The modifications continue - Manthey coilovers incoming...

[Twinfan]

Morning all

After some to-ing and fro-ing with my OPC I've just had confirmation that my Manthey coilover kit has been ordered and should be here in a week or so. Unfortunately they won't be on the car ready for Oulton Park next week, but as the weather is pretty miserable at the moment I don't think it's a great loss! The kit should be on and bedded in ready for Silverstone in July.

I'm no driving legend by a long shot, so I don't "need" the coilovers, but as my 718 GT4 is clearly my keeper car I'm making it the best it can be. It's an early manual gearbox Clubsport car that I specced myself with almost all options ticked except PCCBs and BOSE. It already has a Ninemeister lightweight single mass flywheel and inconel silencer that mixes the exhaust banks, Manthey braided brake hoses, Millers Oils Motorsport fluid, PFC V3 brake discs and 331/332 compound brake pads plus Porsche Tequipment bucket seat inserts. With the coilovers on it should be complete to my taste for regular road use and around 5 or 6 track days a year.

I'd thought long and hard about changing car before adding the coilovers but I just can't justify the cost to change. I would only go for something with the Motorsport 4.0 engine so that would mean:

1. 991.2 GT3 - manual option available, better chassis than the GT4, £50k+ to change
2. 991.2 GT3RS - PDK only, better chassis again, £100k+ to change
3. 718 GT4RS - PDK only, almost identical chassis to the GT4, £60k+ to change
4. 992 GT3 - manual option available, much better chassis than the 991 series, £80k+ to change
5. 992 GT3RS - completely out of the equation!

As the car has to be a manual, and I'd be wanting a substantial step up for the money I'd ruled out the three RS cars. The 991.2 GT3 is broadly similar to the capabilities of the 718 GT4 so the only real option for me would be a 992 GT3. However, I just can't see that I would get £80k of extra fun out of it compared to my car and I'm not interested in shaving seconds of whatever my lap times are (I don't record them) so I'm sticking with Wolfgang

I'll report back once I've got the coilovers on. TDT has been running the full Manthey MR package on his 718 GT4 and I know he really likes it, so I'm hoping for the same result!

 

[Motorhead]

A good call I would say Dave, especially since you want a manual ‘box(), and there’s the benefit of knowing your car’s provenance whereas a used example always carries some risk … especially on the GT cars!

Are you still able to run a Porsche Extended Warranty given your mods, although I assume that the Manthey bits will be OK?

It’ll be interesting to hear how the suspension mods work out … keep us posted.

Jeff

 

[Twinfan]

Cheers Jeff

I forgot to say in my last post that I'd also been hanging on to see if Porsche released a final hurrah 718R with the Motorsport 4.0 engine and a manual gearbox, as that would be my dream car, but with no more information having come out since the rumours early last year I figure it's not going to happen. So I'm going all in with the final mod to my GT4 which I love to bits.

I'm currently running the extended warranty on my car with all mods declared, even the Porsche camber shims! My OPC contacted Porsche GB with a complete list when I took out the policy and they confirmed I'm all covered bar the usual caveat that if a modification causes a part failure then I won't be covered. Since taking out a 3yr policy this time last year I've claimed for a failed PADM mount and an updated gear shift cable bracket so I've got my money back with 2 years still to go.

I was invited to a Manthey evening at my OPC last year and they have ordered the coilovers and will be fitting by them - using their Manthey trained technician - so they shouldn't affect anything going forwards and will just be noted on my file. That list just keeps growing I get on very well with with my OPC's service department, so if I do have issues in the future I'm sure they will do what they can to support any claims. The main mod from a warranty perspective is probably the flywheel, but given that I've run it for 14k miles now with zero issues whatsoever I think the risk of a problem is low. The exhaust is just a final silencer, so minimal impact to engine running, as the monitored catalytic convertors and GPFs are untouched. The car has not been remapped so it's full factory standard as far as ECUs are concerned.

-Dave

 

[ralphmusic]

Well done for taking the mods this far. I had a similar issue on whether to change cars and the alternative to adding the GTS was sell the GT4 and get a GT4RS but age (mine) and future likely use suggested otherwise aided by an insurance quote of >£3.5k....

The individual modifications probably don't add much but some will do. I had the 4RS underbody parts fitted and at Thruxton, Church corner is much less tense at higher speeds than last year so small changes can make a difference. You might want to try this mod when it's next up in the air.

For me a Manthey suspension kit would no doubt be better on track but as I will be doing less track days next year road use compliance is more important and maybe I will try the DSC route again as I have a lot of maps from earlier (including a wife comfort map) and it is less costly.

 

[AndrewCS]

Hi Dave

Great news, especially the positive - pragmatic approach of your OPC ...

I too used to have the same relationship with my OPC`s service personnel and technicians, if only they were also the sales team

 

[Motorhead]

Ah yes, I now remember you saying that you were covered by the Warranty for the PADM failure Dave. Just as well given the mount’s apparent frailty!

Interesting to hear that the brake upgrade has been noted and accepted, although I suppose that brake discs and pads aren’t covered anyway and it would be difficult to attribute a brake component failure to a failure elsewhere.

Jeff

 

[Twinfan]

Cheers Ralf. I've been a passenger in a GT4RS on track several times now, and while the car is faster due to the mega engine, I felt it was too much for the Cayman chassis. My mate who owns the RS loves the playful character and wild ride of it, I personally prefer a car that's more locked down. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice...

Re. the RS aero I know a couple of people who have them fitted and I'd do the same but my early car doesn't have the pre-drilled locating spots for them like the later cars do. Yes, I know they're easy to add, but I also have a lot of speed bumps my way which I'm already concerned about once I have the coilovers fitted! I'll see how I go with the standard aero first and maybe add them later.

And for road use my car is my replacement sportsbike, and my wife (also an ex-sportsbike owner) drives a Focus RS mk3, so we're both used to shall we say a firmer ride! It's not a daily driver so I can probably live with it with a couple of clicks knocked off the adjustable damping

 

[Twinfan]

Ha ha - I'm with you re. sales teams Andrew! I get on OK with my Sales Associate, but as I have very specific tastes, and he knows what I like, there are very few cars he can try and sell me and they're all GT products...

 

[Twinfan]

You're right about the brakes Jeff, they just get noted. Some people get very twitchy about it apparently, my Service Advisor was quite apprehensive when telling me, but given my list was already in place what's one more thing eh?

 

[MrDemon]

"The 991.2 GT3 is broadly similar to the capabilities of the 718 GT4" !

718 is 285bhp bhp/ton vs GT3 335BHP
420 Torque vs 460
0-100mph 8.3 vs GT3 6.7 seconds
That = 5 seconds a lap at Angelsey.

I love man maths vs justifing mods

enjoy the shocks TDT cars grips for ever.

 

[Twinfan]

Yep, the grip on T's car is great - he was kind enough to take me out in it last year. I'm looking forward to having them. I hope you enjoy your GT4RS.

Nothing to do with man maths on the mods. Yes the 991.2 GT3 is quicker but it's not night and day quicker. Ask T

 

[MrDemon]

5 seconds a lap on a UK track is night and day in my book TDT would agree I bet. He hates letting cars past on every straight. . Shocks really don't gain you that much time, unless you start to abuse the curbs more and can already push the car closer to it's limits.

GT4 RS oem is what 7.09 full ring MR kit is £55k and gets a Pro 7.03 !! that's 6 seconds in 13 miles ! 0.45 seconds per mile :-( for £55k !

or if you want to gain 16 seconds at the ring, you can move from a 718 GT4 to a 991.2 GT3. that' much better value for £50k imo. Sadly it is night and day with the 2 cars. Even if you had a PDK 718 GT4 with FULL MR kit and a 460bhp remap, both the 991.2 GT3 and 4RS would till be faster STOCK !

 

[Twinfan]

It's all academic as for me personally 5 seconds a lap quicker round Anglesey doesn't mean more fun and enjoyment. If my car is the same speed with the coilovers as it is now but more stable and planted then that's all I'm after. For way less than £50k+

 

[MrDemon]

I always wanted a gearbox rebuild in my 718 that's say £12k, for me that would add fun to them. It will feel great though, better shocks always do, as we both know TDT's car is amazing, but I went out with Grant in his "Stock" yellow GT4 and he is just faster than me or TDT, that's life.
I would say on track the 4RS will scare the life out of me, but that can be fun ;-P I'll take you out in it.

 

[Twinfan]

Yep, Grant is very quick which is why he's started racing. Top bloke

 

[TDT]

Ahem… I’d say my pace vs Grant is very much circuit specific! , and he does have many many many more years on me.
Lol I'm sure he'll get to read this!.

As for the modifying journey... have to say congrats Dave, and also you're welcome.
I think I should be getting some kind of ambassadorial compensation or recognition from Manthey by now, for the amount of kits I've 'sold' for them.

I completely understand the 'dilemma' you've been through, and the path you've chosen really does provide the best overall package for you especially as you do want to stay with a manual gearbox.

My experience is that the upgraded chassis package is of most benefit at circuits which are bumpy, or technical or have a bit of movement in the surface, where it really helps keep the car calm and allow you to make the most of the power you have and grip.... so places like Oulton Park, Castle Combe, Thruxton, Goodwood, probably Cadwell, and obviously the N'Ring.
I was at Castle Combe last week with the club and for the one dry session we had... I had a little spar with some Porsche Club Series and CALM racers that were there in their own 718 GT4.... their words were that they ''couldn't follow my pace' from start/finish, through Avon Rise and into Quarry. They said their car wanted to take off with all the bumps, at the speeds we were doing, whereas mine just looked planted and composed.
They had a good poke around in the paddock (50K fine incoming for touch another's car lol) and we had a great chat.

As for GT4 vs GT4RS vs GT3..... It is basically a money game. If you want more HP - you have to pay to play.
MrD is right that really no reasonable amount of engine modification to a GT4 is going to match a 4RS or GT3 with the factory DGG engine down a long enough straight...so kinda have to pick your battles.
The gap is smaller on small technical circuits and larger on open GP circuits (say Silverstone or Spa).
But I think that I can say though that I've become decent at keeping most of those cars honest, and drawing out actual drivers - So I push hard in cornering, braking and on exits.. and then for the drag race down the straights, it will be - what it will be... but we'll know, that really, its the extra 80hp that has saved them! lol.

Personally I've had a 2 year plan for my 718 MR which will elapse in August, and then may I have a decision to make.

1 - I could stand pat and continue to enjoy my car as-is, relatively 'cheaply', as it wants for nothing.

Full MR kit + some extra Cup/Clubsport bits + Surface Transforms.​

I can then maybe have a play at a few race events.​

2 - or jump into 4RS as this the best/most cost effective way to get a DGG engine today:

I have a cover on an Autumn 4RS build so could go that way,​

or pick up lightly used 4RS at a slight discount vs a new car (as it will have been PPF'd and OTR'd etc already)​

​

The issue though is that I don't know that I'd be having £50-60K more fun on a track day, than I would be having in my 718 MR...., and if I'm getting upset with 4RS chassis, I'll be spending more to get it tamed again. Sounds like I'm chasing my tail.

991.2 GT3 is falling out of the list for me as they are older now and still holding value very well but I'd rather a new(er) 4RS for a little bit more money... more immediate and evocative drive right from first few meters... don't have to be going fast to get the goods.
991.2 3RS... same car as 991 GT3 but just even more expensive!
992 GT3 is technically brilliant but seemingly massive both in perception of size/volume and cost... and again needs speed for the excitement.

 

[Twinfan]

Cheers T, as you know we have very similar thoughts on the same cars having spoken about the "dilemma" several times - and as you say:

"The issue though is that I don't know that I'd be having £50-60K more fun on a track day, than I would be having in my 718 MR"

Fun per pound the non-RS GT4s are fantastic value, and if you pockets aren't massively deep (like mine aren't) it can be quite difficult to justify spending a lot of money just to go a little bit faster. A simple few chassis tweaks, plus the not-quite-so-cheap coilovers, is my limit I think and at a cost for the car that I'm comfortable using as intended.

You've just gotta love a well sorted Cayman, haven't you?

 

[Twinfan]

A quick update - the Manthey package has arrived at my OPC and I'm booked in for fitment at the beginning of June The package consists of the coilovers plus their toe rod kit for the front which we assume is to allow plenty of thread for their settings, a safety measure.

I was at Oulton Park on Tuesday and the car was as great as always, but I did have that feeling that it was a little soft in the higher speed turns - particularly coming over the top of Clay Hill where the cars goes light then compresses. I'm hoping the coilovers will control the rise and fall better which will increase my confidence.

I'll be back there in July (the week after Silverstone) to find out...

 

[TDT]

Looking forward to seeing how you get on with these Dave.
With a proper set up, the car will be a very accomplished weapon, especially around a twisty, technical circuit like Oulton Park.
I can definitely attest to the fact that you will experience much better control than the standard equipment. You'll need to learn to lean on it to get the full benefit, and the confidence to do that comes with more seat time and a little bit of experimentation.
I fielded a decent number of compliments on how fast, agile, planted and composed my car looked on track on Tuesday. Great cars.

 

[Twinfan]

Cheers T, I think the increased control and grip will give me the confidence to lean on the car more. At least that's my hope anyway! As standard it just seems a bit soft although that doesn't stop some people pushing the car hard - the ones I'm thinking of have a LOT more track years and seat time than me though so experience really helps of course.

Your car did indeed look super planted last week, plus your pedalling wasn't too shabby either