VR6 944

[homesea]

Who on here was after building a 944 with a VR6??

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Porsche-944-VR-6-Rennwagen-/290654343174?pt=Automobile&hash=item43ac595006

Is a link half way down the page with the engine work but I can't get it to work.

I don't see the point in doing it, especially if you have to fit a bonnet like that!

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Great link.
You have to wonder about the mentality of someone doing this.
The thought process involved.....
VR6, nice motor, let's stick one in a 944, will it fit? Might need a bit of a bonnet bulge - ok - how big? (Ok to here!) .......next stage should have been, what else can e use THAT WILL FIT.

Horrendous waste of time money and 944.

 

[Jonny944CS]

Oh dear [&o]



On the subject of 6cyl engines; given the price of M44.43 engines, I've often wondered how the 3L 24v Volvo B6304 might look...

Porsche helped develop this rather neat engine and (for a short time) conducted an engineering study for application to the 968, so it likely fits rather well. Probably far more hassle and expense than it is worth of course, but a tuned NA 6cyl would be a rather nice prospect...

Have any of our Scandinavian brothers taken this on???

 

[Suffolk944]

The 944 equivalent of a broken pencil.

What does go through these peoples minds sometimes ? Anyone seen that orange 928 thats been made to look like a mutated Peugeot 406 coupe ? Guy wants £68,000 for it !

ETA Link

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1095375&mid=138160&nmt=Peugeot+406+lights+on+a+928%21+Purists+look+away

 

[Diver944]

and after all that effort you end up with.....................................................only 200bhp????????

 

[colin944]

waste of time and effort...... what about a W8 would that fit?

 

[Frenchy]

I have a magazine article soewhere with an article on a 944 with a 5 cylinder Audi engine, turbo charged and lots of other bits with around 600 bhp, the car looked reasonably stock, Sweden / Finland rings a bell for location.

 

[bmnelsc]

Lots of opinions on this topic - I think the point is that the highly engineered 944 engines need a LOT of money to get substantial returns on power (see Jon's list - and he started with a turbo) while more modern engines have more room for improvement and usually more tunable engine management. There is even the potential to get better than stock power from less displacement and weight and potentially better driveability and economy.

If its brute power you are after, its the GM LS V-8 engines that fit the bill. Lots of variety and even stockers with 400 HP so the transition can be comparatively cheap. Hard on transmissions tho if you aren't restrained []

I'm going to stick with my S2 powerplant. When and if it needs major engine work - I'll look at all the options.... I use mine as a summer time road car and enjoy it immensely. It still has more engine than the mountain roads will allow when I head for our lovely west coast. Oh, the province of British Columbia, where those lovely mountains are located, has implemented a law whereby they impound your vehicle if you're caught going 40kph over the posted limit.

 

[Neil Haughey]

I am surprised that after all these years someone hasn't rebuilt an S2 or 968 engine with stroker crank and rods. Would be relatively easy to do and would only enhance the main attraction of the NA engines.

 

[os951]

Have any of our Scandinavian brothers taken this on???

Havent heard of 6-cyl Volvo/944 swap, but some 4-cylinder swaps are around, at least in Sweden. Here in Finland are at least one Audi 5-cyl. turbo project going on. Also one Toyota 1jzgte 6-cyl ready.

Swedish Vovo 944 & Saab 944 projcets:

Adapter for Ford pressurebearing to be used on Audi 5cyl / 944 clutch combo. Made by a friend of mine

Finnish 951 / Toyota 1jzgte swap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dbPnQyq5oQ

 

[333pg333]

I suppose there's some reasons for using a twin cam 4 cylinder motor from Volvo or Saab as opposed to an S2 or 968 motor to keep it all Porsche?
Sitting the motor upright gives room for the turbo to be put on the 'correct' side, but why couldn't you 'TDC' a Porsche motor for the same reason? While the V8 thing certainly has it's proponents and there are some good examples out there, I just can't bring myself to consider that. If I strayed I think it would be for an Audi motor. To turbo an S2 motor really isn't that difficult either. I suppose some people just like tinkering and making something out of the ordinary. Good on them. Makes life more interesting. []

 

[Hairyarse]

VR6 is a lovely engine, but in a 944....please!

 

[George Elliott]

The VR6 and the Audi 5 are cast iron, so the thing will drive like a dozer and chew the front tyres to death.

Ultimately, the Alloy, balance shaft 4 cyl, with bullet proof crank from Porsche is the best option IMO.

Is the volvo or saab alloy or lead, i mean cast iron, does anyone know?

George
944t

 

[Jonny944CS]

The Volvo six is reportedly 180kg (968 engine is rated at 176kg), all aluminium, about the same length and was around 30% cheaper to produce than the Porsche engine. I think it may be a bit taller and have under-square cylinders.

I guess a tricky hurdle with a 6-cyl (in the 944 engine bay) could have been the manifolding.

 

[George Elliott]

Paul,
Interesting, it must be alloy.
The 944 engine has some costly features; Alusil process, ceramic inserts on the turbo, Crank spec / bottom bearings spec, forged rods (early versions), forged pistons, balancer shaft engineering, cast rocker assy, crossover fabrication & DP for turbo, water cooling of turbo, cast / finned sump, knock control features and the hours of assembly time required, but for me the benefits are its strong, smooth, compact, efficient, powerful, lightweight - if you don't weigh the crank[]
George
944t

 

[Jonny944CS]

To make a 4cyl begin to run like a 6 requires quite a bit of weight and complexity to be added. Getting perfect balance from a 4 is difficult/impossible and no amount of trying will make the 180° spaced power pulses become 120°.

Having said that, in terms of specific output, the M44 Porsche engines are pretty peerless for their era. []

 

[George Elliott]

Absolutely, it will never quite be a 6, thats where their aircooled cousin comes in.

Is the 120 deg rule true of the flat as it is of the straight layout?
George

 

[Jonny944CS]

Yes, a flat-6 has 120° firing intervals. It is also inherently balanced for primary and secondary forces, like a straight six.

A V6 on the other hand is not perfectly balanced and, depending on the bank angle and crankshaft configuration (90° V-angle for example); it may have uneven firing - though you would need to have a good reason to do this.

 

[colin944]

What about the V8 turbo from a cayene.that would be interesting,but would it fit?

 

[Neil Haughey]

Flat plane cranks. Used on Ferrari V8's and many race engines supposedly due to easier/more efficient exhaust design for race cars and as there is much less weight in the crank faster engine acceleration.

Personally I have always felt its a part of why Ferrari's sound dissapointing at idle but have that characteristic gnarly sound as they rev.