Turbo "SE" designation

[Ewan]

I stumbled across this booklet from Porsche GB the other day. It uses the term "SE", so for those that deem that such a designation didn't exist, this should be interesting reading!

I appreciate that the Porsche factory may not have applied this term to the 250bhp variant turbo cars, but Porsche GB certainly appear to have done.

 

[DavidL]

ORIGINAL: Ewan

I stumbled across this booklet from Porsche GB the other day. It uses the term "SE", so for those that deem that such a designation didn't exist, this should be interesting reading!

I appreciate that the Porsche factory may not have applied this term to the 250bhp variant turbo cars, but Porsche GB certainly appear to have done.

 

[Ewan]

I seem to have done something wrong with the photo upload. I never know how that's suppossed to work. Help!

 

[DavidL]

Fixed that for you!

image not IMG

Interesting find.

Actually they are describing the S not what we were discussing as the SE!

 

[PSH]

I would agree with David that they are describing the Turbo S silver rose model

Pete

 

[GPF]

ORIGINAL: PSH

I would agree with David that they are describing the Turbo S silver rose model

Pete

Indeed, which would seem to confirm that the later 250 Turbos are just "Turbo"s.......

 

[DavidL]

Maybe we should refer to the S model as an SE then.
Anything after the S is just a turbo and the model year will determine the turbo and power output.

 

[944 man]

The confusion has always been due to Porsche calling the M758 car the 'Turbo S', whilst Porsche Cars GB called it the '944 Turbo With Special Equipment', abbreviated to 944 Turbo SE.

Had everyone used the same name then thered be no confusion or arguments about the name of the 1989> car: '944 Turbo'.

 

[scam75]

I read it differently and am surprised nobody else has. It designates all 250bhp cars "SE" with what we know as the "S" known as "SE Limited Edition". Limited edition being M758.

Look where it says maximum power, bear in mind this is 86-92 it's describing, it says 220bhp or SE 250bhp.

So from that I would assume that Porsche GB label all 250 cars "SE" whereas Porsche simply know them as turbo or turbo s but don't bother putting an s on the bootlid which just adds to the confusion although the log book says s on it. As we know SE does not appear on any log books but clearly this is because it's Porsche GB marketing speak and not what Porsche actually called them.

It at least explains the myth of the SE as far as I am concerned.

Stuart

 

[944 man]

In honesty, I havent read whats in the picture above as it wont display properly, so I will comment blind. My first real interest in 944s was sparked by the M758 car and I still have the Performance Car road test. In this and other period articles the journalists all carefully recite Porsche Cars GBs name for this model and it is '944 Turbo with Special Equipment'.

Theres no mention of its limited status in the name, it is 944 Turbo with Special Equipment. As soon as we start retrospectively adding addendums we are guilty of making up names, which is what has heppened to these cars for the last 20+ years.

I had a used M758 as a company car when it was three years old and the OPC referred to it as a 944 Turbo Special Equipment on the invoice.

The confusion was come about as people new to the models have tried to make sense of the Turbo S / Turbo SE naming disparity, caused by PCGB using a different name to that used in Europe and North America. Not realising that the S & SE were the same vehicle, they have presumed that the 1989> 944 Turbo must have been the SE, as it was a 250bhp model and 'it wasnt the S'. Unfortunately this oft-repeated myth is now difficult to shake, with people not prepared to accept that it is not so.

 

[944 man]

I can see the picture now. I believe that they have added 'limited addition' for clarity (although it isnt really providing that), rather than suggesting that this was the vehicles full name.

With hindsight - 944 Turbo S (S for Super) was a far better name and was in keeping with Porsches naming convention. 'With Special Equipment' was marketing fluff.

Ewan, Ive posted to this effect before, and so has Jim France, but people dont seem to want to hear it.


Simon

 

[DavidL]

Simon,
Its just a difference of opinion and on something that doesn't really matter. It's not a case of not wanting to hear it but not everyone is going to automatically agree with you.
You are always quite adamant about this subject which is your opinion and fair enough. There are lots of members with theirs to, doesn't make it wrong especially as this provokes quite a discussion every time it comes up.

 

[944 man]

I hadnt read anyone else comments David, so dont think that I was singling you out or referring to any other member particularly.

I do have a bee in my bonnet about myths and made-up stuff though... []

 

[os951]

SE is just for UK market. Rest of us had just S. Turbo S/SE is just for model year 1988 250hp cars. Newer were just Turbo's, since they didn't have all S/Se equipment as a standard option.
Same thing with 944 Lux, which was just 944 for the others. Same thing was with some other german brands, like BMW which use term Lux with some E30 cars on UK market, when they were something else for other european countries.

 

[Frenchy]

Nope !
My 88 Turbo S, MY 88 is a M758 vehicle, non sunroof exactly the same spec as a Turbo SE which i beleive is the Silverose, the Build Sheet from Porsche GB States "Special Order M758 Turbo S"
i think working things out by the info and things i have heard which add up is that Silverose cars are SE, Porsche later on in 1988 made a decision to sell the model in customer choice colour scheme after customers comments about the Studio Plaid interior.
There were 1673 Turbo S/SE cars worlwide 1000 of them being finished in Silverose colours.
Jim.

 

[944 man]

The point though Jim, is that the M758 cars were called S everywhere apart from here, where PCGB called then SE and it is this which has caused the confusion, with newer owners assuming the M758s are Ss, so presuming that SE referred to the later 250s.

I acknowledge that your non Silberrose M758 was described as a Turbo S on the invloice, but Im not sure that that is evidence in itself. Of course, PCGB may have decided to adopt the Super moniker with the later option cars.

 

[scam75]

Can opened, worms everywhere!!

I am pretty clear on this now chaps. All cars with M758 option are turbo s, regardless of spec or colour. This is how the world knows them. All other cars are just turbo all over the world too.

In the UK they are still turbo's and turbo s's however it's how Porsche GB marketed them that has caused this issue. Having carefully read the attached blurb, and as described earlier by my good self, Porsche GB calls ALL 250 cars SE and calls the M758 SE Limited Edition.

So my car is simply a turbo, but was marketed by Porsche GB as turbo SE, although SE did seem to disappear from the sales literature altogether from MY89 onwards..................

Clear................thought not!?! []

Stuart

 

[944 man]

I dont think so. Your 1990 model Turbo is just that, a Turbo, even though it is a 250bhp model.

The Turbo SE is whats Porsche GB called the model called Turbo S everywhere else.

Your car isnt a Turbo SE, even though thats what people have been calling them for years. The main reason that the mistake is perpetuated is that no one wants to give up their special name. If we were saying that it was actually really a Turbo Super Special Edition then everyone would have been very quick on the uptake!


Simon

 

[scam75]

Simon look back at the attachment, under technical information, this is where my point is coming from. It states that turbo's are either 220 or 250 SE, regardless of year. It clearly states that enveloping years 86 thru 91. Nobody is claiming my car is an SE, I have already said it is not despite what my signature may say!

It has been at some point though been marketed as SE by Porsche GB.

Stuart

 

[944 man]

I cant see it properly on this small screen Stuart, unfortunately. I do feel that (as was) current, carries more weight than a retrospective, though, if you see what I mean?

At the time they described their models in the way that Ive stated and it has been this that my opinion is based on.

I wish that there was an archive that we could access, which correlated .pdf copies of all brochues, price lists, hand books and such.


Simon