Water/Methanol Injection

[944 man]

Does anyone on the forum have any direct experience of water and methanol injection on a 944 Turbo? Im considering fitting a simple kit to run a water/methanol mix, but I obviously dont expect to see anything like the results that I would with a replacement ECU.

As a dual port wastegate is a likely future upgrade, along with either a Dawes or an electronic controller, then this seems like a prudent move for £200.

 

[944 man]

Looks like I will be ploughing my own furrow then: watch this space.

 

[Lowtimer]

What is your purpose in considering it?

It is fundamentally an anti-knock measure, so its advantages would be that you can run more advanced ignition than normal, or higher compression than standard, for a given boost level. Is that the sort of thing you would like to do?

 

[barks944]

Whats the trigger for the water injection kit you have? I started up my 951 on my DME this weekend and I have a relay output I was thinking of using for water injection. I am certainly up for having a go .

Tom

 

[Ex Skyline]

Sorry for hijacking this thread guys but, Tom, i notice you are running an Apexi AVC-R. May i ask where you went to get it set up? Cheers mate.
Pete

 

[barks944]

I set it up myself, not too hard. There's a quick guide in the tutorials section that I never quite finished. Drop me a PM if you want some help and I can drop you my mobile. I need to set mine up again so I need to get my head round it as well!

 

[944 man]

AVC-R - lovely piece of kit, if you can set the damned thing up!

Tom, the product that I was considering uses an adjustable pressure switch, so you set it to operate above the pre-determined threshold.

Simon, Im familiar with the implementation of water/meth injection, but I havent seen it used on these cars before, or any other vehicle where the fuel and ignition parameters are fixed.

Im looking initially for an improvement through efficiency, and later, possibly by using some of the redundant over-fueling to make power through extra boost. This was why I was asking principally, because its more usual to fuel the boost, rather than boost the fuel.


Simon

 

[944Scott]

Its on my christmas pressie list, I am looking at the AEM kit with a view to locating a tank in the right hand well of the boot.

 

[944 man]

I was considering a similar position for my tank and Id been looking at Devils Own.

 

[944Scott]

I want the gauge to match my other two plus i think i read somewhere that the AEM kit had a better pump.

 

[JamesO]

Interesting, stuff.
My only issue with it, on reading the 'Devils own' site is that you need 1.5 litres of water/methanol injection for every 10 litres of fuel used when above the boost setpoint.
I suppose not such an issue if you set the boost switch quite high, or maybe combine switching with intake temperature.
I suppose you could also trigger from the KLR knock output pin as a safety feature, IIRC it takes a few knock events before timing is adjusted. Not 100% about that one though as there's a lot of conficting information on the KLR.

Not too unrelated but are you going to use an oil catch can?

ETA
The progressive 'Devils Own' kit looks to me a better buy, as the flow of the basic kit is set in stone by the nozzle size.
I'm not sure how you can be sure the amount injected is correct though.

 

[944Scott]

You get three different nozzle sizes with the aem kit.

 

[JamesO]

On the AEM kit? had a quick read up on it. Seems good as its progressive, which would mean less refilling and more control, but again how do you know how much it should inject and is injecting?
I mention the catch can as I would have thought stopping oil vapours from the breather system being injested and lowering octane would be a cheaper first port of call to help prevent detonation.
Don't get me wrong as I have thought about it myself as well as CO2 intake cooling. I may even try the CO2 as the kit I can easily knock together at work and trigger from my ecu.

 

[944 man]

James, 15% of fuel used over the threshold isnt impractical, if you think about it. Even if you were to drive everywhere on full boost, then youd only use just over 10 litres of water/methanol, which is the average tank size. In practice you can probably get away with a tank thats only half that size.

Fully agree about the measure, but its far less critical than fuel to air and I believe that a horsepower based equation is used. The real issue for me is that methanol is a pretty horrible chemical and whilst it isnt difficult to buy well, youd haveto be very careful mixing it.

Still - nothing like a bad as toluene, which I dabbled with on a fragile Impreza STI that I imported.

 

[JamesO]

I suppose it depends how you use the car boost wise, I figured you were building a trackday car.
Can you run water only? Does screenwash still contain alchohol?

It does interest me and my co2 system sort of plan is much less practical but virtually free to me.