Urgent Christmas day help needed

[zcacogp]

Personal opinion?

- Gasket set
- Cam and balance belts (unless they were done in the last 20,000 miles)
- Head bolts
- Water Pump (unless it was done at the last belt change)
- Oil
- Oil Filter
- Spark Plugs

Get the head skimmed if in any doubt whatsoever (i.e. do it, given the history.) There is a good place on the A13 just past the Redbridge Roundabout on the LHS - can't remember the name - that I've used before and I'd recommend. Get the valves lapped in properly (you can do this yourself). Don't pay for flowing / fancy seat jobs / any other bollox as it won't pay off for you.

Unless the ancillary belts (power steering / Air Con / alternator) are clearly toast then re-use them; they are easy to change later if they do go pop.

Use fresh oil when you have done the job, and change it (and the filter) again 500 miles after doing the job. And keep the revs below 3500 for the first 500 miles as well. (Actually, this last bit may not be totally necessary just for a head job, but it's not a bad precaution.)

Best of luck with it. Keep us posted (with photos.)


Oli.

 

[Asiangunner]

Thanks Oli, i will try and find that place on the A13 as its only down the road for me.

Belts wise its only the alternator thats being run as no aircon or power steering on mine.

I just looked up valve lapping and yeah i'm sure i can do that myself, any tips on cleaning the rest of the block? what sort of things should i be using?

The water pump looks quite new on mine compared to everything else so i am happy to leave that.
The spark plugs were done less than a thousand miles ago but if its adviser to change them i probably will just like the oil and filter.

How much was head skimming at that place mate? just so i can get a budget in mind..

 

[sulzeruk]

If you don't have any history of the front of the engine having the seals changed, well worth doing. If you have an oil leak, it will either be the O ring at the front of the cam tower hardening and leaking on to the manifold, the cork gasket that goes under the blanking cover at the rear of the cam box or the oil seals leaking from either the balance belt or crank pulley. You can cheat a bit if the belts are OK by slackening the tenisoner and pulling the belt over the cam pulley to get the head off if everything is OK. Get the engine to TDC first, there is a reference mark on the flywheel underneath that lines up with a U shaped cutout at the 6 o'clock postition.
Any questions, just ask or give me a call.
Alasdair

 

[zcacogp]

Just had a look at Google Maps and it's the A12, not the A13 (always confuse those two - sorry!) It's on the left hand side as you go out of town, a bit before Newbury part tube station, although I haven't been there for 6 or 7 years so they may have closed. Always was run by an old guy and his son and had been there for donkeys years ...

A skim shouldn't be much. Probably just into 3 figures. It's a pretty simple job and shouldn't cost a lot (and, to be honest, pretty much anywhere should be able to do it for you.)

Spark Plugs are a quid each so don't cost much to change, but can cause no end of problems. I'd change them. Valve lapping is much better done by hand than machine (particularly if you haven't done it before) but isn't hard. If the water pump looks new and isn't leaking or making nasty noises then leaving it be is a good idea.

Cleaning; I'd buy some gunk from Halfords (or - better still - some of this: http://www.bilthamber.com/pro-introduction.php?cname=Degreasing%20::%20Cleaning&name=surfex%20HD ), apply it liberally, scrub it with a scrubbing brush and rinse off with a hosepipe. Do this to the whole engine and engine bay before you start and it will make the job a lot nicer to do (working on clean engines is much nicer than working on dirty ones!)


Oli.

 

[Asiangunner]

This is the head gaket kit i'm buying:

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Porsche_944_2.5_1984/p/car-parts/engine-parts/engine-parts1/car-gasket-seals/?362330101&1&ca2aee146e9a168765b0c3016e5e5db8045f1f04&000174

Is this the cam shaft sel kit required in the description above?

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Porsche_944_2.5_1984/p/car-parts/engine-parts/engine-parts1/car-gasket-seals/?360331010&1&911ea66a771f66689761b529b58a9cb5926d9431&000426

I've checked out that engine cleaner and it looks good mate, definetely want the engine cleaned, its one of them annoying jobs i've never got to do yet..
I've put spark plugs and oil filter in the shopping list now too.


I will look it up but can you remind me about TDC and how best to get it to that point?

 

[andy watson]

Hi Ranjit,

Sorry to have read about your bad luck especially on Christmas eve! my advice would be steer clear of the cheap gasket set from Euro car parts and go for genuine gaskets.

I appreciate that budget determines these things but I have heard that these cheap sets do give problems, my own car indeed by previous owner had a Euro car parts gasket set fitted which failed in my ownership resulting eventually in a replacement engine (long story)

It maybe worth while spending a little more now to save in the long run?

Just my personal opinion

Hope it all goes well and good luck

 

[zcacogp]

That's sound advice from Mr Watson there. ECP is claiming that those gaskets are "Reinze", which sounds like it's trying to be "Victor Reinz" but aren't. Victor Reinz are good quality ... Reinze may not be. And, given the amount of labour involved (you'll be at the job for days, I promise!) you don't want to be taking it apart again if the gasket fails a couple of months later. Spending the extra for a known-quality set could be a wise way to invest £20 or so.


Oli.

 

[Asiangunner]

Thanks oli and Andy, i'll opt for the OEM stuff then as i definitely don't have time to do the job all over again. I spoke to my local OPC today and they do a gasket kit for £156 inc VAT.

Do you guys know the part numbers for the oil seals that are best to be replaced as stated in a previous reply..?

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Asiangunner
Do you guys know the part numbers for the oil seals that are best to be replaced as stated in a previous reply..?

I don't, but the picture looks about right ...


Oli.

 

[sulzeruk]

That is the seal kit that I buy. As long as the set is Victor Reinz, they are one of the OEM suppliers to Porsche. Some of the top end sets will have O rings and seals in for the cam pulley at the front. I'll take the duplicate unused seals Ranjit, be a few quid off the price. If you do end up changing the balance belt seals, be careful as they are handed due to the 2 shafts rotating in opposite directions,
Alasdair

 

[andy watson]

Thought I would check my cars history file, cheap gasket set changed at 123,500 in 1999 failed in 2007 at 147,500 ( miles rounded up)
Just a bit of useless information really,

Glad you are going for the proper set, keep us updated on your progress.

 

[Asiangunner]

ORIGINAL: andy watson


Thought I would check my cars history file, cheap gasket set changed at 123,500 in 1999 failed in 2007 at 147,500 ( miles rounded up)
Just a bit of useless information really,

Glad you are going for the proper set, keep us updated on your progress.

I've had close look at the close up pic on Eurocarparts of the gasket set and the exhaust gaskets at least definetely say Victor Rienz onthe and from what i can make out the main head gasket has a name written on it which appears to be two words and not just Rienz.

Andy, was your engine failure completely down to head gasket failure?

 

[andy watson]

Hi Ranjit,

The indie that carried out the work said that the failure would have been down to the the head gasket.

I had had the tell tale cream sludge on the oil filler for a long time, my original indie had said this was down to lack of use and condensation I topped up the water very occasionally, bear in mind I do not use her a great deal and at one time not for about 8 months, it became worse as time went on, in the end I was adding 1 litre every trip out this was now obviously head gasket problem which I new.

At that particular time I did not use the car that much and the advice was to keep an eye on it, the car never over heated in fact never went above normal operating temp. and never gave me any major problems in fact the sludge stopped gathering around the filler, I changed my oil myself 3 times and the sump was never sludged up.

The day of failure was after a trip to Thruxton from Colchester which was a long trip for the car then, on the way home I stopped for petrol, the car would not start at first it was very stiff to turn over and then after a couple of turns very very loose!!

On inspection the cam chain broke and smashed the head around the chain housing, the indie reckons that the gasket was split around one of the bores and that the water was being lost that way and not actually into the oil.
The diagnosis was that the bore finally filled up and could not be compressed by the piston, the engine locked under hydraulic pressure and gave way.

Hope I have remembered that correctly.

We did not bother removing the head to investigate further I just sourced a replacement engine and went from there.
Don't know if that is going to help you in any way? the only thing I would say is that nearly all the replacement parts I have brought for the car have been genuine parts working on the assumption that if the original Porsche components have lasted this long then the replacements should in theory last the same amount of time.

Out of interest what will be your saving from ECP?

 

[zcacogp]

Ranjit, Andy,

I suspect that ECP source items from different places. It's quite possible that they have cheap supplier of gaskets and buy from Victor Reinz when the cheap source isn't supplying them. Hence it's a lottery as to what you actually get.

(It's also possible that they put pictures of the good quality ones on their website, and have some weasel words about "Equivalent Quality" in their small print ... )


Oli.

 

[sulzeruk]

I am surprised the cam chain broke as there is not much loading on the cam chain when the engine rotates. If the bore filled up, your rod would bend. I think your head may have cracked rather than the gasket go.
Alasdair

 

[andy watson]

Hi Alasdair,

I am as you probably gather not that clued up on these things and am led only by other's knowledge, I do understand the logic in what you say but would the water then not have mixed with the oil over a period of time if the head had cracked?

Please do not be offended I am not doubting your theory, just interested what would have caused the head to crack?