UKs most powerful 944! Apparently!!

[mik_ok]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

Bit of a foot shooting there Jon. I was assuming it had a rebuilt engine.

John - Jon is not selling this car.

Therefore no foot shooting has occured. [] other than the fact it's out-bhp-ing the monster 3.2 conversion of course, [:'(] but then again the designer never suggested that big bhp was the intent of that conversion [] although you might expect it to do so [:'(]

 

[Indi9xx]

other than the fact it's out-bhp-ing the monster 3.2 conversion of course

The 3.2's have a serious design problem, as soon as an owner feels what the region of 450 lbs of torque feels like, they tend to hold back on buying more tuning bits that increase the release the BHP... Shame really but more than understandable.

Standard exhaust is a big limiting factor on a 3.2.. This week we have been playing around with a 2.5 with many of the same tuning bits apart from the exhaust as Nick's turbo cab, but the power is being held back to about 365 bhp. I am confident that with a free flowing exhaust like Nick's the power would rise on this one, as it would on the 3.2's... But that was predicted when the 3.2's were just on the drawing board.

We have just also almost finished an very unusual project, prepping up a 944 turbo specifically as a stock 944 turbo but to get specifically 250 BHP... The reason for this is there is so much talk of what mods give exactly what BHP increase, we have decided to prep this car as a typical faultless but well used 944 turbo that a typical 944 owner may have, circa 100k mile engine (but with all new gaskets) and standard everything else.

The plan is to publicly dyno it in stock form, and keep the car open to inspection by anyone who is interested, then to cycle through adding every 944 turbo tuning part we can get our hands on, in as many combinations as we can find, so we can catalogue an array of dyno charts which will be openly published for the 944 turbo community so people can see the snake oil from the good stuff. Wherever possible the car will be dyno'ed publicly before and after fitting parts, with both runs being performed in the same day.... Should be interesting

 

[333pg333]

I have always felt that the 3.2s were crying out for some extractor/exhaust upgrades but as you say, the rise in tq is pretty steep and most will find it easily fits their needs, or at least for a while...[]
See the picture attached. This is a new exhaust that will go onto my 3L road car for a while before finding it's way onto the race car 3.?L. This is why you see the V-band in the middle section. It is for a removeable CAT for the road and will come off for the track. It has a 3" V-band outlet which turns into a 3.5" downpipe, then 4" that becomes ovalised for better ground clearance until the axle, then 5" with a turndown tip for noise limiting. This is along the lines of what I'd like to see on the 3.2s. Still, it's custom SFR so not exactly pocket change. The pic is in unfinished form.

Jon, your intention for the stock 2.5L to be used as a reference vehicle on which to test a number of mods is a very good one, albeit brave. I look forward to seeing the results as this has been needed for a long time. Good luck!
Patrick

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

Jon, your intention for the stock 2.5L to be used as a reference vehicle on which to test a number of mods is a very good one, albeit brave. I look forward to seeing the results as this has been needed for a long time. Good luck!
Patrick

I agree 110% plus some. A great reference for us all but difficult and expensive to achieve. You also have the added complication that few mods are a single bolt on part and often work in tandem with other parts. An exhaust, for example, may produce big gains on a car with other tuning but may even be detrimental to a standard car due to reduced gas flow. The combinations are almost limitless. That's why tuning is so much fun.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: mik_ok

ORIGINAL: John Sims

Bit of a foot shooting there Jon. I was assuming it had a rebuilt engine.

John - Jon is not selling this car.

Therefore no foot shooting has occured. []

Mik,

I appreciate it isn't Jon's car but I am sure he would prefer to see Nick in getting a good price for it.

While we would all like to think adding tuning gooodies to our cars increases their value it isn't necessarily the case. (I might have already said that) Obviously, with a reputed tuner like Jon, those in the know would give the car more credit (.'. value) than someone bolting on a collection of shiney bits assembled from around the world, but it remains a limited market.

As all the bits are bolt on I stand by my first comments - unbolt them and put the car back to standard. If it is as good as you say you will get the top price for a top condition cab. IMHO there are more people who would be interested in such a car. Sell Jon's bits separately, or as a kit. You may or may not get more but will at least get rid of the car.

 

[AndrewS]

ORIGINAL: 944turbocab416

nice to see you stiring thing up andrew. my car war tested on the same rolling road used b the 944 league the car you tuned when tested only made 401 bhp but whose counting???????????? its all good clean fun

Hi Nick,

It would be exciting to put all of these cars (the 400+ bhp 2.5 cars and the 3 x 3.2 cars [that I know of]) through a varied test shoot out (track, drag 1/4 mile, 0-100, dyno etc). That would be good clean fun! I personally also like the look of the Cabriolet and agree it is the best looking of all the 944 models - your example being an enourmous credit to both you and Chris who had it before. It would be awesome if we could get them all to a track day/evening some time this year. []

The 944 Turbo engine has it's limitations (without major surgery). What keeps the 944 Turbo special is the amazing chassis and balance - it is still tough to exceed that today. However, 400+ bhp is still a pretty impressive number and with Mark K's car having been in regular use for 2 years now since the upgrade - proof that it can be achieved reliably too.

I would imagine your SL55 AMG and C43 AMG are sensational to drive on the road. Pace with grace along with enormous reserves of torque and power. Both are probably no slouch on the track either.[]

Regards,
Andrew

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: AndrewS

[FONT=arial"]It would be exciting to put all of these cars (the 400+ bhp 2.5 cars and the 3 x 3.2 cars [that I know of]) through a varied test shoot out (track, drag 1/4 mile, 0-100, dyno etc). That would be good clean fun! ..........[FONT=arial"]

Sounds like a superb idea - at least it would be something interesting to read in one of the Porsche mags.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

Sounds like a superb idea - at least it would be something interesting to read in one of the Porsche mags.

This is starting to sound quite competitive and could easily be organised over three different days - dyno, Santa Pod and finally Bruntingthorpe for top speed in 1.5 miles

Luckily we are all down to earth, modest types that wouldn't be interested in really owning 'the most powerful 944 in the UK' []

My only worry would be which of us with the empty wallets would be crying the most if our particular car was found to be bottom of the 400+ club [&o]

We may need a clutch man on standby if we did the drag strip test []

 

[sawood12]

In order to save clutches and provide a much more representative comparison i'd ditch the Santa Pod accellaration from stand still in favour of a number of in gear accelaration tests such as 30 - 60 (or 40 - 60 of which the benchmark is the 997 turbo that does in in 1 sec in 2nd gear), 50 - 80 or whatever speeds agreed on.

The problem with standing starts is that it is influenced more by tyre choice, diff condition, weight and driver clutch skill so you can never get a true comparison based on pure engine performance unless all cars had the same tyres, suspension, weight, diffs and driver.

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: mik_ok

ORIGINAL: John Sims

Bit of a foot shooting there Jon. I was assuming it had a rebuilt engine.

John - Jon is not selling this car.

Therefore no foot shooting has occured. [] other than the fact it's out-bhp-ing the monster 3.2 conversion of course, [:'(] but then again the designer never suggested that big bhp was the intent of that conversion [] although you might expect it to do so [:'(]

Don't fall into the trap of single headline bhp figures. They are ultimately meaninless. You have to take into acount the whole power and torque curve and the real important factor is the area under the curve. In those stakes I fancy the 3.2's to be significantly ahead!

 

[DivineE]

I would LOVE to see a real world comparison 3.2's against the other quick 944's I think it might finally demonstrate to others what my backside is already telling me. My car is currently in with Jon for a check over (also allowing the speedo needle to recover from a nasty case of whip lash[]) I'm not sure entirely whether I will have the chance to do a test day as my car is regrettably for sale again [] but I do hope that either Jon or the next owner would be willing to take it along if such a test actually happens.

Regards,

Ben

 

[333pg333]

For sale also??? What's going on with you guys? Ben, I remember you were thinking of selling before you decided to go the other way and do the 3.2L and now you're selling? Sorry to hear it. []
What sort of money are you asking?

 

[DivineE]

I'll put it up for £14,000 (why not) but will take £12,500 from anyone on the list that wants it. It's just had a Cat 1 alarm installed, done its first 2500miles. Embarrassingly I simply can't afford to keep her! There is someone interested at the moment and he has first rights on the car but if he changes his mind its open for all. Definately a specialist market but being freshly finished and in as new condition I know there'll be someone out there who wants one and will be more than happy to bypass the time and expense of building one! Its a good buy really.

Regards,

Ben

 

[John Sims]

I think Paul ought to buy it. If he had two 3.2's he might get to drive one of them occasionally. []

Now? Ben's car @ £12.5K + pay to have engines swapped over on 2 cars (say £1.5K) = £14K

DDT Sell off Bens car with Beakys engine £6K ?

.'. 3.2 engine in Beaky for £8K [8|]

.'. £66/bhp increase.

 

[Frazerb]

What a great thread!!!!!

I'm a cab man and love it but the coupe is the "icon". Having just turned the sharp corner between 39 and 40....I always remember admmiring a black turbo coupe my pub owner had....timeless thoughts and memories.

Maybe the wrong thread to say this but what a great forum we have !!

enjoy the sun this weekend....especially if you are in a cab ..FB

 

[sawood12]

Frazer - where do you live? I admire your optimism about the weather this weekend!! Though I took my car out for a spin at lunchtime and my A/C needs it's annual recharge, it was hot hot hot in there. I could have done with a cab for an hour. I would love to know where all that gas goes when everytime i've had a leakcheck carried out the system is as airtight as a Scotsman's wallet!!

 

[Diver944]

Just noticed a big price cut [8D]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/526298.htm

I'm pretty sure this is the same car, but there is no mention of the mods anymore [&:]

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: DivineE

I'll put it up for £14,000 (why not) but will take £12,500 from anyone on the list that wants it. It's just had a Cat 1 alarm installed, done its first 2500miles. Embarrassingly I simply can't afford to keep her! There is someone interested at the moment and he has first rights on the car but if he changes his mind its open for all. Definately a specialist market but being freshly finished and in as new condition I know there'll be someone out there who wants one and will be more than happy to bypass the time and expense of building one! Its a good buy really.

Regards,

Ben

Was this car sold ?.

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Just noticed a big price cut [8D]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/526298.htm

I'm pretty sure this is the same car, but there is no mention of the mods anymore [&:]

I suppose it makes sense to swap the engine out if you're trying to sell the car into a very small market. Great shame, but if thats happened I wonder in which car that engine will next appear?

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson

I suppose it makes sense to swap the engine out if you're trying to sell the car into a very small market. Great shame, but if thats happened I wonder in which car that engine will next appear?

It was just a standard 2.5 engine.

It was the BB turbo, Vitesse MAF and other bolt ons that made it so powerful (plus it ran at 1.4bar [] )

I can only imagine he took them off to open up the market of potential buyers.

I believe Ben's 3.2 car had a potential buyer looking at it on Tuesday