Stripping out 944 turbo

[u63af]

Just seeing your guys thoughts on partly stripping out a 944 turbo. the car is in vgc with Mint condition cream leather sports seats. I am considering taking them out and putting two bucket seats in so that it would be better for track days.

Would I be an idiot doing this to a good example of 1990 turbo? I am wanting to modify engine and susp anyway but was slightly worried about re-sale.

Would there be any takers for my leather seats if I did do it?

 

[zcacogp]

You'd be an idiot if you stripped the car out for track days and didn't keep the old seats, so were unable to return the car to standard condition ... []


Oli.

 

[DavidL]

If they are cream leather sports as you say, in good condition, I'd be very interested.
If they were heated I'd be even more interested!!

Ah you're in Perth - ah well could always bring my red turbo to see yours!

 

[edh]

Depends how extreme you get, but if the car is going to get lots of track use, then it will benefit immensely from losing weight. Peter Empson, Neil H and 944man are the lightweight specialists - Peter's car goes very well in S2 n/a guise - fast enough to keep with mildly modified 250 turbos around Silverstone (maybe that's just because Peter is a driving god? [] ) Neil put up a thread where he listed all the weight savings when he stripped his S2.

I think there's a market for track-prepped cars, so not sure if you would lose anything really (apart from maybe the cost of the new mods). If you do much more than remove the seats it becomes much more difficult to go back to standard. I think a 1200kg turbo would be a great track proposition. (and if my work picked up a bit that's just what I'd be doing...)

There's certainly a market for the sports seats - a black set on ebay at the moment for £500. Bridge spoiler hatches are very desirable (£350-400 ish), so may pay for a Lexan replacement - Peter has a very nice one. If your front wings are good, then Oli might like to buy them [][] fibreglass replacements aren't a massive weight saving, but it all helps

 

[u63af]

Yeah,
I saw the other seats on ebay for £500 (with another £100 postage). I think mine are the heated ones, all electrics work in seats and as I said they are in very good condiotion. What weight will my car be standard? I am wanting to use the car to put decals on for my new website I have started to help with advertising etc. Hopefully wont need to sell it [] in near future. Wanting to get about 350 bhp which would prob be pretty quick if it weighed 1200. []

 

[edh]

350 will be very quick - what mods are you planning ? I think that a lighter car with 300 (and 300+ lb ft) may be as fast as you need - coupled with good suspension and tyres. Weight loss is certainly cheaper than horsepower...

I think a 250 turbo is IRO 1400kg - other quick wins include aircon compressor (leave the pipework in if it is leak free - re-fitting is a pain) and spare wheel.

 

[944 man]

Id suggest keeping everything and storing it well. For the seats Id make a packing case.

 

[u63af]

Not sure what mods i need to do to get to 350. Was looking on vitesse at some of their packages but it is ££££££££££££. May consider speaking to someone about a standalone ecu. Then I could change what I needed and have it mapped accordingly. In the meantime I would be happy to get about 300ish. I already have tial dpw, promax chips and uprated fuel reg but will be changing exhaust for 3". hopefully will be about 300 at 17psi with that (fingers crossed). I have always had the tuning disease which started off when I got my old porsche 924 turbo 7 years ago when i was 19.

Ed, did the stuff you bought from vitesse make a big difference? I take it you have their chips if you have the 72lb injectors?

 

[edh]

I have the Vitesse MAF & chips (won't work with normal motronic chips). John won't waranty his setup with standard injectors. I used to have a "stealth" setup, retaining the airbox, and now running with a J-pipe & filter. I don't think MAF gives you massive increases on its own, but it does allow you to run different levels of boost and different turbos. You do get a faster spool, and I was generating a bit more power (although a boost leak on the power run meant that the top end tailed off). The 26/8 is now the limiting factor - not sure I'm going to get much over 300bhp from it, even holding 15psi. Road manners are a bit better, but you're never going to get great throttle response from a turbo. Fuel consumption is also improved - not sure how many miles you need to pay back the cost.

If I was doing for a track car, I'd probably spend the £1k somewehere else I think. Maybe keep the AFM & get a trick turbo + chips from Jon Mitchell / Simon Peckham

 

[Diver944]

If you keep the seats then there is absolutely no worry come resale time. If the car is converted sympathetically into a lightweight track special then I still think you would be able to sell it, as the 924/944/968 are becoming well known as very good track cars. Success in the club race series helps this and there are now quite a few track specials just in the club forums alone.

1200kg and circa 350 with a very good suspension setup would be an extremely accomplished vehicle in the hands of a good driver. Getting down to 1200kg will require a lot more than simply replacing the seats and you may have to pass the point of no return at some point - eg fibreglass panels, lexan hatch and lack of interior

350bhp would be just about in reach with a new turbo and a larger exhaust with your current setup, but you'd have to raise the boost by a fair bit

 

[MarkK]

I reckon that a well specified,well presented turbo/s2 track car with bills, done nice,by people that are known will always sell as is,seen a couple sell on pistonheads quite quick if anything i think in some cases they sell quicker than a standard road car,just needs to be sold at the right time of year at the right price.A turbo stripped out tastefully is a great idea and i reckon would be scary quick without doing crazy horsepower,300 in a really light car with proper suspension on R tyres would go really well.....[8|]

 

[Suffolk944]

300bhp is relatively easy/cheap to get - heading towards 350bhp is much, much more expensive. Would also go with the idea of sticking at around 300 and shedding weight as the best strategy to start with at least.

 

[Hilux]

300bhp and 1300kg = 230bhp/ton, plenty quick

All you have to do these days is research the competition regarding power to weight ratios, you will be amazed at how heavy modern cars are and how *cough* competitive your car will be.

 

[edh]

- so just think what 350 in 1200kg is like []

 

[DavidL]

Sandy,
I think the advice above is sound, change the seats by all means but store the originals so they can go back in.
If you decide you really don't want them then please do let me know.
Alternatively since I have decent comfort seats in the same leather if you wanted a swap with some cash your way (sports are worth more) to free up some money for the mods but still leaving you with a good set to go back in I'd be interested in that too.

 

[PSH]

The early 944T's according to Porsche have a kerb weight of 1285kg IIRC, they are lighter than later cars. The cars that raced in the Porsche Michelin cup until they were banned weighed on average 1000kg with a power output no more than 260bhp, this was enough to beat the 996 GT3 on many occasions.
As you can see from my signature below my car is far from standard, has normal weight and is fast... very fast... bring it on mr 911 I say...hehe

[8D][8D]


Pete

 

[u63af]

Leaning more an more toward stripping it out.
David,
I would be willing to sell the seats as I dont have much space at the moment and I want cash to do the mods. Only trouble is postage [].
Thanks for the help guys, dont want to go too crazy with stripping but happy to remove a/c as it doesnt work anyway.
Cheers
Sandy

 

[PSH]

happy to remove a/c as it doesnt work anyway

If your going to remove the A/C Sandy try Lindsey Racing for their A/C replacement belt and bracket that allows you to get rid of the A/C compressor.

 

[edh]

Doesn't an alternator bracket from a non-ac car just bolt on? I can see that in the US more of the cars may have had a/c, so these may be rare over there, but most n/a 2.5's should have them in the UK. Belt would then be the non-a/c belt 750mm?

I have one (and am keeping it if I ever do an a/c delete [])

 

[Neil Haughey]

I would start at the simpler end and take it from there, weight loss is very addictive but something like my race car is also very extreme, probably much too extreme for many ppl.

Easy stuff: Rear seat back, rear seat belts, tools and spare wheel - ISTR 30+ kg in that lot
Not as easy but not that difficult: Lift the front footwell carpets and lift out the floor sound deadening pads and the sound deadening on the firewall - ISTR about 10Kg in there.

Lightweight battery as well can easily save 10+ Kg.

As said above I weighed everything I/we took of the car, its fairly easy to loose some weight, once you get into the seats you should be able to shed in the region of 70 to 80 kg in total from the car. After that the car starts to become much more extreme because you will be ditching nice things like the stereo, all the carpets, A/C if the car has it etc. Personally on a car used on the road I would keep all that stuff but still look to save as much of the 70 or so Kg as possible. One of the things that stood out for me from my Part Weights thread was that the basic trim in the car such as the headlining weighs very little, and there is a lot of easy to remove items that add up to a fairly significant amount of weight. Some of the big heavy items are much more difficult to deal with unless the car is a race car, such as the doors and torque tube.

Carbon fibre bonnet and wings would of course be [8D], but also plenty of wonga to sort and could cause insurance "issues".