Turbo Tuning advice

[Bob]

Does anyone on the forum have any experience of the Roguetuning AFM chips for the 944 Turbo? They look like they are a lot cheaper than any of the UK offerings at £250 inc vat and import and they come with a MAP sensor that monitors boost and adjusts timing. They claim 288 RWHP for a K26/8 car

How do they compare with the Promax Level 1 kit at £312 inc VAT and the Klaus Hoffman chips from JMG at £418.80

 

[Frenchy]

Or option C, get a live remap done by Wayne Schofield (Chip Wizards) are you planning to add go faster goodies or a standard set up ?

 

[PSH]

IMHO Frency has already given the only option, talk to Wayne ( if you can get hold of him) he is the best tuner for the 944 having many years experience tuning a number of cars for the Pirelli Porsche Cup when he worked at Redline Racing including Chris Heeley's car. Aftermarket chips can and will increase your power , some do it very well however none will release your cars full potential like a day on the dyno to program a custom mapped chip. Even with no other mods your gain more power and probably better mpg too.

Pete

 

[George Elliott]

Bob,
my experience of the Promax L2 was good, it would pass the MOT at 860rpm. It ran with 1.2 bar boost and 3 bar for and worked really well.
my current car has the K.Hoffman chips, and it struggles with the MOT, (runs very rich) and is no sweeter running. approx equal to Promax. I expected it to be better. The FQS can influence nicer / better running with the timing retarded 3deg.

if I had to suggest the ultimate ecu software, I would contact Wayne Schofield, incredible reputation IMO.

There may be another ecu option on the horizon - see the thread on the forum.

I'm waiting to see how it develops before making my next move

good luck

George
944t

 

[DavidL]

From reading Rennlist Rogue tuning is gaining a good reputation in tuning circles. Their MAF kit is now the default option along with the erstwhile Vitesse one.

Personally if you going down the well trodden stage 2 kit route then off the shelf chips will do 99% of what you want in relation to a live mapping session. If you start beyond that then a live map is well worth while as each set up is different.
As with anything else the further you go the gains are less and costs more.

I was advised that for a S2 kit go with off the shelf parts but start to add a MAF kit and new turbos etc and then a live map would be very worthwhile.

I suppose something like an Emerald ECU would give you the best of both worlds as you could download a stock map and/or play yourself on your setup and yet still have a map designed for you from someone who knows exactly how.

 

[PSH]

George brings up a good point, emissions!.... Another advantage of a custom map is the emissions can be set very low on idle for situations like an MOT. My emissions on idle is , or should I say was, it'll be different with the new round mods until I can get up to Rochdale, 0.14 which I suspect is lower than a hybrid.... My car being an 86 is allowed up to 4.5 or is it 3.5?, either way it's not an issue for me.

Pete

 

[Suffolk944]

ORIGINAL: Bob

Does anyone on the forum have any experience of the Roguetuning AFM chips for the 944 Turbo? They look like they are a lot cheaper than any of the UK offerings at £250 inc vat and import and they come with a MAP sensor that monitors boost and adjusts timing. They claim 288 RWHP for a K26/8 car

How do they compare with the Promax Level 1 kit at £312 inc VAT and the Klaus Hoffman chips from JMG at £418.80

One thing to bear in mind is that US BHP claims tend to be far higher than those over here and teh suggestion is that they might well be somewhat over optimistic.

 

[Bob]

Thanks everyone, so it looks like there is no-one in the UK with one of these Rogue Tuning kits yet. I don't really want to be the first. It seems that many people are happy with the Promax version and it is significantly cheaper than the Klaus Hoffman one, which another thread hints it might just be a copy. I don't really want a custom remap as I don't think the extra cost is worth it for the minimal tuning I want to do, and my wastegate appears to be strong so I don't want to change that if I can still get around 300bhp with a bit less lag from a chip and boost valve

 

[George Elliott]

Well summarised Bob, and very similar actually to where I was thinking when I got talking to Promax back in 2002.

the Hofmann rich running frustrates me due to emissions and also bore wash in the early minutes of warmup.

Good luck
George
944t

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: Bob

Thanks everyone, so it looks like there is no-one in the UK with one of these Rogue Tuning kits yet. I don't really want to be the first. It seems that many people are happy with the Promax version and it is significantly cheaper than the Klaus Hoffman one, which another thread hints it might just be a copy. I don't really want a custom remap as I don't think the extra cost is worth it for the minimal tuning I want to do, and my wastegate appears to be strong so I don't want to change that if I can still get around 300bhp with a bit less lag from a chip and boost valve

Hi Bob

One of the great things about modifying cars is that there are many ways and levels of approaching it to achieve our goals. Regarding your comment above on waste gates, you may not be aware but one of the biggest and cheapest improvements that you can do to a 944 turbo is to upgrade to a dual port waste gate (DPW). It will transform your car, talk to Promax and I'm sure they'll advise the same. The original waste gate was designed (according to Porsche) to open before the car gets on full boost and thus make it a more passive car to drive, of course it's generally accepted that the real reason was to keep the 944 turbo's performance below the 911 turbo. 944's with a DPW and chip will out perform the 911 turbo of the day.
The DPW will hold max boost through all gears, you'll need a MBC ( manual boost controller) to set the boost and a chip to take care of fueling, add a 3 bar or adjustable fuel regulator and your on your way to the 300bhp that you desire.

Have fun

Pete

 

[George Elliott]

absolutely
can I add just, - think about a boost gauge - promax recommended it to me and I don't know how I would have managed with out it. (given the manual boost control capability - what else does one use to set it?)
George
944t

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

absolutely
can I add just, - think about a boost gauge - promax recommended it to me and I don't know how I would have managed with out it. (given the manual boost control capability - what else does one use to set it?)
George
944t

Spot on George, the dash gauge isn't accurate enough. Talking boost gauges I'd reccomend a stepper motor type that records your boost and can be set to give an audible sound when your preset boost level is reached.

Pete

 

[944Turbo]

Whilst I have no direct experience of Waynes work and have never met him, the off the shelf chips outperformed his custom maps on all the dyno days - Well with the exception of any input he had in Mark K's car (if any?). I was also concerned about the number of cars he modded that went on to blow a headgasket - several times in some cases so it wasnt an old rotton one. This may not be connected and down to other factors, I was always suspicious though.
Tony

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

Whilst I have no direct experience of Waynes work and have never met him, the off the shelf chips outperformed his custom maps on all the dyno days - Well with the exception of any input he had in Mark K's car (if any?). I was also concerned about the number of cars he modded that went on to blow a headgasket - several times in some cases so it wasnt an old rotton one. This may not be connected and down to other factors, I was always suspicious though.
Tony

Hi Tony

Good to see you mate, hope the family are well...... Now you know I'm going to disagree with you and this one....

http://944ukleague.wikkii.com/wiki/Turbo_League_Details

 

[DavidL]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

Whilst I have no direct experience of Waynes work and have never met him, the off the shelf chips outperformed his custom maps on all the dyno days - Well with the exception of any input he had in Mark K's car (if any?). I was also concerned about the number of cars he modded that went on to blow a headgasket - several times in some cases so it wasnt an old rotton one. This may not be connected and down to other factors, I was always suspicious though.
Tony

I had heard this too. I didn't repeat it here as I have no experience of either his work or the reliability of the source (and I don't recall that either, its been a while). Without doubt he does seem very popular with lots of tuning fraternities so there must be something in it, caveat emptor as always.

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: DavidL

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

Whilst I have no direct experience of Waynes work and have never met him, the off the shelf chips outperformed his custom maps on all the dyno days - Well with the exception of any input he had in Mark K's car (if any?). I was also concerned about the number of cars he modded that went on to blow a headgasket - several times in some cases so it wasnt an old rotton one. This may not be connected and down to other factors, I was always suspicious though.
Tony

I had heard this too. I didn't repeat it here as I have no experience of either his work or the reliability of the source (and I don't recall that either, its been a while). Without doubt he does seem very popular with lots of tuning fraternities so there must be something in it, caveat emptor as always.

To be fair I don't think a head gasket failing is necessarily down to the tuner. I've had two gaskets fail, but and it's a big but, the first was the original that was nearly 20 years old, the second was my fault, first I only replaced like for like and second I'd increased boost to 1.3 bar. Having learnt from this my next gasket was a cometic and performed without problem even when turning the boost up higher. Also remember that using the standard head studs at high boost these will stretch and possibly cause the gasket to fail. Hence why my current build includes Raceware head,main and rod studs.

Pete

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: PSH
Hence why my current build includes Raceware head,main and rod studs.

Will you be retorquing head nuts after the first heat cycle, as mentioned in the RW installation instructions, or try a different torque value?

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: TTM

ORIGINAL: PSH
Hence why my current build includes Raceware head,main and rod studs.

Will you be retorquing head nuts after the first heat cycle, as mentioned in the RW installation instructions, or try a different torque value?

Hi TTM

I'll follow Racewares guidance to the letter, after all they know their product best. Head studs TQ in three steps, 30,50,65lbs, run engine to normal temp, let cool down and then re-TQ 65lbs.

Pete

 

[944Turbo]

Had forgotten that run - sorry!
At the Jamsport day (going back a bit!) the guru chipped cars definitely outperformed the wayne mapped cars at similar boost levels - the guru sets came with a proper 3 bar fpr rather than a 'field modded' one as well.
Pretty sure Mike Batsch had a couple of head gaskets, and Gareth - but not certain his was wayned, there were a couple of others around the time. No doubt wayne had a good look at the guru coding - as did all the tuners so probably caught up again anyway!

Were you at Liverpool or Bournemouth? []

edited to add
Not sure if there is anyone better for a custom map in the UK though! at least not until the Barks944 dme is up and running - I am excited by this and almost tempted (given my lack of any action on doing a V8) to sort a standard lump for the coupe so I can play with it - assuming it will be available to others eventually!

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo


Were you at Liverpool or Bournemouth? []

Sorry Tony , don't understand the question, in what context?

Regards

Pete