oh hang on a minute....

 

[pauly]

.

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

"If I spent all my time driving 'round tracks then I wouldn't own a 944 of any type; turbo, lux or S2. "

Maybe you have an alternative suggestion for comparison purposes.

I'd suggest that anyone who dismisses one over the other is somewhat missing the point".

Which is the old record you seem to play.

]

 

[TTM]

My apologies for my comment, which was certainly unsubtle and apparently called for some reactions.
After all I am lucky enough to run both examples so maybe I should stay quiet and enjoy them in silence!

I would suggest Oli to try another example with an even more progressive torque delivery - say a chipped 220.
The first chipped turbo I drove was "correctly" modified and made clear, to me at least, that it was possible to get rid of the lag to a decent extent. I actually ended up buying this car.

 

[Suffolk944]

Everyones preferences are different. For me as a weekend toy that puts a grin on my face a Turbo is the best choice. If I had a 944 as a daily driver as Oli does, then a S2 would be on my driveway instead. If I hankered after a proper retro experience then it would have to be a square dash Lux with some weird fabric on the seats...

 

[Andrew1234]

I can finally offer a view as I brought my 90 944 Turbo back from Newcastle for my first substantial drive of any 944.

Obsevation 1 - I can see why any 944 is so appealing. I've always liked the look but the balance of the thing and the direct and beautifully weighted steering is wonderful. I can see why the S2 guys like the linear power as its a joy to put the 944 through a corner.

Observation 2 - my what a long way the throttle pedal goes.

Observation 3 - I found out how far the throttle pedal goes on a services slip road and what 4k - 6k in 3rd and 4th is really all about - what a hoot- much more fun that my PPP Impreza. 944 Turbos rock.

Observation 4 - are the pedals a little off centre? I ask because repeating the actions of observation 3 on the next junction I got the brake rather than the clutch changing from 4 to 5 as I approached the rev limiter. Don't 944 Turbo have good brakes. Glad there were no other cars around and the road was dry.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauly
Maybe you have an alternative suggestion for comparison purposes.

Oooooh, delicious question.

For dedicated track driving, I'd start here:

Caterham R500 - a personal favourite. Probably followed by something like this:

... An Ultima. Big 'ol V8 puffing away behind you, normally aspirated, no lag.

These have always appealed too:

Westfield XTR2. Ever driven one? Trust me, a smidge over 400kg and nigh on 200bhp means it changes direction by instinct and would run rings 'round pretty much any 944 ever made.

Something more sensible, perhaps? One of these would hit the spot. They are - after all - road legal:

Ariel Atom. Again, even in their least-powerful, earliest guise, they knock any 944 into a cocked hat.

Or, if we really could let our hair down, I've never ridden one of these but am told they are an utter blast. Their younger brother is always a good steer, and the extra power of the YZFR1 over the YZFR6 would be the icing on a very, very sweet cake.

Looking at these, would you really choose a hugely compromised, heavy, slow, soggy, unresponsive sack-of-sag 944 in preference?

ORIGINAL: pauly
Which is the old record you seem to play.

We've never met, but I suspect you are mistaking extreme hyperbolic silliness (which I excel at) with serious opinion (which I have expressed several times on this thread.) Fortunately there is no offence taken on my behalf, and I am sure there was none meant.


Oli.

 

[Lowtimer]

For me, on track, either a Caterham or an Atom. Delightful cars. And there's nothing like being able to see the actual front wheel as you kiss the apex with it.

 

[944Turbo]

I passed an atom several times at snetterton, Paul S, Mr Simms, and Mark K were there too so I don't suppose I was the only one. Passed many caterfields at Silverstone but probably not an R500 among them never seen an ultima on track. Passed a big bike at the ring but I think the rider might have been recovering from a scare.

Tony

 

[zcacogp]

First time on track in an XTR2 I was passed by a diesel clio. But then, as I said, I'm not much of a driver.


Oli.

 

[Lowtimer]

Just before Christmas I was out at Bedford West in a standard 996 Turbo and was *just* able to keep up with some sort of Mondeo. Assumed it was some sort of super-trick machine: turned out it was an ex police Mondeo ST220 the bloke had not modified since he bought it direct from the rozzers. My, he could drive.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

ORIGINAL: pauly
Maybe you have an alternative suggestion for comparison purposes.

Oooooh, delicious question.

We've never met, but I suspect you are mistaking extreme hyperbolic silliness (which I excel at) with serious opinion (which I have expressed several times on this thread.) Fortunately there is no offence taken on my behalf, and I am sure there was none meant.


Oli.

We appear to have misunderstood each other [], what I meant was an alternative to the tv favourite track shootout, no arguments about the bikes though, my GSXR 1000 will slaughter almost any car.

As has been said a chipped 220 turbo may be the best of both worlds, fit the S2 final drive ratio and maybe you would be a convert.

 

[944Turbo]

[] Oh and I left out that I have lapped a fairly well known white 968 in a 20 min session []

 

[VanhireBoys]

I just cant make my mind up at all..

I have my 87 Turbo and I love it to bits - Love the take off , smoothness and ground covering and LHD
I drove a 1990 S2 and loved it as well - Loads of grunt and really easy to judge - Some pull and willingness on tap
I drove an S2 Cab - Felt a bit exposed and got sunburnt... Not the cars fault [] Loved it and didnt notice any creaks or rattles ! The last cabrio I drove was an old tired 205 CTi and it was just terrible - Thought it was going to self destruct [:'(] No Comparison
I drove an 84 Lux - Just loved it as well. - No fuss - Felt the car was wrapped around me more than the later on cars
I have a 924 as well and its a real buzz to drive -Not enough power to terrify but Fun Fun Fun -
I have had the pleasure of a 968 as well - Felt just like the S2 but then I wasnt going to abuse someone elses car over 29bhp !

Hold on a minute ! I am just thinking I am very priveleged to have had the oppertunity to sample all these great cars (Apart from the 205 that is) . They each have their own different personalities. Id never run another 924/944/968 down as I would happily have any one of them all day any day ! (or all them for that matter [])

Now then who is going to let me have a sample of a 924 Turbo and 924S ... I never had a run in a 944 Lux Auto either or a 924 Carrera GT ... So much choice []

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauly

We appear to have misunderstood each other [], what I meant was an alternative to the tv favourite track shootout ...

OK, fair enough and very good question.

The joy of a 'track shootout' is that it gives very quantitative results. Two cars go 'round a track, the times are measured and compared. Easy to do, easy to understand. But it measures only one thing (time 'round that particular track on that day), and this may be completely irrelevant to the choice being made. To revert to some hyperbolic silliness, my vacuum cleaner would go 'round any track you care to mention quite a lot more quickly than my washing machine, but when it comes to washing clothes then I'll choose the washing machine every day of the week.

A better test is to put the machines being compared in the environment that they are intended to be used in, and test them from all angles. Snag is that this is a much more qualitative test, you don't get some nice clear numbers to compare at the end, and opinions start to become relevant. And it all gets messy. I have learned that I value build quality and driving enjoyment in my cars, and I tend to favour precise handling and good steering feel over outright power. A very good friend of mine has a similar philosophy and summed it up as "I have realised that just enough power will never be just enough, and prefer other characteristics in my cars." He favours his (dog-slow) n/a 1980's Audi Coupe over his UR Quattro because the handling is more refined and the power curve more linear.

On the other hand, Fen (the late, great Fen from this forum) said "I just like going very fast in straight lines", owned one of the most powerful 944 turbos in the UK (until he blew it up - which didn't take him long) and was very happy with it.

What's the best test? As I said, compare the two choices in the environment in which they will be used, having worked out some decision-making criteria beforehand. And accept that opinions will differ, and the most suitable choice will vary from person to person. For a long motorway drive from London to Edinburgh, the Turbo that Steve let me drive was a great choice; it was fast, smooth and fun to drive. However, driving it from my house to the bottom of the M1 was a nightmare - it was rarely on boost, bogged down all over the place, was too low to get over speedbumps, I was worried that it would come on boost with little notice, and it wouldn't play MP3's from a memory stick. All ailments that my S2 doesn't suffer from.

Back to my earlier post; the S2 and the turbo are different, and will suit different people. Each to their own. The greatly esteemed Mr Trasler put it well - "Everyones preferences are different. For me as a weekend toy that puts a grin on my face a Turbo is the best choice. If I had a 944 as a daily driver then a S2 would be on my driveway instead. If I hankered after a proper retro experience then it would have to be a square dash Lux with some weird fabric on the seats."


Oli.