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TIPEC National Day Hatton Country Park

I very much regret having upset anyone but perhaps my comments come from a passion for The Club.

Let me put it in a different way, if you came around my house and said, "This house is rubbish, I much prefer next door." I would probably be upset then as well.

I have never personally experienced any animosity within Porsche Club GB for the 944, or any of it's brothers or sisters. Indeed until a few years ago, when it was overtaken by the Boxster, it was the largest Register within the Club. And Boxster owners have much larger crosses to bare than 944 owners because the the ill informed perception of the Boxster in society generally.

In any group of people you will always get some who are insecure/up them selves/have to think they are the best and will pick on anything to make them feel better. Just because they might have a 911 they might then Lord that over a 944 owner. In my experience these people are seldom well liked by others no matter what car the others may have. It is entirely possible you have come across such a person. They are often transient members who subsequently ditch the Porsche when they realise the World doesn't revolve around them and having a Porsche doesn't make them less objectionable than they are.

Of the many long standing members of the Club I know there is nothing but respect for the 944. Many members, if they don't own one now, have owned a 944 in the past. The whole, "I'm looked down on because I have a 944" thing as a myth within the real Porsche Club GB in my personal experience. If YOU feel bad because YOU feel less important because YOU "only" have a 944 there isn't much anyone else can do about that. There is no point trying to convince someone with a GT3 that YOUR 944 is better and then getting upset if they don't agree with you. That's just plain silly.

People may not fall over themselves to scatter petals in the path of a 944 at a Club meet because, within such a big Club covering such a large array of cars people have different interests. They may not be that interested in your 944. It's not a slight on you, or your 944, it's just they prefer their 3.2 Carrera/Cayman/Boxster what ever. Don't take it personally.

With regard to "The Club" not doing something specific for the 944 "The Club" would probably do what ever you wanted if you collectively demonstrated that you could deliver it.

It's no good saying we want a display of 300 944's demonstrating every colour and derivative if no one puts their name forward to commit. And don't blame Paul for not doing it because he knows what the response will be. It will be the same couple of dozen stalwarts who commit and the rest of you won't make a decision until the morning and see if they have something else to do at the time.
 
I think it would be a shame if a cheery chatty thread about a fun event heads off in an argumentative tangent but will lob my ha'penny's worth in anyway [;)]

Opinions are always good things as long as they are expressed in a constructive manner. Personally I think positive ideas from non-members are fine but it is always from the outside of the tent ****ing in and I do think the "get involved and contribute" mantra is the only one that really holds true credibilty. As for PCGB support for 944's is concerned I can see both sides of the argument to be honest. Yes all the front engined cars get a relatively short straw dealt to them within the club to a greater or lesser degree and maybe the Club as a whole should have made more of the 30th anniversary (though again to be honest its not a "special anniversary" is it like a 25th [very well attended at Silverstone Classic if I recall] - Is the 30th really any different from the 29th or 31st ???). Maybe playing the Devils advocate a tad there but my gut instinct is that its not really is it.

I also wonder how much of a groundswell there really is for events amongst 944 owners at present. Each year I go to Cotswold Rally, Silverstone Classic, National Event,Porsche and Polo etc and generally speaking there is the usual hard core of regular attendees plus the occasional smattering of a few new faces from time to time. Its always great to see everyone of course but its hardly a stampede of 944 owners at these events nowadays. At the Costwold Rally yesterday you could hardly move for silver Boxsters while there was just a handful of 944's, 2 924's, 1 928 and no 968's as far as I know. It never used to be like that.

Frontrunner, the event specifically put on for us along with our front engined cousins has been withering on the vine of indifference for some time now (though I must admit that I do feel that has been in part because of the time of year it gets held and it perhaps is in need of a major relaunch somehow) Other ideas about visits to Ireland/Lake District/Breakfast Club at Goodwood etc etc are rarely met with any huge enthusiasm or numbers wanting to attend.

It can all be a bit of a vicious circle of course in terms of no events/wrong sort of events/no one attending existing events but ultimately there is a limit to what can be done without people joining the club and then coming to the events and taking it from there.
 
ORIGINAL: John Sims


With regard to "The Club" not doing something specific for the 944 "The Club" would probably do what ever you wanted if you collectively demonstrated that you could deliver it.

It's no good saying we want a display of 300 944's demonstrating every colour and derivative if no one puts their name forward to commit. And don't blame Paul for not doing it because he knows what the response will be. It will be the same couple of dozen stalwarts who commit and the rest of you won't make a decision until the morning and see if they have something else to do at the time.

John, I refer to it as the club as that is what is is, its a collective term, not sure why you seem to have an issue with that. To blame once again non organisation of an event on members seems a shame. You cannot blame the registry members for not coming up with the goods when there hasnt even been an 'official' request, surely we need to be asked before we can say whether we can commit? I challenge you to find an official thread regarding the matter, the only ones are from the members who you continue to blame for not getting our finger out.



Edd
 

ORIGINAL: Copperman05

....... find an official thread regarding the matter, the only ones are from the members who you continue to blame for not getting our finger out.


Edd

As a thread is already in progress being contributed to by members of The Board http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=700321&mpage=1&key=display&#700321 why would you want anything more official? It isn't going to change how people respond, and the general response is very much on the lines I have suggested.

I disagree (politely) in respect of the club reference. You have a community (club with a small "c") of like minded people who share a common interest, as was Titanic, in the days of old. "The Club" in my reference referred specifically Porsche Club GB as a body, having employees, liabilities, responsibilities and objectives.

I assumed from your post that you wanted "The Club" to do something. My belief is "The Club" is sick of proposing things only to have "the club" do little to support it - as has been noted by Jon above.

In past years we have done some spectacular things, we had done layouts of cars which were colour co-ordinated and looked awesome, at Blenheim we had the Rat Pack (bit of a damp squib) but these we all because members of "the club" got on and did it.

As has been noted in the non official, official, thread Paul has enough trouble even getting people to volunteer to help park cars let alone park them in colours or anything more adventurous than that.

Jon is right again, 30 years isn't really much of an anniversary, in fairness.

However, a massive display of 100's of 944's all parked together is going to look awesome and I am really looking forward to it.


 
OK, I own up...my first Porsche was a 944S2.....[:)]

I will never forget the distinctive sound of the starter motor.....[&o]

And they are still great cars.....[;)]

ATB
Mel
911 owner [:D]
 
However, a massive display of 100's of 944's all parked together is going to look awesome and I am really looking forward to it.

We are trying to get a few more than 3 cars on display if you must know, its not much to ask, and after the last sarcastic comment I see no point in continuing this thread any further.


Edd
 
I certainly wasn't being sarcastic. In years gone by there have been displays of more 944's than I was willing to count. When I say "Display" it was the register parking; we made it a display.

Why have a "Display" of 20 cars and a parked line of 20 cars, when 40 cars together looks more impressive than either in isolation?

In past years we have had Porsche Strasse which were selected cars from each register; the red, white and blue display which were selected cars from each register. The only specific "displays" I can remember were:-

All the Boxsters parked together at Eyensham

The Carrera CS display, also at Eyensham

The 993 (or was it 964) RS display at Silverstone Classic year before last.

We certainly had a lot of 944's at Silverstone the first year we were there - was that a display or was it just that some of us got there early enough and, off our own backs, arranged the parking so all the 944's were together?

It can be done and is done by people saying "I will be there, what can I do?" It doesn't work when people say "I might be there." or, "I might be there if you are going to do something to make me feel important."
 
This is all bizarre. We've just come back from a weekend where the 944 Register was voted best at the event. Why more people didn't come I'll never know, perhaps people would explain why they DON'T come to an event? But, as it was a sell-out it's not really an issue.

The current event team are totally hampered by the decisions that are too far advanced to change, made by previous people. They are trying to do more, and at least it looks like we'll have a Register area at the national event. If people want, and that means bringing your car and commiting to the event, we can work out a display within that area. I'm up to three cars commited so far; one turbo, an early Lux and a late lux in reserve. I still don't have a SINGLE cab offered for a display of only THREE cars. Please, don't moan unless you are prepared to come forward and help!

That's my feeling, there's a difference between moaning, and constructive criticism. I welcome criticism, suggestions of how we can do things differently or improve things, and offers of help. I hate to see people just complaining, if it doesn't have anything positive to put forward.

It's complete shite to say PCGB looks down on the 944 Register. If anything, there's more cameraderie between the older, often cheaper, cars. It's the people who buy a new 911 as a company car, join the Club for one year and never attend anything, that most of us would "look down on", but we appreciate their subsciptions. Anyone who's actually been around the Club for any length of time will know that almost all the long-term members have had a front-engined Porsche over the years, and would tell you it was one of the best cars they've ever had. Can't we just stop this meaningless accusation?

Non-members? Yes, you have every right to use the forum, come to "open" events, offer criticism and suggestions, share your knowledge etc. In fact you're extremely welcome and the 944 community needs to be less divided IMO. Is it too much to ask that you don't run the Club down on it's own forum, or elsewhere for that matter? Just seems common courteousy to me.

Tipec membership IS less, but the reason I left was because it was non-existent locally, had no Registers, and the mag was only a few pages. That meant it was VERY expensive compared with PCGB for me. I know it's improved a lot in the last seven years, and many 944 owners are members of both. Why try to compare them, they are different Clubs. Choose one, both or neither, but make that decision personally, not based on crap you read on the internet, usually writtten by people who aren't a member of either.

Can we move on from this? It seems that you, Edd, have a real issue with the anniversary celebrations. Why not pick up the phone to the (brand new) Register Director rather than constantly complaining on the forum? You know the situation, we need cars to commit to a display if we're to get anything going at the National and you could always put your car forward?

We've been really let down by the lack of focus on Registers over the last few years, with no real input from previous Register Directors. That has now changed, but you can't expect it to suddenly be all perfect overnight. It seems we'll have an area at Chateau Impney, we now need a positive effort from the Register members to book the cars in. And, if you have an idea for something we could do based around the Register area why not suggest it? We have months to go to organise things.

Frontrunner could have been quite different this year, but what can you do if the people offering to organise it throw their toys out of the pram and refuse to continue to help? Calke Abbey will be a good day out, next year we'll do Frontrunner in a different way.

Let's put this to rest and move on, get the National organised and get some feedback as to what events YOU want us to organise in future. [&o]
 
I expressed agreement with the comparisons as a current paid up member of both clubs. That was based on
personal experience. The vitriol that criticism of PCGB seems to have engendered from forum officialdom is very worrying.

 
The vitriol that criticism of PCGB seems to have engendered from forum officialdom is very worrying.

I don't see it that way myself, assuming you mean me? The problems I have as RS are down to the lack of support from the previous boards. I've made no effort to hide that, in fact I've been quite vitriolic about it! Barry Smith will certainly confirm that he got very short shrift at a worker's conference, as we felt he was neglecting Registers.

I certainly don't see anything other than support for criticisms adn suggestions. There's really nothing you can do, however, if someone goes on and on about something we've answered as best we can, Directors are making an effort to help, we seem to have solved it the only way possible, and still the complaining is going on.

If you want to come to the 944 Register event at Chateau Impney then book a ticket, and book your car in for the 944 Register area. If enough people do this, we'll have an event. If no-one books, and no-one offers their cars, you can understand it's a bit frustrating for those of us who've been working on this for months now!

I was feeling really down about things, with a few people always having a pop, yet never picking up the phone and offering to help. After such a fantastic weekend we were really back on a high yesterday, and it's gutting to come home from work today to see that a thread rightly celebrating Tipec's hugely successful event, has turned in to another "the 944 Register is rubbish" thread. Why can't people be a bit more supportive and positive?
 
ORIGINAL: John Sims


at Blenheim we had the Rat Pack (bit of a damp squib) but these we all because members of "the club" got on and did it.

I still have my Rat and Sign - I reckon we should revive the Pack at a future event ! [:)]

For the record I really want Frontrunners to revive and am more than happy to help with that and other things. Will be at the National for one of the two days just not sure which as yet...
 
I've never had (4+ years) anybody ignore me etc because I drive a slightly scruffy 944 (even at 996 and 997 Register events I've been to).

I know most of the Directors of the club past and present BUT I do go to events and volunteer and I make sure I get my membership monies worth. I also know several TIPEC officials and have had pictures in PP and All Torque in the same month.

What Paul says is correct about getting commitment from us is a problem for him, I'm guilty as much as any!

I helped set up and man Autosport. Took pictures of PCGB and Tipec and 924 Club stands.

I did go to Rutland.

Enjoyed being able to park in the centre of the track at Donington Historic with 100 Porsches .

Dropped into the track day at Curborough organised by PCGB (John Lord)

Did the Cotswold Rally - with a video camera for the video that John is producing.

Will go to Region 8 Chatsworth event, Tour of the East Midlands, and take some pictures for the R8 and R9 joint meeting.

Hope to set up and man Silverstone Classic, but not all days. Last year did some time on the parking duties - at least you see friends turn up!

I hope to go to Chateau Impney, but as yet not certain which day, probably Sunday, and my car is not display suitable - sorry Paul.

What I think is that 944 ownership has changed over the years as the cars have got cheaper and the owners have less money to spare (for weekends away etc) and more in the way of time constraints., so I cant see the situation getting any better.

I am happy to be able to go to any event that is organised that I fancy and can afford (ÂŁ and Brownie Points).

I love being in the Club.



 

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

ORIGINAL: John Sims


at Blenheim we had the Rat Pack (bit of a damp squib) but these we all because members of "the club" got on and did it.

I still have my Rat and Sign - I reckon we should revive the Pack at a future event ! [:)]

For the record I really want Frontrunners to revive and am more than happy to help with that and other things. Will be at the National for one of the two days just not sure which as yet...

[:)] My rat lives in the car and Rick made us enough "Quarantine" signs that we could easily redo it. Would need new "Keep Out" signs so perhaps just stick with the Quarantine ones.
 
Bloody Hell, i only asked if anyone was going to Hatton Park [:D] Calm down lads, Paul has got a point you need to turn up and show support for things that are organised, why not suggest to Paul what you wish to do and then in turn will let the main club know waht the 944 section intend to do.
Pete (PSH) you have only just started getting back on the forum, stay with it as you have a wealth of knowledge.

Another point is that a few people replied to my original saying they would be there (Hatton) yet i never met any of you, we could do with making it easier to meet at events.

My Tuppence Jim.
 
Mike,
One of the first things i ask when talking to a 944 owner is if they go onto the forums, i saw Kingsdoken's car as i recognised it, one or 2 others seemed familiar, yet never meet anyone who comes on here.
 
we could do with making it easier to meet at events.

I met everyone at the Cotswold Rally, ticking them all off as they arrived at Gaydon. Sadly, by the time I'd finished everyone had wnadered away from their cars. Sorry I didn't get to meet some new people, but the cars looked great.

It's certainly a lot easier if you know people's names, forum IDs are one of my pet hates. That's you, A9XXC. [:D][:D][:D]
 

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

ORIGINAL: John Sims


at Blenheim we had the Rat Pack (bit of a damp squib) but these we all because members of "the club" got on and did it.

I still have my Rat and Sign - I reckon we should revive the Pack at a future event ! [:)]

me too!

National event this year is currently clashing with summer holiday, but trying to persuade my wife we should go earlier.

 

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

The vitriol that criticism of PCGB seems to have engendered from forum officialdom is very worrying.

I don't see it that way myself, assuming you mean me?

Not specifically, I was laboriously typing my reply on my phone before you had posted.

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
If you want to come to the 944 Register event at Chateau Impney then book a ticket, and book your car in for the 944 Register area. If enough people do this, we'll have an event. If no-one books, and no-one offers their cars, you can understand it's a bit frustrating for those of us who've been working on this for months now!

Sorry, but for me at least it doesn't work this way. Let me put it into perspective for you. I am a member of four car clubs, three of which have events that weekend. Two of those clubs have specifically invited me to bring the car along and put it on their stand, with the added inducement of "please help, it will be raising money for worthy good causes". The third, PCGB, says "book a ticket, and book your car in for the 944 Register area. If enough people do this, we'll have an event." Or to paraphrase "there might be something interesting happening or you could be stuck in the general car park, give us your money and we'll let you know".

So... out of those three options which one would you choose? Right now it's a buyers market for car club events. I have far more events on offer than there are weekends in the year. I have no overriding loyalty to any club so I am going to pick the events that offer me the most. I am certainly not going to buy a ticket for something on the "off chance" when there are "sure things" elsewhere. Given the choice of a "Celebration of the 944" or a "general car show" I'll pick the 944 event... but I need to know it is happening.

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
another "the 944 Register is rubbish" thread. Why can't people be a bit more supportive and positive?

No, I explicity stated that the 944 Register was the only reason I stuck around. The point was that the wider PCGB needs to do better and give more support to the 944 Register. It will be interesting to compare and contrast what will happen next year as I believe that's an anniversary year for the 911.

As to being more supportive, give me a definite event I can support and I will try and be there but the shorter the notice you, the more likely it is that I will be committed to something elsewhere.
 
I happen to agree with John in his original post.

There seems to be a view that the Club is this thing that generates events that should cater for the members, at the end of the day us workers/officialdom are volunteers that have full time jobs, families and lives as well as our cars. We commit huge amounts of time coming up with ideas, organising events, fielding queries etc. BUT we are just volunteer members like everyone else and can't do this without the support of fellow members.

If members want events that aren't currently organised then maybe they could organise it themselves, they would soon find themselves with the support of others. Sadly most Regions/Registers are they same, there is a core of the same members that attend most events, help out and are active. Personally as an organiser I find it very insulting when those who don't join in complain and moan that there is nothing for them, maybe they should try getting off their backsides or open their mouths in a constructive way.

So ranting aside, I would say that I have never experienced car snobbery other from those who are snobs anyway and the vast majority of members are just Porsche fans and extremely sociable. I also think that the 944 Register is a credit to the club being one of the most, if not the most, active on the forum and one of the friendliest places to be.

One of the prime issues with Registers is always going to be the geographic separation of its members and in times when we are all watching costs then it is going to be harder to get everyone to come together too often given the distances involved.

It is also a shame that we couldn't make it to TIPEC I have always enjoyed it in the past, but this weekend was the first in some time that we have had a family weekend together having done Club stuff for the past three weekends and more coming up, so stayed at home and chilled.
 

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